ALO not responding promptly

flieger83, I think we are probably closer to saying the same thing than some might realize. However, What we have here is two candidates who have not yet completed their CFA in July and seem to be ready to put their ALO on report for not being at their beck and call. And those on the forum who are willing to support them. First off, it is only July. The board doesn't meet for two months. And secondly, they have not yet completed their application (CFA). They need to relax. They need to realize that they are no longer the big fish in the small pond but a very small fish in a very large pond. They need to realize they are entering a part of their life where their needs and desires are secondary to that of the organization as a whole. They need to learn that instant gratification in the future may make way for a long slow process. Okay, I have said it.

I never in any way, shape, or form menat to imply that the ALO sat on a record. Let's just assume that the ALOs have done their jobs. They are familiar with all the info on the ALOWEB. They have talked to each counselor and gleaned as much information as they were able to gather. Maybe even talked to a few teachers. And their ROTC instructors. They have done their homework. One, they feel, is a top notch candidate. Since I agree that LOAs are a bad word, I will only say, one of the ALOs would bet the farm that this candidate will be appointed. The other is so so. Teachers were surprised he was applying to AFA. Not stellar academically. Not a lot of extracurriculars. Now human nature comes into play. Would the ALO be as apt to cancel his vacation to ensure that the board has the eval as the other? Heck, if I was ALO for the first, I may be on the phone to find out why he has not completed his CFA. But I would probably let the second one ride.

They way you described candidates before the board pretty much works the way I envisioned. It sounds as if the middle of the pack may make several trips before they get a nod.

Now I gotta go back and digest the rest of this. I will have more questions. One already pops up in that Christcorp, in his last paragraph, seems to imply that early applications may get appointments to the exclusion of a more qualified applicant who desn't get his package in until the deadline. That doesn't seem to follow the spirit of Federal law.

Thanks for the clarification. I apologize for giving the impression that I thought ALOs/BGOs might sit on records. Not what I meant.
 
This has been such a great discussion to read! I've printed it for my son to read to help him understand the process. His file is almost complete and he gets back from China next weekend, so he can finish upon his return....just has one last essay to write and the drug/alcohol statement. DoDMERB qualified (yippie!) and needs to track down 2 teachers who agreed to write recs, but haven't responded to USAFA email yet. CALL his ALO, send in his nomination packets once he updates resume from China trip, and then finish CFA by end of Aug or 1st week Sept. From everything I'm reading he seems on track to be in the early boards..that's if ALL goes as planned.

Getting everything in this early is a true testament to a kid's desire to go, I must admit. My son will have this completed, AROTC app, AFROTC app, and all college apps submitted by beginning of Sept. He's either ahead of the game, or is just happy to get this busy work behind him so he can have fun his senior year!!:biggrin: I'm leaning towards the latter as motivation :wink: or maybe a combination of both.
 
mombee,

I really do agree with you also. My ALO told me he was on vacation from July 1 - July 15 and said he would contact me when he got back. I waited until the 20th and just sent a short reminder note, on the 30th I left a message on his phone. It is not like I am calling him every day to get on his case, but I would like to at least hear from him just to confirm that he is still thinking about me. The reason that I haven't done my CFA is because my XC coach is impossible to contact during the summer and I thought I would ask my ALO to do it. I am not any any big hurry, but I know the time will get away from me as I start school in a couple weeks and I don't want to procrastinate and forget about it until late September or October. I am sorry if I sounded like I thought my ALO is sitting on the record, I did not mean that at all, but I do know that it definitely does not hurt a bit if you get your app completed early. Thanks for all your advice. This is a great site.

Thanks
 
mombee, you jumped to a BIG (and inaccurate) conclusion that we would want to put the ALO on report. Just seeking advice on what to do next. and btw, he's spoken to the ALO shortly after summer seminar packet was submitted and then now in trying to arrange the interview/CFA. There is no "beck and call" expectation.

If one disregards the information presented in this thread and just considers the instructions in the letter the academy sent, dated June 30, complete the actions within 45 days. That is Aug 15. My son has taken that as his goal, and we now have 14 days left and the ALO has not responded to emails. They have talked by phone and she requested email communication.

