Air Force Academy Pilots
- Thread starter Lewis95
- Start date
Pima
10-Year Member
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As we all know in the AF timing is everything. Stealth XL 13-06 had not only a 22, but a Strike too, which I think were his top two choices. For other posters XL means Laughlin 13-06 is their class. Stealth's DS was the drop before this drop.
This was the total drop
T-38:
PO-328
F-15E Seymour
F-22 Tyndall
F-16 Tucson
F-15S Saudi
T-1:
C-5 Travis
C-17 Charleston
C-17 McChord
MC-12 Beale
HC-130
C-130J Little Rock
KC-135 Bangor ANG
KC-135 Reserves
KC-135 Fairchild
RC-135 Offutt x 2
U-28 Hulburt
T-6 FAIP
T-1 FAIP x 2
CBM (Columbus) OTOH had a 22 drop for Stealth's DS class, but this is what they got from the 38s for 06
F-16 x 2 (1 ANG)
A-10
B-52
T-6 FAIP
F-15S (Saudi Int'l)
Vance's:
T-38:
F-16 Kelly
F-16 Luke
F-15E Seymour
F-22 Tyndall
MC-12
T-6 FAIP
Saudi Eurofighter
T-1:
EC-130 x 2
KC-10 McGuire
KC-135 McConnell x 2
MC-12
E-3
MC-130J Cannon
MC-130H Hurlburt
KC-135 Macdill
KC-10 McGuire
C-17 Charleston
Hurricane Hunter
As you can see what others are saying getting fighters is no easy feat. Stealth's DS not only got a fighter, which because of his age will probably be converted to a 35 sometime in his career. Hence, we go back to timing is a big factor along with ability.
You just don't know when you are assigned to a UPT base and a class date what the drop will be like.
This was the total drop
T-38:
PO-328
F-15E Seymour
F-22 Tyndall
F-16 Tucson
F-15S Saudi
T-1:
C-5 Travis
C-17 Charleston
C-17 McChord
MC-12 Beale
HC-130
C-130J Little Rock
KC-135 Bangor ANG
KC-135 Reserves
KC-135 Fairchild
RC-135 Offutt x 2
U-28 Hulburt
T-6 FAIP
T-1 FAIP x 2
CBM (Columbus) OTOH had a 22 drop for Stealth's DS class, but this is what they got from the 38s for 06
F-16 x 2 (1 ANG)
A-10
B-52
T-6 FAIP
F-15S (Saudi Int'l)
Vance's:
T-38:
F-16 Kelly
F-16 Luke
F-15E Seymour
F-22 Tyndall
MC-12
T-6 FAIP
Saudi Eurofighter
T-1:
EC-130 x 2
KC-10 McGuire
KC-135 McConnell x 2
MC-12
E-3
MC-130J Cannon
MC-130H Hurlburt
KC-135 Macdill
KC-10 McGuire
C-17 Charleston
Hurricane Hunter
As you can see what others are saying getting fighters is no easy feat. Stealth's DS not only got a fighter, which because of his age will probably be converted to a 35 sometime in his career. Hence, we go back to timing is a big factor along with ability.
You just don't know when you are assigned to a UPT base and a class date what the drop will be like.
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I actually got PRK last month. If the eye surgeon determines your eyes are a good candidate for PRK or LASIK and you plan on going for a rated slot, then you will receive it Junior year. They need a while to evaluate your eyes after the surgery to determine if they're pilot qualified.
Cannonball
5-Year Member
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- Aug 28, 2013
- Messages
- 43
Hi,
I searched like Hornetguy said and this thread looked like the best fit for my question. Pima and Stealth it looks like your sons got fighters in pilot training. If I want fighters what do I need to do to be the best in my class? Does that mean being the best all four years at the AFA or is it just being the best at pilot training? How do you be the best in pilot training? Do they test your flying all the time or is it written tests or what? Sorry for all the questions but I want to be the best and be a fighter pilot.
