Americans tune out as Afghan war rages on
- Thread starter WAMom68
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"Salting the Earth". How many know that historical context
"War is Hell" = Sherman = spent a few years proving it.
Gatling = Gun
Isandlwana could have used a few more Gatlings.
Not sure the Brit's had any there...if they did, I'm sure there were never uncased as the slaughter was pretty serious!
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
(No, I didn't WIKI that, I know the battle)
AF6872
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I am so baffled by the direction this thread has taken.
AF6872
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EDelahanty
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The original focus of this thread was the inattention and ignorance of our fellow citizens about the ongoing war in Afghanistan. Even this thread was unable to stay on subject, instead diverging to themes of Yer Either With Us or Against Us, Blow em Back into the Stone Age, and British Military Disasters Against Pre-Industrial Opponents (Rorke's Drift excepted).
After the thrills the public enjoyed in November and December 2001 over the use of the devastating weapons known as daisycutters, all that remained to engage our interest was the 2002 Afghan assembly with the exotic appellation of Loya Jurga, at which Hamid Karzai was declared the country's leader. Karzai was introduced to those paying attention at the 2002 State of the Union speech. The subject of Afghanistan largely disappeared until briefly resurfacing in the 2008 election when it was cited by some as a good war in contrast to the bad war in Iraq.
This loss of national focus should not be surprising if you understand that the country's favorite attention grabber is stories about Missing White Girls, especially if the media can pick a scoundrel we can direct our hatred at as the likely cause of the disappearance. You may recall in late August and early September 2001 the country was raptly focused on the whereabouts of vanished Chandra Levy and the hounding of her lover Rep. Gary Condit. Oh, and don't forget American Idol, which debuted in 2002. Maybe we should have required that anyone voting for their favorite performer would have to have voted in a political election. On the other hand, maybe not.
The other problem is that Afghanistan and its history are complicated, which is not our strong suit. You will know more than 99+% of the country merely if you read a few Wikipedia or Free Dictionary articles about subjects such as the Anglo-Afghan Wars (the first of which was linked to earlier on this thread); the Durrani Empire; the Soviet war in Afghanistan (the Soviets arguably had a more justified - that's not to say legitimate - interest in what was going in Afghanistan than the U.S. had in Vietnam); the Hazara people; Hamid Karzai; and Ahmad Shah Massoud (the anti-Soviet, anti-Taliban leader assassinated by al Quaeda in the days before 9/11).
The worst thing is that there is no ready solution (well, there is one, actually: the Mongols used it in Herat nearly 800 years ago after the populace revolted. Those who didn't die during the successful siege were later marched out into the desert and slaughtered). We have few reliable friends in the country or region and lots of ill-wishers, the best government we can find is demonstrably corrupt, the enemy is not a single force or ethnic group (the Taliban is simply the largest but by no means the only opposition), the enemy is patient and willing to engage in a despicable level of brutality to achieve its ends, and after over ten years of our trying it is doubtful a motivated national army can hold the country. Yet if we leave, chances are the country will revert to civil war and could once again house the relics of al Quaeda. Finally, whatever we end up doing will be used as political fodder by whichever party is not in power.
After the thrills the public enjoyed in November and December 2001 over the use of the devastating weapons known as daisycutters, all that remained to engage our interest was the 2002 Afghan assembly with the exotic appellation of Loya Jurga, at which Hamid Karzai was declared the country's leader. Karzai was introduced to those paying attention at the 2002 State of the Union speech. The subject of Afghanistan largely disappeared until briefly resurfacing in the 2008 election when it was cited by some as a good war in contrast to the bad war in Iraq.
This loss of national focus should not be surprising if you understand that the country's favorite attention grabber is stories about Missing White Girls, especially if the media can pick a scoundrel we can direct our hatred at as the likely cause of the disappearance. You may recall in late August and early September 2001 the country was raptly focused on the whereabouts of vanished Chandra Levy and the hounding of her lover Rep. Gary Condit. Oh, and don't forget American Idol, which debuted in 2002. Maybe we should have required that anyone voting for their favorite performer would have to have voted in a political election. On the other hand, maybe not.
The other problem is that Afghanistan and its history are complicated, which is not our strong suit. You will know more than 99+% of the country merely if you read a few Wikipedia or Free Dictionary articles about subjects such as the Anglo-Afghan Wars (the first of which was linked to earlier on this thread); the Durrani Empire; the Soviet war in Afghanistan (the Soviets arguably had a more justified - that's not to say legitimate - interest in what was going in Afghanistan than the U.S. had in Vietnam); the Hazara people; Hamid Karzai; and Ahmad Shah Massoud (the anti-Soviet, anti-Taliban leader assassinated by al Quaeda in the days before 9/11).
The worst thing is that there is no ready solution (well, there is one, actually: the Mongols used it in Herat nearly 800 years ago after the populace revolted. Those who didn't die during the successful siege were later marched out into the desert and slaughtered). We have few reliable friends in the country or region and lots of ill-wishers, the best government we can find is demonstrably corrupt, the enemy is not a single force or ethnic group (the Taliban is simply the largest but by no means the only opposition), the enemy is patient and willing to engage in a despicable level of brutality to achieve its ends, and after over ten years of our trying it is doubtful a motivated national army can hold the country. Yet if we leave, chances are the country will revert to civil war and could once again house the relics of al Quaeda. Finally, whatever we end up doing will be used as political fodder by whichever party is not in power.
EDelahanty
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Parts of this thread read like Finnegans Wake.
That's an insult to James Joyce.
