Am I in a competitive District / State?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by parkm2071, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. parkm2071

    parkm2071 Member

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    Hi, I'm in Hillsborough, NJ (08844). It's NJ's 7th District and I have Representative Leonard Lance, Senator Corey Booker, and Senator Robert Menendez. Also, as extra information, my father and aunt went to high school with Senator Corey Booker. Thanks
     
  2. mja2014

    mja2014 Member

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    No one can answer that, the only person who would know is the person in charge of nominations in your senator or congressman's office.


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  3. USNAco2019hopeful

    USNAco2019hopeful Member

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    yes we live in a extremely competitive district.
    Also Lance already announced.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    No flaming, but I would not consider NJ as extremely competitive. They will duplicate nominations....IOWs, Lance and Booker might place you on their slates.

    Competitive areas, like VA will have 750+ just for the Senators. The MOCs talk. That means one nomination from your three options is probably your best odds. Some Congressmen won't partake in talking, so maybe a few slip through, however, it is rare.

    That is what people here mean by competitive. It is a all relative.
     
  5. baileydb

    baileydb Member

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    I'm glad to hear that there are other states that won't double nominate. Here in CO, you get a max of one nomination to each SA because the nominating sources coordinate (something I wasn't aware of until AFTER all the apps were in and interviews done). Purely out of curiosity, MOC nominations must be a lot less competitive than a Senator's, right? I am asking because I got an MOC nomination to both USAFA and USNA, but one Senator already rejected me and the other probably will (I believe this is the case because I have a friend who already heard from the Senator and got a nomination to USNA. I am assuming this Senator is waiting until after the Holidays to give out bad news). Also, I am still confused about the nomination and appointment process. Is it that each nominating source can have 10 nominees for every vacant slot he/she has? If this is the case, wouldn't your chances still be just 10% once you have a nomination?
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Yes, for every slate only one can be charged. Theoretically if there are no LOAs and the LOA candidate had the highest WCS than yes, it is ten percent chance of being charged to that MOC. However, if the LOA does not have the highest WCS, than they will be still appointed, but not charged and someone else will be charged.

    There are slates where 7 or 8 can be appointed....only one will be charged, but some will have a Presidential, some could have a ROTC, at least one will be VP and some will come off the national pool.

    I don't recall the numbers, but I believe about 4300 candidates will get a nomination, and out of that 2000-3000 will be classified as 3Q. From there @1300 will be given an appointment.
     
  7. Momof4

    Momof4 Member

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    Pima- you mentioned for every slate, only one can be charged.I'm very new to this process, so please forgive me. I thought for one slate 10 could be nominated, with one principle, but the remaining 9 remaining candidates still have a chance of receiving an appointment. I may have misunderstood what you explained. The breakdown you gave with the amount of nominations makes an appointment seem more realistic. I assumed candidates would be competing with approx 11,000 other hopefuls. Thanks so much for your help, this forum is helping me remain calm during this waiting period. :)
     
  8. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Your understanding here is correct. Let say 3 people on a MOC's slate receive and appointment. Only 1 can be charged to the MOC, the rest are charged elsewhere perhaps anothor MOC, a Presidential nomination, a VP nom etc.
     
  9. Momof4

    Momof4 Member

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    Ohhhhh, I did not realize that only one could be charged to the MOC. I'm feeling nauseous again. My son has a MOC and JROTC nom. He does not have a presidential or VP nom. His ALO has 5 candidates he is working with, would they all be from the same state? Thanks for your help!
     
  10. Kirkmanj

    Kirkmanj Member

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    Dear Momof4,

    Only one nomination is needed and you appear to have two, so are in great shape. No worries. Charging will affect who gets credit for the nom, but will not take away the nom the candidate received.

    Congratulations to you DS!
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Yes, all of them would be from the same state in your case. There are some unique cases that they maybe from a different state.
    ~ For example a child where their parents are currently stationed overseas, or if you live somewhere that straddles two congressional districts.

