Am I competitive?

17Lives said:
I will be taking up athletics this year.
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red flag red flag red flag

You are 30% or more through the junior year and just now are going to "take up athletics." This needs explanation. I, for one, do not believe any applicant/candidate has to be on the HS football team or basketball, etc., but you'll need something more than drilling at CAP.
 
I'm fine with low average test scores lol that just means my application stands out more when I get high scores.

Aaaanyways... Dude you need a chill pill. And you have no idea who I am or what I've done, so no, we aren't in the same boat. My post about my resume was months ago and I don't have to explain myself to you, so... I'll leave it at that. Bottom line, how can you expect to be a military officer when you get mad at someone you talked to on a forum? That's just immaturity at its best. I mean you are still young so now you've got an excuse but eventually you'll have to come to terms with yourself and decide to let what people say go, and to me that's one of the key components to leadership: do NOT let what people say bother you.

And to answer your initial question: no you are never competitive enough unless you are the best, so strive to be the best. Even if you don't reach that goal of becoming the best, you will have worked your butt off to try to reach that goal, which will get you near it. If you aim for the stars, you'll at least get to the sky. Ask yourself: am I truly giving my 100%? Do you spend your weekends watching tv and playing video games? Or do you spend it exercising, volunteering, and studying? Are you pushing yourself or are you just riding the coat tails of your past achievements? You can try and antagonize me, but in the end all you are doing is wasting your own time trying to argue when you could be doing something productive. I was raised to be thankful for everything that God gave me, and when I see people like you who are ungrateful for advice it just makes me wonder what our generation has become. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm done ranting and I have to finish my run. Hopefully you learned something from our little conversation, and if you respond to my post don't expect another reply because I've learned that some people just aren't worth the effort of reasoning with. Oh, and another word of advice: speak proper English when making an argument. Reread what you type because people take you as a joke when you sound like an iditard (my Literature professor has beaten this into my head).

And Pima that breaks my heart that he'd be able to laugh in my face lol
 
Pima said:
Yes, but the point is the kid from Arkansas can be the top 3% of their class, but be below 1300. Thus, it is not strange at all if on average if they are at 90%.
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And for every kid in Arkansas that is top 3% of their class below a 1300 there is probably someone in a hyper competitive school from say Vermont that is at the 20% mark of their class with a 1500 on the SAT. I don't see the reason why it wouldn't balance out in the end. If the bulk of the people admitted to the Academy were from Arkansas that would make sense, but that isn't the case. It's distributed across the country.
 
Jest,

I am going to be a Mom of 3 kids for a second.
~ You two are now getting into the WELL THEY DID IT FIRST aspect.

You are both getting in the mud. Now you BOTH need to decide if you can rise above each others post.

17,
I think that Jest does deserve some respect from you. They are vying for an appointment for the class of 2020. They are further along in the process. This is not an SLS issue for them and they have researched what they are facing as a candidate for an appointment.

Next year that will be you.

I also agree with others regarding your current resume. My opinion is still out because academically too much info is missing. No PSAT score. Nothing about your academic rigor or school profile. Are you taking any APs. You state the school is a Magnet, but nothing else, not even if you are in the magnet program.

Grow a thicker skin if you want to compete in this world. In the pilot world do you know what they call a new pilot? FNG...F is curse word New Guy. You will learn to shut up and color for a period.

I am not trying to be mean at all. There is a a close knit feeling like family within the AF.
~ Yes, I know that closeness as an F15E WSO spouse for 21 years and now as a Mom of an AF C130 pilot. Both have endured the you S*CK as the new guy on the block.

Jest,

You are older.

You also need to now have a thicker skin. Walk away and stop the fight. Next year they can and may provoke you. It is up to you to know when to bite and when not to bite.
~ The same is true when you are ADAF.

You gave some great advice, but it was lost right after you said take a chill pill.

Mom tapping out now.
 
frenzymando said:
Pima said:
Yes, but the point is the kid from Arkansas can be the top 3% of their class, but be below 1300. Thus, it is not strange at all if on average if they are at 90%.
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And for every kid in Arkansas that is top 3% of their class below a 1300 there is probably someone in a hyper competitive school from say Vermont that is at the 20% mark of their class with a 1500 on the SAT. I don't see the reason why it wouldn't balance out in the end. If the bulk of the people admitted to the Academy were from Arkansas that would make sense, but that isn't the case. It's distributed across the country.
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I will give you 1 more reason why it doesn't balance out...Prepsters. Many are offered that option because academically they are below the direct admit option.
~ Let's say 100 of the incoming class are Prep. USAFA has for years now had an 1150 size class reporting on I Day.