I searched like Hornetguy said and this thread looked like the best fit for my question. Pima and Stealth it looks like your sons got fighters in pilot training. If I want fighters what do I need to do to be the best in my class? Does that mean being the best all four years at the AFA or is it just being the best at pilot training? How do you be the best in pilot training? Do they test your flying all the time or is it written tests or what? Sorry for all the questions but I want to be the best and be a fighter pilot.
hornetguy
15-Year Member
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- Jun 9, 2006
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The best play by play for UPT is here: http://www.vance.af.mil/jsuptjournal/index.asp
Pima's son is still in Phase 2 of training at Laughlin (not tracked yet).
The only effect USAFA has on UPT is that you may be able to get ENJJPT, which has a higher probability of dropping a fighter compared to the other training bases.
You need to be the best at UPT to be competitive for fighters; that includes written exams, airmanship tests, and flight commander ratings. Read the blogs as well as Raimius' blog at http://www.usafacommunity.com/forum/blogs/raimius/
Pima's son is still in Phase 2 of training at Laughlin (not tracked yet).
The only effect USAFA has on UPT is that you may be able to get ENJJPT, which has a higher probability of dropping a fighter compared to the other training bases.
You need to be the best at UPT to be competitive for fighters; that includes written exams, airmanship tests, and flight commander ratings. Read the blogs as well as Raimius' blog at http://www.usafacommunity.com/forum/blogs/raimius/
- Joined
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- Messages
- 3,950
Hornet gave a lot of good advice. I would add is that if you want to get a fighter is to take all of UPT seriously and work harder than everyone else. If your classmates study on Friday night and all day Sunday, then try and do some studying or chair-flying on Saturday, too.
Also, be a good classmate. My son spent many nights and weekends with classmates over at his house helping them with the things they struggled doing. One classmate really had a hard time flying and talking to the air traffic control and keeping it all straight. My son spent a lot of time pretending to be ATC and acting out pattern work with that classmate until they could grasp how to do it all at once. The squadron commander is aware of this stuff and it affects his report on you. The commander's recommendation is also a percentage of your ranking in your class.
Try and be a leader in your UPT class. Son was not an official leader since he had a couple of Captains in his class. However, when it came time to show leadership he stepped up. One example that I know of is that a few weeks into class the squadron commander was holding a BBQ at his house on Saturday night to welcome the new class. Some of son's classmates were planning to go to San Antonio for the weekend rather than go to the BBQ. Son knew that it would not be a great idea to skip the commander's invitation so he went over to each individuals house and convinced them to stay in town for the BBQ so that they would be there as a complete class.
Lastly, always be prepared further ahead than you are expected to be. Several times when there was an unexpected opening in the flight schedule the Instructor Pilots would be looking for someone to take a flight with short notice. Son was usually prepared for two or three flights ahead of where they were so he could easily slip in and take the flight when others in his class couldn't. That goes a long way with evaluations.
You will also need to do well at USAFA before you get a pilot slot. Read some of the recent threads and you will see that pilot slots are possible becoming more difficult to get. Good luck.
Stealth_81
Also, be a good classmate. My son spent many nights and weekends with classmates over at his house helping them with the things they struggled doing. One classmate really had a hard time flying and talking to the air traffic control and keeping it all straight. My son spent a lot of time pretending to be ATC and acting out pattern work with that classmate until they could grasp how to do it all at once. The squadron commander is aware of this stuff and it affects his report on you. The commander's recommendation is also a percentage of your ranking in your class.
Try and be a leader in your UPT class. Son was not an official leader since he had a couple of Captains in his class. However, when it came time to show leadership he stepped up. One example that I know of is that a few weeks into class the squadron commander was holding a BBQ at his house on Saturday night to welcome the new class. Some of son's classmates were planning to go to San Antonio for the weekend rather than go to the BBQ. Son knew that it would not be a great idea to skip the commander's invitation so he went over to each individuals house and convinced them to stay in town for the BBQ so that they would be there as a complete class.