    Our DSs ALO had @13 kids, half of them lived in one Congressional district and the other half lived in another, but all of them had the same senators.
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Don't worry about who gets charged to what. That's not important. All these slates have so many that can be charged. E.g a MOC state only gets one charged to them. But the other 9 can still be considered for an appointment in the national pool. The appointments from the national pool aren't charged to anyone. Those are additional appointments required to fill the class. Around half actually.

    So it doesn't matter if the MOC lists their slate as principal with the rest competitive, or all 10 competitive, or all 10 ranked #1-10. Whichever nominee gets the appointment from that slate gets charged to that MOC. The other 9 go to the national pool. If one or all 9 of them get an appointment, they aren't charged to anyone. It's not needed.

    The reason for charging to a MOC slate, is because federal law says that no more than 5 cadets can be at the academy at one time that are charged to a MOC. This is to keep it fair so all states and districts have an equal percentage of cadets that they are charged for. The rest come from presidential nominee, Rotc nom, prior enlisted, or the national pool. Remember, the national pool still require a nomination, but if appointed, it isn't charged to a MOC slate.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree don't worry about the charging. I know a couple of years ago, that there was a No. VA cadet, and on I Day they had said 8 from their Congressional slate were there.

    In the end once they arrive on IDay nobody gives a rats arse because the slate is wiped clean. How you got the appointment no longer matters, being able to stay and commission becomes the priority.

    We have many friends that Bullet served with over his AF career and I think in all of those years, only once did I remember a conversation regarding how they got the appointment....LOA, Principal, MOC, etc.
    ~ It all came about because one of our friends was an LOA....he is an impish type of guy. Everyone asked him how he got an LOA?
    ~~ Easy he replied....I got the TWE the year earlier! :shake: and they must have realized their mistake, so they corrected for the next year!
    ~~~ IOWS, 15 years later he still didn't know why and nor how he was charged. He didn't care either!
     
  14. Momof4

    Momof4 Member

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    I guess I am worried because if he is competing with 9 other candidates for an appointment, I assumed being the principal guaranteed the appointment and the remaining 9 were "possible candidates" based on how they measured up and how many the MOC had in the academy. I did not realize they were entered into the national pool. Thanks for the info!

    If his ALO has 5 candidates, is that all who applied from our state, or could there be numerous ALOs in one state?

    Pima- That is a great story! Yes, I am sure once you're appointed, you begin to focus on being the best you can be, not how did this one or that one get here!
     
  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    There are lots of ALO's in a state. Each ALO is assigned certain schools. I myself have 10 candidates.

    Back to the previous question: You need to look at the appointments as 2 categories. 1) Appointments from SLATES; and 2) Appointments from the national pool. First thing to realize is that ALL SLATES are individuals who have NOMINATIONS from that slate. Example: Your senator gives 10 nominations. Those 10 are on that senator's SLATE. 560 people (example) have presidential nominations. They are on the presidential SLATE. 120 people (example) have ROTC nominations. They are on the ROTC SLATE. Etc... Each Slate is authorized to be charged "X" amount of appointments. Senators and Representatives SLATES are authorized 1 appointment per slate. So; assuming for the sake of argument, that all 435 representative and all 100 senators in the country submitted 1 slate each with 10 names, potentially, that would be 5350 nominees. Reality; that isn't quite accurate because many individuals may be on more than 1 slate. They may have a nomination from both senators and/or their representative. Also; not all senators and representatives might be submitting a slate, because they may already have 5 cadets at the academy currently, and each can only have 5 cadets at the academy at one time. (5 that are charged against their slate).

    Now; assuming 1 each from those 535 slates gets the appointment, that still leaves on average about 650-700 more appointments to go. The presidential slate can have up to 100 appointments. The ROTC slate can have up to 20 appointments. There's also a few other military related SLATES. The key word is "UP TO". The academy doesn't have to give 100 presidentials or 20 ROTC slated appointments. Just like there's also UP TO 85 enlisted personnel applying that can receive an appointment. This number is usually closer to around 50. But it CAN BE UP TO 85.

