That makes total sense... however, Mullen has NOT told us to lie, but rather explained what they meant with that question, thus defining the correct answer to, say, a celebratory drink, as no.
That is really weird though.
alcohol on DoDMERB
- Thread starter NamD
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That makes total sense... however, Mullen has NOT told us to lie, but rather explained what they meant with that question, thus defining the correct answer to, say, a celebratory drink, as no.
That is really weird though.
What is USING then?
We need a definition from the DoDMERB dictionary. I am, evidently, inclined to base myself on Mullen The Great, for he is (or was?) the deputy director of DoDMERB, and consider "a sip of wine" less than " use of alcohol".
The question is another one, though... what is the exact definition of "use"? What is a "sip", exactly? Say, drinking one glass of champagne in New Year's is considered "alcohol use" or "just a sip"?
I am firing up an e-mail to DoDMERB. I'll post the veredict as soon as I have it.
Don't waste their time. They have much more important things to consider.
There are two totally separate issues here. First, the medical/technical aspect which is all Mullen considers/ed. He knows what the question is intended to reveal and, based on a single example, gave an answer. On this forum we do not know the line between "use" and whatever.
Secondly, and more importantly, is the issue of attempting to "sea lawyer" a response by debating the definition of words. You are going into an environment where honor is paramount and the only acceptable answers are "yes sir", "no sir", and "I'll find out Sir". It will be a "black and white" world. Instead of debating the size of a "sip". commence preparing yourself with the DoDMERB questionairre and simply explain what you did.
Thus we must e-mail DoDMERB.
No one here is trying to twist the system or be a "sea lawyer". We are trying to answer that question correctly. No one here knows what they are asking precisely (if anyone knows anything, that would be Mullen). Unfortunately, I cannot tell what you are: a candidate, a MALO, a DoDMERB official... by looking at your profile. Therefore, I cannot take what you are saying as the official statement if you define "use of alcohol" or define the question unless you tell me who you are. If you are an official on the subject, I shall take your word for granted. You are, at a certain point, contradicting what Mullen posted, and Mullen was a DoDMERB official at the time of the post (I am not sure what he is doing now). A more current and specific response to each case (having 1 glass of champagne at each New Year's, having a glass of wine at a country which drinking age was reached, drinking a glass at a wedding...).
Answering it incorrectly can provide more of a hassle to the candidate, DoDMERB and the Service Academy than can an e-mail, providing DoDMERB is used to answering questions such as these.
What we are trying to figure out is what exactly are they asking. Mullen's post is over a year old. What we are looking for is a current definition of what is considered use of (or tried?) alcohol. Mullen explained that "having a couple of sips of champagne each New Years(sic)" is NOT considered use of alcohol, which means exactly that, for the application for the class of 2015.
To figure out this issue for the application of class of 2016, we must ask someone who is an official, not simply knowledgeable, on the subject. Mullen is not among us anymore. He told us to contact DoDMERB if we needed accurate responses. This is what we must do. We do NOT know what is considered alcohol use.
So... what should be answered on the questionnaire, afterall?
You have answered it for me.
NamD, or whoever already has this year's DoDMERB questionnaire/file/whatever it is called, could you please provide me with the EXACT QUESTION (word for word, possible answer for possible answer) of any questions concerning Alcohol? I need that to ask an accurate question to DoDMERB.
I will also need to know what is a "sip". Half a glass? Just touching your lips in the wine?
I will ask DoDMERB where EXACTLY is the line between "having used" (or whatever term is used in the questionnaire) alcohol or not.
Thank you.
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I understand the intent of this thread, but it is getting to serious overkill. It is what we call "paralysis by analysis" and is not a good thing.
Just report you had a sip and move onto the many more important parts of high school life (family, friends, volunteering, SATs etc...).
Should you be lucky enough to be chosen to be part of the long grey line in the future, you will have to make much more important decisions in the blink of an eye. This one is a no-brainer.
Just report you had a sip and move onto the many more important parts of high school life (family, friends, volunteering, SATs etc...).
Should you be lucky enough to be chosen to be part of the long grey line in the future, you will have to make much more important decisions in the blink of an eye. This one is a no-brainer.
mom3boys
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Here is a link to some rules/regs w/ alcohol that you may/may not be aware of: http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591 In some cases and situations, alcohol consumption by a minor is not illegal.
Basically, according to rule 8, while in New York if I want to serve my kid a drink at a restaurant, I can. Nice to know for when you take your future cadets out to dinner prior to their 21st bday.