Lastly, always be prepared further ahead than you are expected to be. Several times when there was an unexpected opening in the flight schedule the Instructor Pilots would be looking for someone to take a flight with short notice. Son was usually prepared for two or three flights ahead of where they were so he could easily slip in and take the flight when others in his class couldn't. That goes a long way with evaluations.
You will also need to do well at USAFA before you get a pilot slot. Read some of the recent threads and you will see that pilot slots are possible becoming more difficult to get. Good luck.
Stealth_81
Pima
10-Year Member
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- Nov 28, 2007
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- 13,900
As Hornet stated our DS will not be tracking for a few more weeks. Tracking is when you find out if you are going fighters, helos or heavies. In April he will have assignment night. That is where you find out your airframe.
As much as everyone will pound in your cranium how long the days are, and how little time you will have to socialize, people don't get it until they are there. Our DS was an F15E WSO dependent. It is seriously a lot of hard work, with ups and downs. Mentally your mind has to be in the game every single solitary day. If you have a bad sortie, you need to shrug it off and believe it was that one only sortie. Otherwise, you will never recover.
As an example, as fun as the cross country might be, it also means 12 full days of non-stop work. You come back on Sunday after a weekend of mission planning and you go back up in the air on Monday. Our DS actually due to weather cancels has been doing double turns this week. Again sound like fun, but it is a long day and as soon as you land/done with the debrief you are mission planning for tomorrow. Repeat the same thing the next day.
As Stealth stated show your desire. I know our DS has been in the squadron on Sat. I know he has studied with his classmates. We literally talk to our DS 1x a week for maybe 10-15 mins. As a parent that was hard to get accustomed to at first, but when you realize that if they are calling in the middle of the week it is rarely good news, than you are happy for the Sunday 10-15 min call.
Finally, you are not even clearing hurdle number 1 yet....an apptmt. There are so many hurdles in front of you, that you should place this on the back burner for now. Enter the AFA with an open mind of the limitless opportunities in front of you.
I.E. I am betting if you asked Hornet or CC's DS if Rand was on his scope at 17 they would have said no. I am also positive that it was not an easy decision for them to delay UPT for the Rand opportunity.
Delaying basically means WIC and probably TPS are not in their future at all, due to the fact that when eligible they will be much older. Hornet is a 10 AFA grad. He will be probably a 15-01 or 02 UPT grad, and by the time he has his 1st tour done, he will be an O4, or up for an O4 board. At that point he needs to think about making O5, and PME in residence, thus he will need to have a leadership job, not being a student again.
You see, if you are successful at AFA, than other doors open, more so than AFROTC. However, opening that door can close another later on. It is just not as easy as one may think. I believe Hornet knows a few classmates that took ED with a UPT follow on, but in the end they asked to have their follow on changed and never went to UPT. I am betting they too thought at 17 that the 22 or 35 was their dream, but the point is they kept their mind open to other opportunities. Not saying you aren't.
Just saying at 17 you see movies like Top Gun and think that is the life, when in reality it is nothing further from the truth. Yes, the flying part maybe, but when you are not flying you are working a desk job. You may fly 2 times a week, the other 3 is flying a desk. To make it to O5 you will have a desk job, you will chair fly, even as a fighter guy 5 days a week it will be at a desk most likely. The 3 O4s at SJAFB that flew F15Es and not picked up for O5, never stepped out of the airframe.
The fact is nobody here can predict what UPT will look like in 2018, let alone how many fighters will drop in 2019. Plus, one thing to understand when you track fighters is they all don't start with an F. AC130, B52, B1 also come out of the drops. You have to be willing to accept any airframe.
OBTW, just FYI in case you get the TWE. AFROTC also gives out ENJJPT slots. DS did not ask for ENJJPT when he requested rated, however 2 of the cadets in his det. got ENJJPT. They don't give out at the rate of the AFA, but they do indeed give out.
