Air Force Jobs and Majors

Pima said:
Learn something new everyday!

Our very close friend left the AF to fly a bus in the sky, 10 yrs later and 3 furloughs he came back in and is now at Creech, I jumped and thought that it was rated because of his situation.

CC....LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that post. It would be funny if they designed wings with little buttons...you know in the center like how it is different for Pilot and Nav wings. That would be HYSTERICAL...they could have it with 4 little buttons.

Before this goes off the rails and people take these comments offensively, it is truly just ribbing.
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Here's the story behind the wings!!!

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123170151

And pictures...

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Not to majorly shift the discussion from rated slots to non-rated....but how competitive is special investigations and intel?
 
Intel is fairly big. It is one of the more desired AFSCs, but they usually get 60ish slots.

OSI is very competative. Usually about 7-10% who apply are accepted.
 
Whats the difference between rated and non-rated slots?

on the chart on one of the first posts it says there are about 500 rated slots and about 500 non rated slots, whats the difference?
 
The short answser is that rated fields include flying or flying related jobs, a few being pilot, CSO (combat systems officer), and ABM (air battle manager). Non-rated fields include everything else, like SF, maintanence, force support, etc.
 
Also, if I wanted to be a pilot, but for whatever reason I didn’t get selected could I go on and do like search and rescue (well something related to that)?

Basically if you don’t get your first choice do you get other choices or do they just give you what ever they feel like?

Sorry for wording it badly :frown:
Thanks for the help though!
 
When you put in for your jobs, you will put in for more than one. Usually 3-4. And they will start at the top of your list and work down. If your #1 on the list is available, and you qualify, that's what you get. If not, they go to #2 and so on. And things like GPA/OPA and qualifications help determine who gets priority on their list being looked at first. Let's not use pilot as an example, because there's plenty of slots for those who want that. But let's say your search and rescue example. If there's 6 openings, and there's 10 cadets who have it as their next available choice, (Whether it's 1st choice or 3rd and you didn't get #1 or #2), then they look at the gpa/opa/qualifications of those 10 cadets and hand out those 6 slots accordingly. So it behooves you to do the very best you can at the academy. What you want to do may change 5-6 times in your 4 years. You want to have as many options as possible. I.e. If you're ranked in the top 50 of your class in GPA and OPA (Overall Point Average - 70% gpa and 30% Military Performance; which includes physical fitness); then you can pretty much choose any job in the air force that you are qualified to do and want to.

The person ranked #950 out of #1000 has a lot less options. One good point of news however. They almost NEVER totally fill their pilot slots. So, as long as you qualify, you have an extremely good chance of being a pilot. Which then brings up stage 2 of the process. You are fortunate and get selected for UPT. (Undergraduate Pilot Training). You can basically say that how you do in UPT is what will determine WHAT kind of plane you get. Also, the planes that are available. Again, you want options. So, if your UPT class of 500 drops down to say 450 because of wash outs, and you are ranked in the top 10-20, you have a really good shot of getting any plane you want. If you rank around #400, the pickings may be quite slim.

Then, depending on the plane you chose, they may physically not have enough planes to go around. If after your training on your particular plane, you pass that at the top of your class, you may be fortunate to get right into a plane. On the other hand, maybe as many pilots didn't get out or retire liked they hoped, and some who graduated at the bottom might be riding a desk for a while until a plane come available.

I refer actual details to Steve (Flieger). Also to correct me if I'm off base here. Later... mike....
 
In line with the piloting and education thoughts, I was wondering about life after UPT (if we make it). I know there are many who take a business or other "easy" major to get their GPA higher. What is life like afterward though? I plan on making serving in the Air Force my career, and I am worried that once I become an old man, they wont want me if I do not have a useful major.
Thanks for all of the great info!
 
That is definitely something to think about. You won't be in the air force forever. Maybe it's 5 years; maybe 10; maybe a 20 year career; or maybe even 30 years. Now, if you make it 30 years, and are obviously a general, you'll be approximately 52 years old. You will probably have enough money in military retirement and savings that you won't "Need" a job. You might "WANT" a job, but that's different than "Needing" a job. However, if you only stay in 20 years, or less, then you will most likely "NEED" to continue working. This is where "Maybe" your degree is useful, maybe not.