Now, based on the info from other posters, the Aug 15 deadline is not very firm. So yea, I guess we relax a little. Still, like bsaeagle says, it would be nice to get it done before XC and school gets into full swing.
 
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Hi again!

Yep, we probably are closer than it appeared! :thumb:

The system is setup to afford the candidate the opportunity to "show they care" and to take charge of the process. MOST ALO's, but I won't speak for all of them, will typically WAIT to contact their candidate. They want to see if the candidate will call them, or mom/dad, or ? One reason? If the candidate is serious then they should be chomping at the bit to get in touch with their ALO to see what they need to do, what's the ALO think, etc...etc...

A quote to see if I can help a bit:

Now I gotta go back and digest the rest of this. I will have more questions. One already pops up in that Christcorp, in his last paragraph, seems to imply that early applications may get appointments to the exclusion of a more qualified applicant who desn't get his package in until the deadline. That doesn't seem to follow the spirit of Federal law.

Actually, while it may not seem fair; this is precisely how it may work. An early candidate will be reviewed by the boards quicker; the boards may decide: "By XX November, we will have made YYY offers." So...they go through all the files that are complete up to those dates. And then they'll make offers to meet their requirements.

Does this mean that later in the process there may be students that "on paper" are higher scoring than some of the earlier appointees?

Yes, it may happen that way. Is it 100% fair and equitable? That will depend upon whether or not you're one of the lucky ones. The NICE thing is that the AFA will try to only fill the "required by law" slots first. That's on the order of 600 - 800 slots "typically." Those are the congressional and senatorial slots.

THEN they put EVERYONE back in the hopper and go over them again, and again, to fill the remainder of the class.

Remember though...of the x-teen thousand applicants, typically only about 3000-3500 are FULLY QUALIFIED when all is said and done. And from THAT pool we get our 1200-1300 appointees.

The really tough job, I don't have: splitting the hairs to select the appointees. There are always some that just GLARE at you: the 800/780/740 SAT valedictorian, 3 sport letterman, that works a part-time job AND volunteers at a homeless shelter. Oh yeah, they max the CFA.

Those are easy; they're just SUPER SUPER RARE! The truth of the matter is: the VAST majority of our "serious" candidates are SO good and SO close to each other...it's really REALLY tough to choose.

That's why ALO's are out here!

We sorta have some "insider information" on things that should be focused upon. We can look at your package with you and tell you what to focus a little more on, how to tweak some things here, less there, etc.

After all...

Once they become candidates and show up on ALOWEB with our name next to theirs, these are OUR kids! :thumb:

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
^^^^^^ (Oops, double up to homewith4)

Probably more concerned about the advice given than jumping to a conclusion. However, if your son is so concerned to complete by Aug 15, why has he not done his CFA? Why did he not arrange it before school was out? Perhaps the ALO is like me.

Many/most candidates hate CFAs. They always think next week they will do better. So they postpone. Procrastinate. I refuse to schedule an interview until it is complete. Or if we are approaching a deadline, I will not schedule until the CFA is scheduled. And then I will attempt to schedule my interview the day after the CFA. It is really doing them a favor. I have seen completed packages, less the CFA, sit for months.
 
mombee,

I really do agree with you also. My ALO told me he was on vacation from July 1 - July 15 and said he would contact me when he got back. I waited until the 20th and just sent a short reminder note, on the 30th I left a message on his phone. It is not like I am calling him every day to get on his case, but I would like to at least hear from him just to confirm that he is still thinking about me. The reason that I haven't done my CFA is because my XC coach is impossible to contact during the summer and I thought I would ask my ALO to do it. I am not any any big hurry, but I know the time will get away from me as I start school in a couple weeks and I don't want to procrastinate and forget about it until late September or October. I am sorry if I sounded like I thought my ALO is sitting on the record, I did not mean that at all, but I do know that it definitely does not hurt a bit if you get your app completed early. Thanks for all your advice. This is a great site.