DS's commissioning class had 13 that requested rated. All got pilot, but 2 (1 RPA, 1 CSO-eyes). Currently, out of the 13, 2 have already been washed out or washed back at UPT. The 2 that washed back or out occurred within weeks of starting UPT at their bases.
In DS's UPT class. 4 or 5 are already gone out of a start class of 30. The 1st was gone within a matter of weeks. Busted academics, and never got in the plane. He was an AFA grad. The wash back was an AFROTC grad for busting the PT test. The last 2 were 1 and 1, AFA and AFROTC during the check ride phase about a month ago. The 5th either washed back or washed out, I can't recall. Didn't ask DS if they were AFA/AFROTC. Point is you can see in the UPT world they are equal opportunity when it comes to busting students. They don't care if you have a ring or not.
My final suggestion is if you do not have a PPL, get one now. AF allows UPT students to waive IFS (this is a school you go to at Pueblo prior to UPT) if the student has a PPL.
Hornet and I were discussing this the other day. There are two schools of thought regarding whether a student should request a waiver.
1. Don't waive it because you will graduate, and it will get you use to the AF way of teaching/grading. Additionally the controls are not the same as any old Cessna or Piper.
2. Do because IFS exists to bust students prior to UPT. Why take the risk?
JMPO, and now take that 0.0197543 cents and throw it in the circular filing cabinet.
As much as everyone will pound in your cranium how long the days are, and how little time you will have to socialize, people don't get it until they are there. Our DS was an F15E WSO dependent. It is seriously a lot of hard work, with ups and downs. Mentally your mind has to be in the game every single solitary day. If you have a bad sortie, you need to shrug it off and believe it was that one only sortie. Otherwise, you will never recover.
As an example, as fun as the cross country might be, it also means 12 full days of non-stop work. You come back on Sunday after a weekend of mission planning and you go back up in the air on Monday. Our DS actually due to weather cancels has been doing double turns this week. Again sound like fun, but it is a long day and as soon as you land/done with the debrief you are mission planning for tomorrow. Repeat the same thing the next day.
As Stealth stated show your desire. I know our DS has been in the squadron on Sat. I know he has studied with his classmates. We literally talk to our DS 1x a week for maybe 10-15 mins. As a parent that was hard to get accustomed to at first, but when you realize that if they are calling in the middle of the week it is rarely good news, than you are happy for the Sunday 10-15 min call.
Finally, you are not even clearing hurdle number 1 yet....an apptmt. There are so many hurdles in front of you, that you should place this on the back burner for now. Enter the AFA with an open mind of the limitless opportunities in front of you.
I.E. I am betting if you asked Hornet or CC's DS if Rand was on his scope at 17 they would have said no. I am also positive that it was not an easy decision for them to delay UPT for the Rand opportunity.
Delaying basically means WIC and probably TPS are not in their future at all, due to the fact that when eligible they will be much older. Hornet is a 10 AFA grad. He will be probably a 15-01 or 02 UPT grad, and by the time he has his 1st tour done, he will be an O4, or up for an O4 board. At that point he needs to think about making O5, and PME in residence, thus he will need to have a leadership job, not being a student again.
You see, if you are successful at AFA, than other doors open, more so than AFROTC. However, opening that door can close another later on. It is just not as easy as one may think. I believe Hornet knows a few classmates that took ED with a UPT follow on, but in the end they asked to have their follow on changed and never went to UPT. I am betting they too thought at 17 that the 22 or 35 was their dream, but the point is they kept their mind open to other opportunities. Not saying you aren't.
Just saying at 17 you see movies like Top Gun and think that is the life, when in reality it is nothing further from the truth. Yes, the flying part maybe, but when you are not flying you are working a desk job. You may fly 2 times a week, the other 3 is flying a desk. To make it to O5 you will have a desk job, you will chair fly, even as a fighter guy 5 days a week it will be at a desk most likely. The 3 O4s at SJAFB that flew F15Es and not picked up for O5, never stepped out of the airframe.