    Add these to the 535 appointments (1 each for the 535 senator and representative slates) and you're probably in the number of around 700. That leaves about 400-500 appointments left to be given out. ALL those people on the senator/representative slates, who didn't get that one appointment for each of the 535 slates, will go into the "national pool". From there, the academy ranks all of those remaining individuals from the highest score to the lowest, and they offer appointments as needed to get the class size up to the number they want. (Usually between 1100-1200; but each year can be different because of other federal laws that say how many cadets there can be and how many can graduate).

    That is an over-simplified explanation of the appointments. As for a "PRINCIPAL" nomination: There are 3 ways the senator or representative can present their slate to the academy. The majority of them simply present a list of 10 names in no particular order. This is called "COMPETITIVE SLATE". The academy looks at the 10 individuals and the academy picks the individual to offer the appointment to. They have to pick someone. The other 9 go into the national pool. The 2nd way the senator or representative can present their slate is the "RANKED ORDER" method. The senator/representative ranks the individuals in order from #1 - #10. The academy MUST give the #1 nominee on that slate an appointment; IF S/HE IS 100% QUALIFIED. If they aren't qualified, then they go to the #2 person. etc... The remaining nominees after the appointment is offered, goes into the national pool. The 3rd method is a pseudo combination of the 2. The senator or representative will decide on their #1 person. The senator or representative will call this person their "PRINCIPAL NOMINEE". Again, the academy MUST choose this person and give them an appointment IF THEY ARE 100% QUALIFIED. In this scenario, the other 9 individuals aren't ranked. They are competitive. So if the #1 (Principal) nominee isn't 100% qualified and they don't get the appointment, then the academy can choose any of the remaining. The others go into the national pool.

    There is a caveat that many don't know. If the academy offers an appointment to the senator or representative's slate; (However of the 3 methods provided), and the individual with the appointment either changes their mind later and turns it down; or between the time of accepting the appointment and going to basic training the individual becomes UNQUALIFIED because of grades, injury, drugs, crime, etc... The academy doesn't have to go back to that SLATE and choose another individual. They can simply offer another from the national pool. And all those in the national pool; usually around 2000-2500 individuals; are competing for around 400-500 slots.

    Again; this is partially a simplified explanation. There is so much to the appointment process that I couldn't possibly explain the whole thing to you. Some senators/representative can have more than one slate in a given year because they only have 3 cadets at the academy. Some quite or are kicked out. So the next year, the senator might submit 2 slates. That's 2 appointments. (They are SEPARATE SLATES. Possibly some of the same names on both. Possibly not). And again; any individual given an appointment from the national pool DOES NOT COUNT AGAINST A SENATOR OR REPRESENTATIVE'S Slate of towards their maximum of 5 cadets at the academy.
     
  16. onesooz

    onesooz Member

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    Thank you for the great explanation, all in one post. Very helpful!
     
  17. Usafamom2016

    Usafamom2016 Member

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    Chriscorp, just one more question that has occurred to me. The '5 persons per Congressman' at the academy, I presume that is per district. Meaning, congressman A has appointed 1 each the last 3 years then loses election to congressman B. Does congressman B have 3 assigned to him at the academy already when he takes office?


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  18. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Yes, the congressional or senator's "SEAT" can have up to 5 at the academy at one time. Doesn't matter WHO the senator or representative is.
     
  19. Momof4

    Momof4 Member

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    Christcorp- Thank you so very much for such a detailed explanation! This should have a thread all to itself, so new people to the site can refer to it, to understand the process. I had to re-read a few details, because it is complicated to absorb. Wow! Hopefuls are so lucky to have you as an ALO, you definitely know your stuff! I still feel uneasy as to my sons chance to receive an appointment, not knowing who he is up against, and how many candidates from our state. I bought a book for my DS that is very helpful, I wish i had bought this prior to beginning this process, lots of details. My son was off to a late start, after receiving a nomination from his high school. He thought he would be meeting with the congressman and his staffers when he went for his nomination, not a panel of 8 retired high ranking military members. He has been well trained by his JROTC instructors for this type of interview though. I found the details of this in chapter 8 of the book! Better late than never.....

    Thanks again!
     

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