Thanks[/QUOTE


I guess all ALO's are different. I remember when I called him on Wednesday after he told me to call him when I emailed him. He told me he was busy and would call me back because he was at work. He called me back 2 days later on Friday.
 
mombee,

You need to realize that the Candidate Kit does not open until July 1. Therefore the CFA can not be completed and recorded before then. Like the application says, you have 45 days to complete everything (they won't shut you down after that, but it is recommended) and that started on July 1, 2009.

Later
 
It's alway beneficial make several practie runs of the CFA in the location and with the correct equipment so that you and your CFA proctor can get the timing and equipment correct. This isn't something you 'just do'...and once you do it...that's it! rushing won't help, but getting the stars and moon to align during the summer is always a challenge!! Son emailed ALO at he beginning of summer to let him know his schedule (son was only in town for 3 days) and he didn't hear back, so the hunt for his ALO will commence on Aug 10th! Sounds like it should be fun! :biggrin:
 
Yes, the application "Suggests" completing it within 45 days. The vast majority will not make this deadline. That is OK. But I stand by the premise that having it finished in that time; and allowing a week or so for the paperwork/application to get processed and prepared; will make you eligible for the 1st of many board reviews. And every board that your application meets will include more and more applicants and the process continues. So, having yours in ASAP gives you the "CHANCE" that the board may see something in you and your application that stands out.

Yes, it's possible that your application is just "So-So" or just average. But your ALO isn't going to determine that; nor are they going to discourage you by saying anything similar. And they are definitely not going to delay or hold it back 1 extra day. All your grades are in; your SAT/ACT have been done; (Yes you can still continue to take them again); there is absolutely nothing in the new school year that can really change significantly the application. So get the CFA done; get the ALO interview; and submit the application. And the ALO can definitely do the CFA so you don't have to wait until school starts. And the ALO knows the 45 day recommendation and are not put off at all if you call them. Definitely be PRO-ACTIVE. Later... mike...
 
If things have changed then forgive me, the only thing I recall DS had to have done in 45 days was his physical, he did not do his CFA until Sept/Oct, same time as his recs were submitted. He met with his ALO the 1st week of July, and just looked up his paperwork file (still have it because of ROTC scholarship) the letter was dated June 27th!
 
Pima; you don't HAVE TO DO ANYTHING in 45 days. The application simply "Suggests" that if you get it done within the 45 days, you will be eligible for the 1st round of board reviews. There's people who don't complete the application until October-November. Technically; you have I believe until January. You can have your nomination done before the application. However; if the application isn't done, you CAN'T be reviewed by the board. It's that simple. The sooner your application is completed, the sooner and more boards you will be reviewed by, and the more "Chances" for a lack of a better word you have of receiving an appointment. later... mike.....
 
Actually I thought it was Mar 1 to have it completes. I think that the most important thing is to get the physical done since you might get hit with a DQ.
 
USAFA is actually the only academy that does not enforce the 45 days. I think the other academies will shut you down after those 45 days. I guess we have it kind of easy in that respect.

Later
 
I know this thread was about ALO's; and not to drift it too far off, but being we've evolved a bit into the 45 day recommendation, let me explain at least WHY I recommend trying to get it done in the 45 days +/-. (At least to those I have helped in the past). 2 basic scenarios. Not counting the ALO, Counselor, or anyone else; assuming that YOU the applicant thinks of YOUR application one of two ways.