That is 9%. Now, if they had a 1200 SAT or 26 than that will bring the score down.

In the end if memory serves me the median, not avg., was 660+ for Reading and 680+ M. Hence, why posters that are ALOs, like Flieger and Christcorp say aim for 700 at the very least.

For me, as someone that worked in the educational field. I would say if you are top 3% and only score 1250 or 27 on the ACT rethink USAFA. Or at the very least take the time and review the mandated curriculum for all cadets.
~ They don't call USAFA in the ADAF world the Little Engineering School in the Rockies for no reason.
~ I would also say that profs at college level are not like your AP HS teacher. They are not going to slow the class down if you don't get it. Don't get it than you need to meet them during their office hours or get tutoring help. They will just move on.
 
JestFutureFalcon said:
Thanks Pima. Looking back I do see that I was giving a holier than thou vibe. I need to take a chill pill haha
It's funny that I was calling him immature when I was being immature... Talk about irony. Lesson learned
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That is a true sign of maturity when you admit publicly you were not blameless, and accepting fault.

I remember one conversation Bullet and I had when he was an O4. He said to me that he would give his opinion to the CC, and than salute sharply when they disagreed with him. RHIP...Rank Has Its Privileges.
 
Thanks all who replied and we're helpful. I decided not to apply because honestly I most likely won't get in. Thank you all for you time.
 
17, it costs you NOTHING to apply.

All you know for sure is that if you do not apply, you won't get in. Don't let us discourage you. JUST DO IT.
 
OK my turn to jump in 17Lives. Please please please don't tap out and APPLY! Don't let anything here deter that and don't decide if you're competitive enough based on post here.

Most of the advice you find here is to get you into what I call the no-brainers club. I'm making up numbers here but think of the top 5% of candidates nation wide. The type of person that would get accepted to any university in the world type person. I'm exaggerating a bit for effect but I think you get the point. Most of the candidates fall into the rest of the group where there can always be room for improvements and we give advice based on that.

My son had ZERO athletics, ok gpa, ok ACT, and his CFA was slightly above average on most and average on two categories, in other words nowhere near the no-brainers. He is currently in his first year at the AFA and loving every minute of it and trying to make the boxing team. The point is he still applied and one comment sticks out the most when he was in your shoes "...I'm proud of my resume and if the AFA doesn't want me so be it. I'll find another way to become an officer." It wasn't said out of anger or throwing his hands up it was more a moment of him stepping back and knowing he did the best he could and was ok with the outcome.

Don't get me wrong there were a lot of emotional ups and downs. He didn't get a single nomination so he wasn't a direct entry and went to the AFA Prep school for a year. Fast forward a year and even after Prep school he still didn't receive a single MoC nomination! He got in because he made it through the Prep program.

Sorry for the part on my son's history there but I used it to give you an account of someone that if would have followed the post here would have thought what you thought and may not have applied.

Please Apply.
 
17Lives,

I think you should DEFINITELY DEFINITELY apply. Allow me to elaborate.

Other posters pointed out that your GPA may not be as high as it could be, and maybe you could involve yourself in more athletics.

So what? Your leadership activities are outstanding (arguably better than mine were). You don't have a perfect resume, but I bet pretty much all the 19'ers you ask would say the same about theirs...myself included. Honestly, I would be surprised if the AF didn't seriously consider your profile for either an AFA or Prep School slot. Not saying you'll get an appointment--nobody really knows at this point--but I think it's absolutely worth a try. Every single person is going to have parts of their application that are better than others. Others have said this already, but I'll say it again: in threads like these, people will purposely point out and HIGHLIGHT your weaknesses. Why? Because that's really what you care about. No one needs to be told "you're doing everything right!". The fact is that everybody who makes it to this stage is doing a lot of things right. What matters are weaknesses...things you can improve on and fine-tune.

Nobody is judging you based on your application's weaknesses--I can confidently say that if I were to post my resume here, our members would find plenty of points for improvement and would give me great advice for fixing them. I still got in. The point is that having weak points on your application DOESN'T mean you won't get accepted. If that were true, USAFA would be an abandoned ghost town. Know your weaknesses, work on them, and perhaps most importantly, know how to spin them to make a good impression. For example, if you were struggling in a particular subject, you could explain how it has allowed you to demonstrate tenacity and perseverance--good officer qualities. You have done oratory, so you could pull that off pretty easily with a little thought.