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The turn that this thread took was really disappointing. I was ignoring the thread as it didn't violate any "rules " until I read the Stars & Stripes article below his morning. That article reminded me of exactly what the OP posting this thread was decrying.
As EDelahanty pointed out below:
Want something to have a stream of consciousness to write about? Try this:
http://www.stripes.com/quadruple-amputee-soldier-fulfills-promise-greets-his-combat-unit-1.187841
As EDelahanty pointed out below:
It is beyond pathetic that our country has service members at war- and even many of the members of this forum apparently don't care and would rather talk about nonsense than discuss the sacrifice those personnel are being called upon to endure. You could have written in support of the war as it is being fought, you could have written how you think the war should be wrapped up tomorrow and those soldiers brought home, you could have talked about why we should or shouldn't be there, or how we wound up where things stand today- all of that shows that you actually care about the war and what your soldiers are doing. But for members of this forum to hijack a thread about the nations lack of interest in this war is appalling and those of you who can't even sustain a serious conversation about what you as voters have directed your soldiers to do should be ashamed of yourselves for your apathy which you demonstrated by turning this into some load of baloney about trivia.
Want something to have a stream of consciousness to write about? Try this:
http://www.stripes.com/quadruple-amputee-soldier-fulfills-promise-greets-his-combat-unit-1.187841
scoutpilot
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I think Bruno makes a very valid point. For a multitude of reasons, Afghanistan feels like a much lonelier venture for us. When I first went to Iraq, the American people were very engaged. That was natural, I suppose. It was the beginning of the surge and there was great question as to whether we'd succeed. It was also 6 months before the disaster of Lehman Bros. and the collapse of peoples' financial lives. The second time, people cared much less. The surge was ending. The rules were changing. Home wasn't doing well.
There's a different feeling to Afghanistan, owing to a number of factors. The greatest among these is likely the disengagement of the American people. As others have pointed out, it's somewhat natural and expected. 10 years is a long time. Children who were so young that 9/11 had to be explained to them in kid-glove terms will be going to college next year. Parents have lost jobs. People have lost homes. Life has gone on. That's ok. We know it. It's hard to feel less love from the homefront sometimes, but we're not stupid. We get it. Our own families are just as exhausted by being patriots about all this.
Speaking as someone who's spent multiple years engaged in this fight, I can honestly tell you that we don't want you to stop living your lives. We don't. We don't expect America to stand by and cheer us on with the full vigor of the nation. We want to come home to a strong and functioning America. We want to come home to happy families and growing children. We want next year's Mustang to have more horsepower. A year or more in a foreign land means that the one thing we want in spades when we return is a big, boisterous, smiling America. The kind of America that says "Have a beer and let's eat some fried stuff!"
We can beat this horse to death, and likely already have (to include some, shall we say...interesting...ideas on how best to fight the war). When all the dust has settled, all we can ask is that you do your best to show respect to those who've undertaken the burden of years away from hearth and home to fight the fights of the country. That is all we can ask. Personally, I think America as a whole has done a good job of treating us well and making us feel appreciated.
If the nation can do just enough to make sure we don't have a generation of disaffected veterans like the post-Vietnam era, that would be a tremendous victory for the long-term health of our military and our people.
There's a different feeling to Afghanistan, owing to a number of factors. The greatest among these is likely the disengagement of the American people. As others have pointed out, it's somewhat natural and expected. 10 years is a long time. Children who were so young that 9/11 had to be explained to them in kid-glove terms will be going to college next year. Parents have lost jobs. People have lost homes. Life has gone on. That's ok. We know it. It's hard to feel less love from the homefront sometimes, but we're not stupid. We get it. Our own families are just as exhausted by being patriots about all this.
Speaking as someone who's spent multiple years engaged in this fight, I can honestly tell you that we don't want you to stop living your lives. We don't. We don't expect America to stand by and cheer us on with the full vigor of the nation. We want to come home to a strong and functioning America. We want to come home to happy families and growing children. We want next year's Mustang to have more horsepower. A year or more in a foreign land means that the one thing we want in spades when we return is a big, boisterous, smiling America. The kind of America that says "Have a beer and let's eat some fried stuff!"
We can beat this horse to death, and likely already have (to include some, shall we say...interesting...ideas on how best to fight the war). When all the dust has settled, all we can ask is that you do your best to show respect to those who've undertaken the burden of years away from hearth and home to fight the fights of the country. That is all we can ask. Personally, I think America as a whole has done a good job of treating us well and making us feel appreciated.
If the nation can do just enough to make sure we don't have a generation of disaffected veterans like the post-Vietnam era, that would be a tremendous victory for the long-term health of our military and our people.
mellowgator
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I commend TPG for keeping his legs off to show the severity of the situation in Afghanistan. As a w-c user myself I find your comment insulting to all disabled people.
scoutpilot
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Can we please not re-start a peeing contest? His point was not at all about the broader spectrum of wheelchair users or intended to be insulting to the disabled.
First, thank you Scout for understanding my intent. It was not to insult, but more a personal plea to TPG not to give into the frustration with the public's disinterest in our troops and the war effort.
I multi-quoted the discussion and highlighted in red the part of the quote that led me to my comments. From his words, I would think that when he can, TPG wears his legs and on this particular day, he was feeling a bit discouraged and possibly giving in to the idea that perhaps people had stopped caring.
I was trying to give encouragement to do what he normally does (which is quite beneficial to the image of the whole veteran community including those who have disabilities) in his job.
I apologize if anyone didn't understand the intent of my post.