1) You believe that your application is extremely strong. Maybe even one of the "No Brainer" applicants in the eye's of the academy. You're the 4.0gpa (Or close); 30+ ACT; 2100+ SAT; the varsity letterer; bla bla bla. By having your application done in time for the 1st round, and subsequent rounds later of board reviews, you open up the possibility of "Early Admission". This is the same goal that most high achievers aim for who apply in September/October to colleges such as USC, Brown, Northwestern, Yale, Harvard, etc... In the Air Force Academy, they call it an LOA. (Letter of Assurance). Basically, it's your "Early Admissions". Why does any college applicant apply for early admissions? To A) Increase their chances against a smaller pool of applicants. B) Hope the college wants them enough to offer them admissions; being colleges DO COMPETE for your business. and C) To provide you, the applicant, with more options. So if YOU believe that your application is a very strong one, and you believe that you are the type of student that would normally be applying for "Early Admissions" at a civilian college like one of the Ivy's or other esteem schools; then that is EXACTLY the same reason(s) you should be trying to get your application done early with the Air Force Academy. To secure yourself an admissions against a smaller pool of applicants/competition and give yourself MORE options. Then, if you're lucky enough possibly to get the early admissions (LOA); you can confidently walk into your representative's or senator's office during nomination interview with them already recognizing that the academy WANTS you. Then, you are almost guaranteed a nomination and an appointment. The nomination can be the VERY LAST ONE on their list, and that's all you need. Without the LOA, (Early Admissions), you have to COMPETE with all the other applicants in your district/state; and possibly the country. (National Pool)

2)You believe that your application is average along with everyone else's. So what are the advantages of having your application considered early here. The academy is competing for your business just like any other school is. Maybe you are applying from an underserved state? Maybe you have certain areas of your application that are exceptional even though your GPA/SAT/ACT aren't the highest level. But the academy/board sees your motivation, enthusiasm, determination, etc... They see your application in the beginning of the process before they've become too inundated with thousands upon thousands of applications. If they don't offer you an LOA early, they still recognize your application. Then, as updated grades, retesting of SAT/ACT scores come in, etc... maybe the academy sees an "UPWARD TREND" in your application. The enthusiasm and determination that you showed in getting your application in sooner that many others, could be the tie breaker you need to be chosen over someone who finished the application process in January. Also; you discussing this with your member of congress that you're vying for a nomination, can also be impressive to them. YOU might be the one who gets the nomination because your representative saw that YOU wanted it MORE than the rest of those applying who may have barely finished the process or hasn't finished yet.

The thing about EITHER opinion of your application, is that you ARE COMPETING WITH OTHERS. Maybe it's others in your district or state. Maybe it's against the national pool. Maybe it's for one of the rare nominations for presidential, VP, ROTC, etc... The point is; you are competing. And because this is the Job Interview of YOUR LIFE; why in the hell wouldn't you want to give yourself every possible advantage you can. When you go to a job interview scheduled for 2:00; do you get there at 2:00 or do you get there 20-30 minutes early? Do you send in a basic job application, or do you include an extensive resume? Do you walk in with your Gym clothes on, or a shirt and tie? Do you say "Umm" and "Yeh" and "Like" every other word, or do you say "Sir", "Ma'am", and articulated words? Can I guarantee you that my son or anyone else who got their application in early had a significant advantage over others? No, I can't guarantee you that. But the application process is much more than your GPA and SAT/ACT scores. We discuss that repeatedly. It's about the "Whole Person" concept. What does it tell an interviewer, board member reviewing applications, ALO, etc... who sees an application with the date completed as "4 August 2009"? What does it say when they see one later that says "18 December 2009". What do they possibly choose when the representative of district gives the academy their list of 10 names AND DOESN'T RANK THEM, and tells the academy to CHOOSE ONE. (THIS IS VERY COMMON). Does the academy choose the one who's application they say 20 times and was completed in August; or do they choose the one they say a fraction and it was completed around Christmas???

FORGET EVERYTHING that you think is RIGHT or WRONG. Sorry, but just because you have a 4.0gpa and kick butt SAT/ACT doesn't mean you're getting an appointment. I know FIRST HAND; and I will bet my next pay check that Steve (Fleiger) as well as every other ALO in the Country; knows of at least 1 individual that "Academically" they thought was a shoe in for the academy and they didn't get an appointment. It doesn't matter if you think it's fair. There ARE some with a 3.7 gpa who WILL get an appointment, while others with a 3.9 WON'T get an appointment. Why; because grades aren't everything. Some won't get a nomination. Some have a really crappy attitude. (I'm not an ALO, so I can say this. An ALO might NOT be able to GET YOU an appointment; but they can DEFINITELY STOP you from getting one).