But none of that will happen if you don't apply. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE apply. I truly believe that you will regret it eventually if you don't. Trust me--regardless of what happens, you will be thankful if you take a risk for such a noble goal.

Good luck to you. PM me if you have questions about the application process. :D:thumb::cool:
 
I agree with fencer, boozebin and wildblue. The only thing you have to lose is time and an opportunity.

I would say one thing regarding how harsh this thread has been, you also need to decide if you are not applying because it appeared negative regarding your chances.

If so, than ask how badly you want to be an officer. It is something to really ponder, especially come next year when you are looking at plan B (ROTC scholarships). The hurdles you will have to clear every year as a cadet will only get higher.
~ You will see many miss the hurdles, but because they want to be an officer so badly they find another path where they can clear the hurdles. There has never been a 100% chance for commissioning source with USAFA or AFROTC. It is a 4 yr fight once in either program. The way you make it in my opinion is that you want it to such a point that nobody can tell you that you can't do it.

I hope you do apply, and I hope you get a slot. The reason why is attending may assist you at an earlier age in determining if this is a right fit for you. You could come back and say...No way Jose do I want to live that life for the next 4 years. Or you could say, I want this really bad and I need now to fix my weaknesses.
 
OBTW 17,

Since you found this site, let me give you 1 piece of advice for you and any 2021 applicant.

Take that SAT and ACT everytime you can as a junior.

I can't describe how perturbed I get when I read posts in the fall that basically say:
~ I took 1 SAT/ACT as a junior, and my MoC application closes 10/15 will my new scores get there in time? Or the will my Dec. test scores be included.

Just me as a parent, my kids were basically done with ACT/SAT by June their junior year. If they took it in their senior year, it was only once. They were able to put to bed their college applications by the 1st of October.
~ If memory serves me, my younger two were taking an exam every month from Jan. to June as a junior. One month it was the SAT, the next it was ACT.

Get in front of those tests now if you can afford it. It is a no harm no foul because they superscore.
 
17Lives, I believe you have the potential to come here. I too once thought I was ready for whatever this place had to throw at me, but be warned, this place will chew you up and spit you out. It is very crucial that you learn how to juggle everything and bring all you have to the table, every single time you breath. The admissions standards are there for a reason, just be sure that this is what you want. I was similar to you, but the one thing that separated me from every other candidate who didn't get in was my work ethic and attitude. You have to want to come here more than anything in the world, even when you think you can't take anymore, you keep going no matter what. Admission chances may seem bleak, but you have to push against all odds. That's what the admissions is looking for.

I would get involved in everything I possibly could, and I would make every effort to show my interests in the military. Keep doing great in JROTC, you do not need sports to get you through that portion of the process, if you're really good at it. As for grades, take the hardest courses you can, and prepare yourself for the level of academics here at the Academies. SAT and ACT is big, yes, but if you show your maximum effort in that with consistent improvement, that's what they like to see. Improve at all times... Get involved in your community, and show the impact you have on that sector. Officers are leaders of character, and if you have positive impact on everyone you meet, you will be a great asset to the military. Look to improve others more so than yourself.

Last but not least, realize that you're going to be in the military. This is not just a college, its a way of life. You want to leave here better than the way you came as a scared freshman in plebe summer. You're going to be gone for a long time; you will have more responsibility than any other freshman in any other college. They will expect you to act under pressure, at all times. You will not be doing it alone though; there will be 1000 other freshman going through the same struggle as you.

I just want you to understand why it's so hard to get into an academy. It was one thing getting in, but the struggles to stay in are much worse. Can you handle that, for your dream of graduating from one of the most prestigious schools in the world? Think long and hard; if you doubt yourself, then don't bother coming here. If you want this bad enough, then let the games begin, my friend. This application is only a testament to the level of character you think you possess.
 
