After rotc

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by FOR GOD AND COUNTRY, Sep 20, 2011.

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  1. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY

    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY Member

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    Hello this post is for after college if I am a ROTC cadet. I know i will be an officer in the Army. My question is how I go about becoming a Special Forces Officer. I want to be a Green Beret or Ranger hands down. However, I do not know how to go about doing it. Also if I’m an officer will it be harder or easier to get selected? And I want to be a weapons specialist, not an engineer. If i major in engineering in college will I have to be an Engineer on the Teams? And last question. What's the recommended major i get in college if i want to go into Special Forces?
     
  2. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    You need to focus on your 25 meter target first. Joining ROTC. Then focus on graduating and commissioning. Then worry about being successful in your branch. By that time you should have a general understanding of how to attempt to get into the SF branch or Ranger Regiment. You can not even apply for SFAS until you are a 1LT(P). Also, you won't be a weapons specialist on a team as an officer. You will be the Team leader.

    If you won't be happy in the Army unless you are in the 75th or SF, I'd suggest not even joining ROTC.
     
  3. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Ok, a lot of new cadets come in with a run and gun type of attitude consisting of : Rangers/SF or nothing at all. This attitude quickly fades as reality sets in or their experiences in ROTC change their perspective about career choice. That being said it is extremely hard to be an officer in the SF. The teams are almost entirely made up of NCOs. Are there officers? Of course, but the process is so difficult they don't really even use it as an advertising/selling point in ROTC. But by all means probe your local cadre to see what they know about selection, the Q-course etc.

    Rangers is a lot more doable in terms of getting a slot for the school especially if you branch infantry. However, actually getting into the 75th is another story and considerably more difficult. Tabbed? Maybe...Scroll on the left?...a lot of other factors come into play.

    Since I know of no young officer ( 1LT (p) minimum?) in SF I can't really comment. However, I don't think your major would matter at that point...foreign language always helps though...
     
  4. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Excellent advice.
     
  5. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY

    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY Member

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    Thanks for the help! I'm not trying to come off as if I only want to be a ranger/Green Beret. Also why is there (Ranger Tab) and the famous 75th Ranger Regiment. I understand that tabbed is basically a meaning that you passed ranger school, but does it mean you can be picked for the regiment? Thanks for all the help. I personally want to just kill terrorists when I’m in the Army, so whether I’m an infantry officer, or Team Leader, I’ll take care of business.
     
  6. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Sorry to be blunt but you really need to revaluate your reasons for joining the military.

    Not even sure what your asking in the above post.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  7. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Neither SF nor Rangers are looking for that. You don't need the military for that objective. You can be a criminal vigilante. I suspect this is just short hand for you wanting to serve your country.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am sure that you did not mean your post to come off as it did, and that it is more of a gung ho, thump your chest want to serve attitude.


    That being said, you will see that is not the attitude of the most successful officers. They are willing to go into the battle, but they want it to be the very last resort. They understand the dangers of battle and do not openly search for it.

    As others have stated, it is great to have an ambition to motivate you through college and when you attend these specialty schools, but you will need to understand the motto SERVICE BEFORE SELF.

    People will tell you that as an officer to be promoted you will step out of your career field from time to time. That is why being an officer is 1st.

    You know what they call a 2nd Lt. Ranger? 2nd Lt!
     
  9. Blake3348

    Blake3348 USMA Appointee 2016

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    In the book I am reading on Leadership by Bruce E. Barber, a former U.S. Army Ranger it was said that "There are officers who are Ranger qualified and then there are officers who have excuses as to why they are not Ranger qualified." I think this is a matra of the Army Infantry officers who are Rangers, so I can see the expectations set for Infantry officers are pretty high.

    Sorry, just had to give my two cents, being a Ranger is one of my ambitions as well. If you are interested, the book is called "No Excuse Leadership Lessons from the US Army Elite Rangers" by Bruce E. Barber.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Time out Blake.

    You are missing the point totally. You are an OFFICER 1st, end of subject! Have you asked Mr. Barber if he was addressed as Ranger Barber or O1,2,3...Barber.