The fact is nobody here can predict what UPT will look like in 2018, let alone how many fighters will drop in 2019. Plus, one thing to understand when you track fighters is they all don't start with an F. AC130, B52, B1 also come out of the drops. You have to be willing to accept any airframe.
OBTW, just FYI in case you get the TWE. AFROTC also gives out ENJJPT slots. DS did not ask for ENJJPT when he requested rated, however 2 of the cadets in his det. got ENJJPT. They don't give out at the rate of the AFA, but they do indeed give out.
DS's commissioning class had 13 that requested rated. All got pilot, but 2 (1 RPA, 1 CSO-eyes). Currently, out of the 13, 2 have already been washed out or washed back at UPT. The 2 that washed back or out occurred within weeks of starting UPT at their bases.
In DS's UPT class. 4 or 5 are already gone out of a start class of 30. The 1st was gone within a matter of weeks. Busted academics, and never got in the plane. He was an AFA grad. The wash back was an AFROTC grad for busting the PT test. The last 2 were 1 and 1, AFA and AFROTC during the check ride phase about a month ago. The 5th either washed back or washed out, I can't recall. Didn't ask DS if they were AFA/AFROTC. Point is you can see in the UPT world they are equal opportunity when it comes to busting students. They don't care if you have a ring or not.
My final suggestion is if you do not have a PPL, get one now. AF allows UPT students to waive IFS (this is a school you go to at Pueblo prior to UPT) if the student has a PPL.
Hornet and I were discussing this the other day. There are two schools of thought regarding whether a student should request a waiver.
1. Don't waive it because you will graduate, and it will get you use to the AF way of teaching/grading. Additionally the controls are not the same as any old Cessna or Piper.
2. Do because IFS exists to bust students prior to UPT. Why take the risk?
JMPO, and now take that 0.0197543 cents and throw it in the circular filing cabinet.
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- Messages
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BTW a bit of history. Up until around '92 ish 75% of the incoming USAFA class had to pass the DODMERB pilot physical...by the time graduation came about, a number of those lost their pilot qual medical.
Now there is no % of the incoming class with pilot qual...so upon graduation, there are a limited number of cadets than can pass the pilot medical, and some of those don't want to be pilots...so for the most part everyone who passes the physical can go to UPT.
Now there is no % of the incoming class with pilot qual...so upon graduation, there are a limited number of cadets than can pass the pilot medical, and some of those don't want to be pilots...so for the most part everyone who passes the physical can go to UPT.
Cannonball
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2013
- Messages
- 43
Thank you all for the information. I will keep reading all of the links that you posted, hornetguy. I know that things might change but I am still setting my goal as a fighter pilot because you have to set your goal up high where you want to reach, not below it, as my dad says.
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- May 5, 2007
- Messages
- 294
Obviously things change all the time, but another thing to help getting to a fighter is to do really well at your commissioning source and get selected for ENJJPT. ENJJPT is pilot training at Sheppard AFB. There, all students track to T-38s after T-6s (as opposed to some 38s, some T-1s, and some helos). And as others have said, some is in the luck of the timing. In January a class graduated and the #5 guy got C-17s b/c there were only four fighters. My class dropped 11 of 16 directly to fighters, with two more as FAIPs (first assignment instructor pilot) with the possibility of getting fighters after their IP tour.
So basically just do your best in whereever you're at: high school to get to USAFA, at USAFA to get to UPT, at UPT to track select, phase III for assignments. It's hard work at each step but every step is needed to get to join the fighter community
So basically just do your best in whereever you're at: high school to get to USAFA, at USAFA to get to UPT, at UPT to track select, phase III for assignments. It's hard work at each step but every step is needed to get to join the fighter community