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17Lives said:
First of all, are you a graduate of any service academy? No, you aren't. So therefore, you honestly you are in no position to say whether someone is competitive or not considering you don't even have an appointment yet. I'm fine with not being brought down gently by people who have ALREADY been and my shoes and knows what it takes versus someone school is practically in the same boat as I am. I noticed your post a few weeks ago and saw that you basically has JROTC for the majority of your EC/leadership background, so you really aren't one to talk about diversity. If you take a look at he resume you can see that everything I do has a different background: DIVERSE. I'm aware that my GPA and community service are not where they should be but taking that into account I wanted to know if I had a shot. (I know people who got in with 2.8's, doesn't mean that they weren't competitive ) What I wanted was for someone to tell me exactly what I asked and the people above did that.
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True colors coming out there, buddy?!?! Your reply is truly antagonistic. If you can't handle a little constructive criticism on a web forum, how are you going to handle the hazing to follow 24/7 at the academy? You cop an attitude like this in the military, let alone at the academy/ROTC, they'll chew you up and spit you out. You do this in pilot training, you'll get a big bullseye on your back and on track to wash out. If you miraculously get through the program somehow, you'll end up with a low flight commander's rating which can drop your class standing by 20%. That could be the difference between a UAV and a jet assignment. Being a military pilot is kind of like being in a fraternity-you must earn the right of passage and more importantly, no jackasses allowed. Military officer training is hard enough; you don't want to highlight yourself in a negative way. Your JROTC experience doesn't shine a candlestick to the wrath of **** coming your way, if you are fortunate enough to attend the academy. I've witnessed classmates during pilot training, both men and women, break down and cry. Some of my best and sharpest friends have washed out and/or quit. I've seen students break down and literally cry in the jet when I was an IP. Btw, I was "Santa Claus" in the jet.:rockon: Air Force motto, fly-fight-win.... what's that mean to you? We are in the business of killing people (bad people) and this mission can only be executed by people who are level headed and those who can function under extreme pressure. But then, you already knew that.

In regards to your question, I see two issues that stand out: 1) You lack athletics. You are a junior in high school and you haven't been on a single sports team?!?! Not good. It's a little too late but you can always start. It's not a game ender but it's a huge downfall for a candidate. Even more troubling is, how do you think you'll do on the PFA? And for some miraculous reason, let's say that you get accepted to the academy; how do you think you'll get through the first few weeks of "hell"? You can perhaps try a club sport and at the very least, start a serious workout program to include jogging and weight lifting.
2) Not a big deal-GPA of 3.33. I see that you attend a magnet school. Until the admissions office crunches out a "actual" GPA/score based on your school's curriculum, no one can be sure. You're just going to have to wait to see where the chips fall on that one. Top 15% will help.

As you can tell, I don't sugar coat my comments. I'm not old but I am a bit old school. If you're fortunate enough to make it all the way through and achieve your goal, hopefully you'll see where I'm coming from. You've made your bed and now you'll have to lie in it. All you can do is apply and see what happens next. Live and learn!
 
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17Lives said:
First of all, are you a graduate of any service academy? No, you aren't. So therefore, you honestly you are in no position to say whether someone is competitive or not considering you don't even have an appointment yet. I'm fine with not being brought down gently by people who have ALREADY been and my shoes and knows what it takes versus someone school is practically in the same boat as I am. I noticed your post a few weeks ago and saw that you basically has JROTC for the majority of your EC/leadership background, so you really aren't one to talk about diversity. If you take a look at he resume you can see that everything I do has a different background: DIVERSE. I'm aware that my GPA and community service are not where they should be but taking that into account I wanted to know if I had a shot. (I know people who got in with 2.8's, doesn't mean that they weren't competitive ) What I wanted was for someone to tell me exactly what I asked and the people above did that.
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I think you have a great point. There are some great posters here that have given you super advice, and maybe more encouragement than one might expect with your defeatist attitude. There are also posters here with absolutely no experience and no first-hand knowledge, unless you count bring able to read.

Work hard, and trust your gut. BUT... if you decide to move forward, do so with all of your heart. In another thread I recently told you not to apply because you're wishy washy. If you can rededicate yourself, go for it. You could turn out better than some "experts" that have given you advice.

It is a wonderful education, and the most noble of callings.
 
17: you still have not answered the question about athletics.

Have you still decided NOT to apply?
 
T.Valiant said:
It's hard to believe the average class rank is "top 3%" and only 66% are members of the National Honor Society, Beta Club, etc (BTW, USNA reports the same stat).

Regardless, the stats are interesting, but don't really predict who will receive an appointment. The sample size is too small and each individual's WCS has too many variables.
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T.Valiant, some of those percentages may seem off because smaller schools, like my DD's, do not even offer NHS, student council, athletic letters, or even band/orchestra. Homeschoolers also do not have access to most of those but do figure into the academic profile.
 
T.Valiant said:
It's hard to believe the average class rank is "top 3%" and only 66% are members of the National Honor Society, Beta Club, etc (BTW, USNA reports the same stat).

Regardless, the stats are interesting, but don't really predict who will receive an appointment. The sample size is too small and each individual's WCS has too many variables.
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They don't predict an appointment as you point out. Howsoever, how is the sample size too small or hard to believe? For USNA, it is the entire class of 2019...all 1,191 of them.
 
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