    I understand Rangers and the difficulty it takes to get there. I lived at Ft. Bragg for 2 yrs and saw the black, red and green berets. My neighbor was a SEAL that went into Somalia for the Black Hawk Down.

    I also have 2 friends as AF officers that flew shuttles into space with NASA.

    Guess what they called our Seal friend? Commander!

    They called our AF friends, Col. not shuttle commander or mission specialist.

    When you go up for promotion boards, of course they will look at your career. Yes, they are going to give a nod/edge to certain fields. They invested in them, not 10 bucks, but probably more likely 10 million when it comes to training.

    This "There are officers who are Ranger qualified and then there are officers who have excuses as to why they are not Ranger qualified." is in every field.

    I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S. also is prominent in the Army.

    In the AF it is all about being a patch wearer (WIC), initial cadre, fighters or if you aren't flying you are cleaning bird poop off the runway.

    It is the inherent attitude to boast! This is what they were doing.

    Not everyone will go Ranger or will have the opportunity to go Ranger for many reasons.

    In no way am I trying to downplay their importance to the military, but I am saying a true, a truly true officer is proud of their branch, but they see themselves as an officer 1st, and that is always in their mind when they do their job.

    To enter and say this is my dream, is great, but guess what that dream is letter T and you have yet to even begun to recite the alphabet starting at A. This poster needs to get into a college. They will than have to shine as a cadet AND NOT FAIL out of college. From there their OML is going to have to be high, high, high, and that includes how they do during summer training.

    So before we discuss the path they need to do to become a Ranger and kill terrorists, how about we clear the 1st hurdle of getting in a college?

    Also for the OP, I have a funny feeling that by 2016 and than after completing the mandated schools for Ranger, by the time you get Operational, we will not be at the level of "killing terrorists" as we are now...I am betting it will be more like the 90's.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  11. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Being tabbed and actually being in a Ranger Batt are two totally separate entities. Tabbed means you are "Ranger" qualified and is essentially required by most infantry officers if you want a leg up in promotion. It is basically mandated that if you branch infantry you will at least attempt Ranger school.

    As a member of the Ranger Regiment it is considerably more difficult and they have there own ways of assessing officers candidates (and they are of course all tabbed).
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  12. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Aglahad summed it up nicely.

    For the original poster, consider this;

    First you will need to be accepted and enroll in college. Don't count on a scholarship, you may or may not receive one, it will be very competitive this year. From your previous posts you first interest was with the Marines, I would imagine you will be applying to both for a scholarship. If you do not receive one you will need to decide which ROTC you wish to join.

    If you choose Army and attend with a scholarship you will then need to keep your grades at a minimum to stay in the program and keep your scholarship, even if you do not have a scholarship you will be required to meet GPA and ROTC requirements to be able to move into the Advanced program your junior year and become contracted.

    During this time you will be competing with all the cadets in country in areas such as GPA, PT and later LDAC as well as your battalion OML. This competition will come to a conclusion with you being ranked on the national OML.

    That brings me to the next hurdle, you will also be competing to commission Active Duty, not everyone gets Active Duty, fall to low on the OML and you will be forced Reserves and that cutoff line will only be going higher in the coming years.

    Now for the next hurdle, you will now be competing for your branch. Infantry is one of the hardest branches to get, if your not near the top don't count on it, and don't kid yourself, it takes a lot of hard work and a little luck to be at the top. GPA will be one of the biggest factors you can control, next is your APFT scores, again in your control, LDAC, well, that's where some luck comes into play as well as your skill level.

    So now you ready to commission, if all the planets have aligned and you are high enough on the list to branch Infantry, the work is just beginning. You will now need to pass Infantry School, then get good fitness reports as a Platoon Leader, then it's off to Ranger School, again not an easy school to pass. Now become Captain promotable and you may, just may get the opportunity to apply and enter the 75th Rangers. You will need to be Captain promotable to apply for SF as well, one thing to remember, you do not need to be an Infantry Officer to apply for SF. I believe you can be a Officer in any branch and still apply for SF, this again is not an easy thing to do.

    As Aglahad said, once you complete Ranger School you are only Ranger Qualified, it does not make you a Ranger. Make sure you keep that distinction clear in your mind, refer to yourself as a Ranger and there will be many who will correct you quickly and not kindly.