Basically, according to rule 8, while in New York if I want to serve my kid a drink at a restaurant, I can. Nice to know for when you take your future cadets out to dinner prior to their 21st bday.
Luigi59
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We will have a definite answer as soon as someone provides me the exact (word by word) portion of the questionnaire, so as to I can ask a DoDMERB official about this.
I did not get the DoDMERB questionnaire yet, however I am curious: what is the relation of the DoDMERB with the SATs?
I agree that this should be a no-brainer. However, we have a DoDMERB official's comment and we have everyone else's comments. Apparently, DoDMERB official's comment apparently contradicts the exact definition (word by word) of the question. Thus, we cannot be certain of what is being asked. This could have been a no-brainer. In my view, unfortunately, it is not, since there are "exceptions".
This is interesting indeed! Unfortunately, I don't think the DoDMERB is discussing "use of alcohol" under legal authority or something like it.
I used "sea lawyer" as defined by Mongo. If you would prefer, you can substitute "sea lawyer" to... "land lawyer"? lolz
And on the first quote, do you have any comments on it?
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That is actually very interesting. Tons of my classmates have written papers about how the US should let parents be the ones to supervise consuming alcohol. Not one of them knew about this and it is in effect in over half the states! Mind boggling
Dixieland
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Yep. Amen.
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I completely agree; those are the two choices. It is really up to you to fill it out but if you only consumed alchohol (consumed since appearently it's not considered USING unless you drink more than some arbitrary limit) in an innocent situation then filling it out truthfully will not harm you since you can explain the situation in the form itself. That is just my opinion based on my time under the honor code.
Professional development for BillSL
This will be my last comment on this issue and it is directed towards BillSL.
Bill- my guess is that you are a good guy, very smart, try to do things right and most likely a perfectionist. All of that is great and appreciated. However, since you want to fight on most every point on a topic of very minimal importance you are showing yourself as a "know-it-all." That will not serve you well on a team, at USMA or as an officer in the Army. The people that have a knack at getting along with others, respect people and are high personal achievers do well and can really get things done thru others (which is key). The "know-it-alls" don't have the credibility or network of colleagues to move things forward. I have seen it in the Army and in the civilian world.
I am a father of a high schooler, a USMA grad and currently the CEO of a corporation so I have been there and done that. I am not trying to come down on you, but am sincerely trying to help you. Please heed my advice on this.
This will be my last comment on this issue and it is directed towards BillSL.
Bill- my guess is that you are a good guy, very smart, try to do things right and most likely a perfectionist. All of that is great and appreciated. However, since you want to fight on most every point on a topic of very minimal importance you are showing yourself as a "know-it-all." That will not serve you well on a team, at USMA or as an officer in the Army. The people that have a knack at getting along with others, respect people and are high personal achievers do well and can really get things done thru others (which is key). The "know-it-alls" don't have the credibility or network of colleagues to move things forward. I have seen it in the Army and in the civilian world.
I am a father of a high schooler, a USMA grad and currently the CEO of a corporation so I have been there and done that. I am not trying to come down on you, but am sincerely trying to help you. Please heed my advice on this.
Hehe yes
This is the logic. Happens that Mullen said that there is at least 1 situation in which you can answer no. And the most accurate answers we provide, the better (if they want you to put "no", you put "no" because it is an exception, if they are saying it).
That is why I want to e-mail DoDMERB, just so I don't expose myself (or anyone else) to something time-consuming, but insignificant, if such can be avoided.
Thank you for the input. I definitively agree with you. After I posted the big answer on the last page, I really thought "dang, I just put a lot of useless stuff there and will create uncalled-for problems!". I logged back in and was going to edit it, but they put a time limit on which you can edit something, thus I couldn't. I figured it would be better to leave it how it is.
I had no intention of transmiting myself as a "know-it-all", and I am sure you will agree with me that emotions or whatever signs of visual expression are really hard to transmit over text. I apologize to anyone reading this if I sounded like a smartass. I do have this nasty habit of, in the forums, commenting on everything I can (since, in the Internet, you can quote and comment on everything). I just made the error of getting into "debate mode" and try to invalidate each and every person's comments so I can get my point through. I clear mistake, and I am sorry for it.
Once again, thank you Mr. Billy. I will definitively heed your advice, and definitively try to be more concise on whatever I do (that's kind of my personal goal... still working on it though!)
Thank you for your service
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my apologies for starting such a huge argument over something that wont really affect me..
thank you all for your concern and help! this thread just proves how helpful everyone wants to be for each and every one of us. thanks service academy forums
thank you all for your concern and help! this thread just proves how helpful everyone wants to be for each and every one of us. thanks service academy forums