You could have a history degree and possibly become a procurement officer. You might deal with contracts and such for a living. After 20 years in such a field, that experience is what will get you your next job; not your degree. Same if you become an intel officer.

You definitely need to look at what you want to be "When you grow up". Hopefully, you'll try and major in a degree, in an areas that you want to serve in. It will definitely help you later on when you are choosing your job. The unique career field is pilot. Your degree doesn't have to have anything to do with being a pilot. And if you want to continue being a pilot when you get out of the military, then the degree still doesn't matter. But if for some reason you want/need to do something different, your degree might be important.

Remember also; in order to become a permanent major. (Not sure if it's called that still); but basically in order to be "ALLOWED" to stay in the military long enough to be able to receive a retirement, you will have had to have gotten your Master's degree by then. I.e. They are not going to allow you to stay in the military without a master's degree. So, when it comes time for your graduate degree, you can always choose something more "Practical" instead of history or english. Maybe an MBA Business; Counseling; management; IT; law, (That's higher than grad school, but still more education).

So, I really wouldn't worry too much right now. If you want to make the air force a career, and you HAVE to go to grad school, you can work that out then. If you plan on a 5 and dive, or out by 10 years, and aren't sure if you will go to grad school, you might want to consider an undergraduate degree that has some practical use. best of luck. mike....
 
I've had similar questions and I have been talking to many pilots that come into our control tower(I am active duty Air Traffic Controller) and the common answer I get is that the degree doesn't matter if you want to be a pilot, HOWEVER if you do not get an engineering degree a great number of doors are closed. For example in order to apply for the Test Pilot School you must have an engineering degree. Plus USAFA is an engineering school, why major in English or Humanities?? That's just my opinion
 
The other thing to consider regarding a degree.

You may start out your 4 dig year and be PQ so you pick an easy major. Then you find out your 2 dig year that for some reason you are no longer PQ. now you are an english major with no hope of flying. What now? There are many jobs in the AF that require a certain degree. Pilot happens to be one that doesn't, but many of the non-rated ones do.

You will get plenty of advice from the advisors when you get there.

Also, keep in mind that a lot of people that start out as engineers don't finish as such. I think when I visited my sons engr 101 class the teacher said 50% of the new cadets said they wanted to be aero majors their first year and less than 10% graduate with an aero degree.
 
Christcorp said:
That is definitely something to think about. You won't be in the air force forever. Maybe it's 5 years; maybe 10; maybe a 20 year career; or maybe even 30 years. Now, if you make it 30 years, and are obviously a general, you'll be approximately 52 years old. You will probably have enough money in military retirement and savings that you won't "Need" a job. You might "WANT" a job, but that's different than "Needing" a job. However, if you only stay in 20 years, or less, then you will most likely "NEED" to continue working. This is where "Maybe" your degree is useful, maybe not.

You could have a history degree and possibly become a procurement officer. You might deal with contracts and such for a living. After 20 years in such a field, that experience is what will get you your next job; not your degree. Same if you become an intel officer.

You definitely need to look at what you want to be "When you grow up". Hopefully, you'll try and major in a degree, in an areas that you want to serve in. It will definitely help you later on when you are choosing your job. The unique career field is pilot. Your degree doesn't have to have anything to do with being a pilot. And if you want to continue being a pilot when you get out of the military, then the degree still doesn't matter. But if for some reason you want/need to do something different, your degree might be important.

Remember also; in order to become a permanent major. (Not sure if it's called that still); but basically in order to be "ALLOWED" to stay in the military long enough to be able to receive a retirement, you will have had to have gotten your Master's degree by then. I.e. They are not going to allow you to stay in the military without a master's degree. So, when it comes time for your graduate degree, you can always choose something more "Practical" instead of history or english. Maybe an MBA Business; Counseling; management; IT; law, (That's higher than grad school, but still more education).

So, I really wouldn't worry too much right now. If you want to make the air force a career, and you HAVE to go to grad school, you can work that out then. If you plan on a 5 and dive, or out by 10 years, and aren't sure if you will go to grad school, you might want to consider an undergraduate degree that has some practical use. best of luck. mike....
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30 years...don't have to be a general...

But...you MUST be a Colonel...otherwise you're done at 28...

