AF's 2nd all time leading RB booted less than a week before graduation

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Luigi59, May 19, 2012.

  1. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    http://espn.go.com/college-football...ns-asher-clark-kicked-academy-amid-drug-probe

    It's never finished until you walk across that stage and they hand you a diploma and a commission. Until then, you are still in jeopardy of being dismissed for a conduct and/or honor offense.

     
  2. michigander

    michigander Member

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  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Important reminder to everyone that until you raise your right hand and take the oath as an O-1 nothing is guaranteed, even as an AFA cadet.
     
  4. falcongirl

    falcongirl USAFA grad

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    The offense happened a few months back. It's a wonder that the process (for a drug case) took so long...
     
  5. stvblm

    stvblm Member

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    @pima- Whether or not he was already sworn in is irrelevant. Its a drug offense not some minor conduct infraction. Zero tolerance on drugs no matter who you are.
     
  6. LFry94

    LFry94 USAFA C1C '17

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    That is very unfortunate. A hard lesson learned.
     
  7. usafamomma

    usafamomma Member

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    What will happen to him? Will he have a $173k bill due to uncle sam? Will he move to the enlisted ranks and 'work' if off? Declare bankruptcy? It seems they allowed him to complete the semester...will he transfer his credits to some other college and get a degree?
     
  8. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    The debt is classified as student debt so bankruptcy will not be able to wipe it if he is stuck with the bill.
     
  9. mhc123wc

    mhc123wc USNA 2015

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    USNA's QB Proctor was also kicked out a few months ago but for honor reasons...
     
  10. cadet15

    cadet15 Member

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    I hate to use these two young men as examples, but for all of the appointees and kids looking to come here, remember that you are not invincible. Anything can happen. Just because you are well known or high ranking within the cadet system, doesn't mean the system will save you or you are exempt from anything. For the appointees, enjoy your last weeks and remember the feeling that you had when you received your BFE so that when a situation comes up potentially, you will have something greater to fall back on. Remember why you want to take the oath and come here. Don't ever forget that, even after you walk across the stage at graduation.
     
  11. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    According to the newspaper, the offense happened in March of 2011 (14 months ago!)- more than enough time to complete an investigation that would have either convicted or exonerated him before football season.

    Seems that the SAs drag their feet when it comes to adjudication of star football players who commit offenses in the off-season, lest it upset the depth chart.
     
  12. soccergirl919

    soccergirl919 New Member

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    Timeline starts when it was reported, not when it happened. Does anyone know when that was?
     
  13. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    I'm not quite sure I agree with your generalization here...only because I have seen how long military investigations have taken in the AF in the past...but...I also know that I've seen some investigations take very little time.

    My "guess" and I empasize that; it's a "guess" is that with the number of cadets being investigated, the "OSI/Powers that Be" were being very thorough and "dotting the I's, crossing the T's..."

    What I AM curious about is: there were reportedly 31 +/- cadets being investigated for this "spice" incident...what's the status of the others?

    THAT I have not been able to determine from any of my official sources. I'm sure we'll be getting an official briefing/paper on it VERY soon; if I'm able to release anything, I will.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  14. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    A "little more" information...but not much...

    "...The academy’s investigation into drug use expanded to involve 31 cadets, and the academy announced that some were involved in intercollegiate athletics. The academy announced in mid-January that 15 cadets were suspected of using a banned substance other than alcohol, tobacco or drugs prescribed to cadets.

    In late April, The Gazette reported that of 19 completed investigations, eight cadets were cleared of wrongdoing, three cadets were disciplined, four cadets were in the process of being punished and four cadets were awaiting word from the commandant on whether they would be punished. The academy didn’t provide an update on the investigation Friday."


    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  15. YorkieMom75

    YorkieMom75 Member

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    I don't want to jump to conclusions based on what the (sometimes) biased media reports. As a DA Civilian who just attended mandatory drug and alcohol prevention training, it is "illegal" in the military to take someone else's prescription drugs (or take your own when the Rx has expired). The percentages of this being common were higher than I expected them to be. Some athletes play through pain, and it would not surprise me if they shared an Rx they weren't supposed to (quite innocently or even knowingly), even though it is a controlled substance. But when we read "illegal drug," we assume it's cocaine or meth or pot.

    Flieger83's post calls it a banned substance. The online article called it illegal drugs. We tend to jump to conclusions about what that substance is based on all the other news we read about college and pro athletes.

    Also, Service Academies have extremely strict standards on everything, and based on my own experience, probably have regular urinalysis tests that are now pretty sophisticated and can detect anything. Zero tolerance really means zero. Other colleges probably test their athletes a lot less. Just like with honor, the standards are much higher.

    So when the media gets a story like this, they tend to be ambulance chasers. Even more reason for USAFA to take their time with an investigation. The stakes are very high for these cadets. As a parent of a cadet, I would expect and want a fair, impartial, and thorough investigation -- with my son/daughter presumed innocent until proven guilty.

    Also, USAFA has been through a lot -- a sex scandal, suicides, now this. It explains why they are so careful with their selection of resilient HS students to enter the freshman class.

    Anyway, I just wanted to say that there may be more to consider in this story than is on the surface.
     
  16. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    In this case we know what is was. A drug known as "spice."

    Synthetic marijuana, often marketed as "herbal incense."

    According to news reports, he claimed he was "passed a pipe at a party and thought it was tobacco.

    :lolatyou:

    I mean really, have you EVER been to a party where a tobacco pipe was passed around, EVER?

    Military civilian, hippie, etc - use common sense, no one shares their tobacco pipe.

    Don't be mistaken, there will be plenty of knuckleheads from the Class of 2016 (from EVERY Academy) who will be booted for doing something stupid, just as every year in the past.
     
  17. YorkieMom75

    YorkieMom75 Member

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    "I mean really, have you EVER been to a party where a tobacco pipe was passed around, EVER?

    Military civilian, hippie, etc - use common sense, no one shares their tobacco pipe."

    Luigi,
    Didn't know it was SPICE. You are right, I must agree.

    Geez, the answer to your question is NO. Don't even like parties where they smoke (regular) cigarettes. I don't understand the whole aerosol can spray thing or the bath salts either, but then, I think I'm in the "old people" category now. Common sense rules.
    YM

    PS. What's a hippie? (just kidding . . . . )
     
  18. agolson

    agolson Eagle43

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    Maybe he thought this was a hookah lounge party.
     
  19. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    USNA had their own "spice" issue last year. From what I understand, the substance is difficult to detect in the urine; there is a test, but it's complicated and/or expensive. I heard that the way they nabbed folks at USNA is that the "dealer" kept meticulous records.

    I wonder whether, because the substance is reportedly difficult to detect, the cadets and mids figure that, unlike marijuana, they can use it and not get caught. Or, more likely, the idiot passing it around is telling them that.

    It could be that the investigation took awhile b/c they can't simply rely on a drug test the way they do with most banned substances. I seem to recall the USNA investigation which, to my knowledge, did not involve any high-profile athletes, also took a lot of time. If you have to rely on interviews and documents, the process can drag out because of the need to build a case, to see who's lying, to "turn" witnesses, etc. And, people are considered innocent until proven guilty.

    These two examples (USNA and now USAFA) and the consequences for those found guilty should serve as an object lesson. Unfortunately, they probably won't.:rolleyes:
     
  20. scraper

    scraper Member

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    They get briefed on this stuff all the time, cadets that is. I would not assume what happenedin March 2011 was the only incident and what happened in January quite likely had a bearing on this as well, other IC's have left the hill too, or that is the scuttle butt.....
     

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