Anyway; I will continue to counsel and recommend that your goal from the time you apply to the academy, and the process opens up, is that you aim for the 45 days. No, it's not a hard fast rule that if you don't make it then you're screwed. But I guarantee you that there is very little that you gain by not finishing it and submitting it later. But you definitely improve your chances by submitting it as soon as possible. So; contact your ALO's. Coordinate with your teachers before school gets out your junior year. (You know you're applying; let them know to expect some contact from the academy). Work with your ALO for the CFA. Get in shape and get your medical review done. I know of at least 8 individuals currently at the academy who had their applications completed 100% before the 1st board met. It can definitely be done. Best of luck to everyone. Mike......
 
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there is absolutely nothing in the new school year that can really change significantly the application.

I agree with flieger. The vast majority of candidates seem to be right at the cutoff point. I have never really examined the statistics but I feel applications are a bell curve with the cutoff being somewhere near the apex. Also, many of these last appointments are not made until well into the new year (The MOC submittal requirement date dictates this and then national pool appointments cannot be made until after the MOC assignmernts). I think it is very dangerous advice to imply that courseload and semester grades for senior year do not matter. An 'A' in AP Calculus could well be the 'go, no go' determinant.
 
A quote to see if I can help a bit:

Now I gotta go back and digest the rest of this. I will have more questions. One already pops up in that Christcorp, in his last paragraph, seems to imply that early applications may get appointments to the exclusion of a more qualified applicant who desn't get his package in until the deadline. That doesn't seem to follow the spirit of Federal law.

Actually, while it may not seem fair; this is precisely how it may work. An early candidate will be reviewed by the boards quicker; the boards may decide: "By XX November, we will have made YYY offers." So...they go through all the files that are complete up to those dates. And then they'll make offers to meet their requirements.

Does this mean that later in the process there may be students that "on paper" are higher scoring than some of the earlier appointees?

Yes, it may happen that way. Is it 100% fair and equitable? That will depend upon whether or not you're one of the lucky ones. The NICE thing is that the AFA will try to only fill the "required by law" slots first. That's on the order of 600 - 800 slots "typically." Those are the congressional and senatorial slots.

Going to have to question you a bit here. It is not the place of the board to set arbitrary milestones. They are required to conform to the letter of the law. As Pima stated, records do not have to be finalized until March 1. This is to ensure the capture of those who may have been nominated, unaware of the two path application, a chance to get their applications in order. As you have stated, the law requires first the MOC matchups and then the pool. Other than a few Presidentials and possibly SecAFs, I am unaware of any special groups, as Christcorp implied, that a candidate can be a part of to be an early appointment. There are of course some primarys which might be appointed as soon as the MOC list is submitted. However, anything the board might do to rush things I do not feel would survive legal scrutiny. Yes, it is nice to get the application in early. Yes, an early application might be more apt to receive a very thorough review since the board is not as busy as it will be in November-December. Yes, the board may offer a very few LOAs based on, like Christcorp stated, historical data but still with a nomination stipulation. To imply any other reason for an early submittal probably implies that USAFA admissions is not in keeping with federal law. Just my opinion. The law is the law. It should not be a lottery where luck prevails. But I have learned a lot from this discussion. Thanks.
 
Going to have to question you a bit here. It is not the place of the board to set arbitrary milestones. They are required to conform to the letter of the law. As Pima stated, records do not have to be finalized until March 1. This is to ensure the capture of those who may have been nominated, unaware of the two path application, a chance to get their applications in order. As you have stated, the law requires first the MOC matchups and then the pool. Other than a few Presidentials and possibly SecAFs, I am unaware of any special groups, as Christcorp implied, that a candidate can be a part of to be an early appointment. There are of course some primarys which might be appointed as soon as the MOC list is submitted. However, anything the board might do to rush things I do not feel would survive legal scrutiny. Yes, it is nice to get the application in early. Yes, an early application might be more apt to receive a very thorough review since the board is not as busy as it will be in November-December. Yes, the board may offer a very few LOAs based on, like Christcorp stated, historical data but still with a nomination stipulation. To imply any other reason for an early submittal probably implies that USAFA admissions is not in keeping with federal law. Just my opinion. The law is the law. It should not be a lottery where luck prevails. But I have learned a lot from this discussion. Thanks.
The academy sets no "arbitrary" milestones. The only "law" that applies is the federally mandated minimum standard for admission. If a candidate meets/exceeds that standard then they may be admitted or offered admission at any time; there's no requirement that candidate "A" be admitted over candidate "B" based upon any other criteria. The academy uses the "whole person" concept and determines which candidate is the best overall fit.