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
USAFMortensen said:
if you do not get an engineering degree a great number of doors are closed. For example in order to apply for the Test Pilot School you must have an engineering degree. Plus USAFA is an engineering school, why major in English or Humanities?? That's just my opinion
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Those "great number" consist of jobs outside piloting, Test Pilot, (most likely) any hopes of Astronaut, and...??? Yeah, I'm done...

Why major in something other than engineering? It's more fun, and you learn cool stuff. I'm not a fan of working spreadsheets and crunching numbers ALL day (like my roommate did). I'd rather read a book about Vietnam, strategy, counter-insurgency, WWII, why the US developed as it did, how tribal cultures work, etc. My roommate loves making aircraft designs that can go mach 2.3 and 3000nm, while carrying 15,000lbs of weapons. He is interested in finding the right engine, airfoil, fuselage design, control system, etc. to make it work. I'd rather be able to explain how to make strategy that will win the war.
 
Raimius it the nail on the cranium, but forgot to expand it even further.

Why not go engineering? Because the only way to be commissioned is to graduate!

Stink at Math or Science and life will be miserable. Additionally, you could find yourself behind the 8 ball and on academic probation...kiss UPT goodbye!

Engineering will get you the ability to be considered for TPS, but that doesn't mean you will get a slot. Get TPS, doesn't mean you will be an astronaut.

Plus USAFA is an engineering school, why major in English or Humanities??
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One thing to realize is if you pull up the curriculum for the AFA you will still be required to take Math and Science courses throughout your 4 yrs. Don't go in thinking that the AFA is like a LAC if you major in English...i.e Take Calc and you filled the square for graduation!

Additionally, if you decide to got Liberal Arts (LAC), there is a great reason to go there, mainly because NOT EVERYONE attends the AFA to be a pilot. Some attend with the desire to be Intel, Acct & Fin (A & F), foreign language specialists. comm., etc.

Bullet graduated with engineering from AFROTC, spent 20 yrs in the AF and it did help him in the beginning regarding flying, but he received his 1st Masters in Business (MBA). second at PME in Military Science.

The most important thing to remember is you can't pin on butter bars unless you graduate!
 
Plus USAFA is an engineering school, why major in English or Humanities?? That's just my opinion
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When the academy looks at applications to the air force academy, they are looking for the well rounded individual. They are also looking for a diversity at the academy made up of individuals with different likes/dislikes. Why? Because that's the REAL WORLD. As an officer, you will be leading individuals of every variety. Sort of difficult to do if you spent 4 years in college (The academy) with 4000 identical individuals. Maybe, just maybe, that's why the air force academy offers so many different degree majors instead of only offering engineering degrees.

And as others have said, half of the cadets won't be going for pilot type jobs. They'll be in intel, communications, satellites, security, and a host of other jobs. And, the academy offers a Bachelor of Science degree no matter what your major is. There are no Bachelor of Arts. So that means that even the history major had to take engineering and math classes.
 
When the academy looks at applications to the air force academy, they are looking for the well rounded individual. They are also looking for a diversity at the academy made up of individuals with different likes/dislikes. Why? Because that's the REAL WORLD.
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Obviously not everyone with major in engineering nor should they. However an Engineering degree from the Academy is very prestigious and if you have the ability and desire to, since it is a top 10 (Not sure exactly) undergrad engineering degree in the country why pass that up?

Those "great number" consist of jobs outside piloting, Test Pilot, (most likely) any hopes of Astronaut, and...??? Yeah, I'm done...
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Once you become an Officer you will be competing against your peers for promotions for the rest of your AF career. If two identical Captains go up for Major and all else being equal, Captain A has an engineering degree from the Academy and Captain B has a History major from the Academy... Captain A gets the Oak Leaf.

Don't be mistaken, your GPA and your degree will follow you.
 
futureAFA said:
Also, if I wanted to be a pilot, but for whatever reason I didn’t get selected could I go on and do like search and rescue (well something related to that)?
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To use search and rescue as an example, the STO/CRO (Special Tactics Officer/Combat Rescue Officer) selection program is extremely challenging, and a CRO is in a way the military version of search and rescue. They are not only highly competitive but the selection process is insane, with a special emphasis placed on swimming skills and just doing various training exercises in water. It's not impossible, and anyone with determination can do it, but I definitely would not consider it as a second choice or back up option, since once you decide you will have to put time into making yourself better almost everyday. USAF SpecOps will likely be different than anything you've ever seen before.
 
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