    My main point here is that you have a lot of hoops to jump through before you get to that brass ring. Take them one at a time, you my find that you completely change directions once you start, many do.

    PIMA said it best, your goal right now should be becoming an officer in the US Military, whichever branch you choose. You are an Officer first and always, your branch is just what you do for a living.

    Just a question, have you applied for scholarships for any of the ROTC programs. If you have I hope you didn't use the "I just want to kill terrorists" line in your interview, you might want to tone that down a bit.

    Nothing is a guarantee when it comes to ROTC and the Military, you will need to be able to adapt to what ever comes your way.
     
  13. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY

    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY Member

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    hahaha sorry guys didn’t know it was a crime to be a patriot. And no I'm not just some kid who wants to hold a gun and fight; I’ve been training physically and mentally to be a spec ops soldier sine the 6th grade. I not only will become an officer in the Army, I will excel as an officer. With that being said will someone answer the question and tell me what it is Scout Leaders do and what kind of training (if different from enlisted men) they go through to become leaders of an ODA. As for the Ranger regiment, why do they give Tabs and what’s the difference between tabbed and being in the 75th regiment? Can ranger tabbed soldiers be qualified to join the regiment? If you can answer these questions please do so.
     
  14. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY

    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY Member

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    Thanks for the reply, that really was good information. And yes about my previous posts I did apply to both Marine and Army ROTC. I'm more focused on the Army though. If I major in Engineering in college will this hurt my chances to go Infantry?
     
  15. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    ^ "didn’t know it was a crime to be a patriot" Wow, if you equate killing terrorists with being a patriot, well, honestly I don't know what to say.
     
  16. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I think we did.

    A Ranger Tab is given when you complete Ranger School. Branches other then Infantry can apply for ranger school, usually combat branches. Joining the 75th Reg. is completely different, of course you will need to have completed Ranger school, but be aware completing Ranger School does not mean you will get into the 75th.

    As far as your other question, NO, I really doubt you will get anyone to discuss the operational details or specific training of members of the SF on this or any other board.

    As far as your training since you have been in 6th grade, that's great, understand once you start ROTC that training will not do much for you, it's a whole different world.

    There is such a small, and I mean small percentage of officers in SF that even if you are at the top of your game your chances are very slim.

    Honestly, if you are so dead set on being a Ranger and working towards SF, your best bet would be to enlist, your chances will be much better, still hard to do, but doable with hard work and a little luck.

    I would never claim to question your Patriotism, I just think you need to dial it back a bit, don't go into ROTC with that blazing across your chest, it will not serve you well.
     
  17. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    No, your Major will have nothing to do with your branch except with an engineering degree you may now have a better chance of branching Engineers if you wish. Plus you now receive up to an extra point on your OMS score for some engineering degrees.

    Something to remember, if your not sitting on at least a 3.5 GPA at the end of your junior year, I would not count on getting Infantry, and you will probably need an Overall E in LDAC. If all of this sounds new and a bit confusing to you well, you get the idea of just how hard it all is and how much you have to learn. It's a lot more then just being Physically and Mentally prepared.
     
  18. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Pretty much sums it up...Get an E....3.5 gpa or better...300ish PT score....superb PMS recommendations. From your posts it sound like you enjoy the thought of being an officer more what it actually entails. Even infantry officers do paperwork, counseling, briefs and excel spread sheets. Enlisting sounds more beneficial to your desires, but its your life and this forum is here to facilitate questions and answers...

    Good luck, there are FY OML charts around..its kind of a crap shoot if you are not top 10-25% because the army likes to have well rounded branches quality wise (i.e. Chemical/Transpo isn't stuck with the bottom OML). Some say 51% is an awesome spot to be because of branch fill rates and 49% is one of the worst.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  19. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY

    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY Member

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    We got a liberal here folks, and yes i think protecting America against terror is patriotic and if you don’t i really don’t know what to say to you.
     
  20. tonk002

    tonk002 Member

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    You need to cool it with the "I'm gonna go and shoot some terrorists" attitude.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
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