Early submittal DOES afford an applicant early review by the admissions board. If that applicant is fully qualified for admission, they may be offered an "LOA" or not. There's no timetable for this and no requirement to "wait until all others are in" to compare them.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Having gone through this extreme paperwork/waiting process is very nerve-wracking on everyone, especially the applicant. My daughter took everything in stride when she started the application process last year. She contacted her ALO and got a response within two weeks of her initial phone call and then set up her interview two weeks later. Her ALO had a job, kids playing weekend sports and other committments. He kept in contact with her about every month to 6 weeks. One word of advice, be prepared for the other hairballs that will slow down your process. Her initial recommendation from the high school counselor and her transcripts got lost in the mail. Her recruiting video for soccer got lost in the mail. One teacher wrote a beuatiful letter on her behalf, lost in the mail, (Thank God she also did the on-line thing). Anything you send, make copies of and send with a tracking number and follow up with that tracking number to make sure your paperwork is getting there in a timely manner. Be prepared for remedials and that whole process. Keep your ALO in the loop as to what you are doing and where you are in the process. You may not get a response, but know they are out there following your progress every step of the way. At least my daughters ALO was.
 
I am going to add my 2 cents worth here too ... I have seen posts recently that imply that getting an app in early is not needed as, "the board won't review your file until x" However, the truth is that as soon as a file is complete it is evaluated. It is possible that an LOA will result from that review. It is also possible that the file will be held for further review later. I LOAs can come at anytime - not just early, though most are issued in the fall. Similarly, I have what I perceived to be near perfect candidates not get an appointment at all, let alone an LOA. I recommend that all candidates get their apps in as early as possible and then plan to update their file regularly. If you complete your file early - before the first boards meet, it will be reviewed & at the very least gain consideration for an LOA if not, it will be reevaluated again and you may get an LOA or appointment later. Nothing is lost by submitting early, unless you also choose not to update your file, and much can be gained. If you don't gain an LOA out of an early file completion, you will at least gain peace of mind that it's done and the easy part is updating the file as warranted.

Adding in the nomination piece gets a little more complicated ... if you do not get an LOA, then you will be reviewed in comparison to your nomination slate. Your WCS is compared to the others and the highest WCS on your slate of nominees from your MOC gains admission (assuming a non-ranked slate). Because the candidates on the slate are compared to each other, admissions cannot appoint the MOC charged candidate until all members of the slate have completed their file, which is not due until much later, after the nom even.

This is where people seem to get confused. Completing your file early gives you the potential for an LOA but won't speed up your eventual appointment if you don't get an LOA. The reason is that you will either get an LOA or you will get an appointment when your slate is done. This is why most appointments are issued in MARCH. The MOC slate is due to the SA by January 31 but the applicant file is not due complete until later (I think it's March 1, but don't remember off the top of my head). The most important factor in getting an early appointment is often the completeness of the other files on your slate (which you have zero control over). So, kids that get a nom in November might also wait until March to get an appointment - even if their file was complete. It only takes one file on the MOC slate to be incomplete to hold the whole slate up. And, sometimes candidates open a file, get a nom and never complete the file because they changed their mind and don't withdraw their application - the whole slate has to wait until the file completion date has passed.

The number of scenarios is large and would take pages to come up with an "if this, than that" kind of document. The bottom line is that, for various reason that get too complicated to really explain easily, it is best to submit your application early - knowing that you may not hear anything about an appointment until next March, or even later. There are just way to many variables, many of which are out of your control.
 
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