Another career bites the dust due to stupidity

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Bullet, Jan 2, 2011.

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  1. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/02/navy.videos/index.html?hpt=T2

    Sadly, this seems to e happening too often -- leadership acting like they're still part of the LPA (Lt Protection Agency; AF fighter community term for expecting our young Lts to stick together and lead moral for the squadron. Usually leads to them doing stupid things that leadership needs to step in and give a vector correction for, but they only get a wrist slap because they ARE young stupid Lts).

    Your days of being "one of the boys" were in your wake a LOOOOONG time ago, Commander. Act like it.:thumbdown:
     
  2. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Unbelievable. He was the XO when they were made, and now he is the Captain of a $5 Billion piece of US Govt property.

    A female sailor who was assigned to the Enterprise at the time said she and a number of other women on board were offended by the videos. She said some crew members complained about them, and in fact, Honors acknowledged it on camera. In one movie, he says, "Over the years I've gotten several complaints about inappropriate materials in these videos, never to me personally but, gutlessly, through other channels."

    He adds, "This evening, all of you bleeding hearts... why don't just go ahead and hug yourself for the next 20 minutes or so, because there's a really good chance you're gonna be offended."

    Then Honors tells his viewers to get ready for something that always pleases: "the F-bomb." The video goes on to show a string of clips edited together in which he uses the expletive.

    The next portion is a series of clips displaying Honors and other sailors, including officers, pretending to masturbate. It's set to a song called "Spank."

    After that, the video returns to Honors. "Finally, let's get to my favorite topic - something foreign to the gay kid over there: chicks in the shower," he says.

    He gestures to the person next to him - who, through a trick of video, is Honors wearing the blue coveralls of a Navy surface warfare officer, or SWO. SWOs include the officers who crew the ship; they don't include fighter pilots and other aviators. Repeatedly in the videos, Honors, a former Top Gun pilot, draws distinctions between aviators and SWOs and refers to SWOs as "fags."

    The video then shows two female sailors pretending to shower together and two male sailors pretending to shower together. While the shots imply nudity, they don't show any; the men are filmed from the waist up and the women from their shoulders.​

    The videos are posted HERE on The Virginia Pilot's website.

    (WARNING: Viewers may find some content of the video offensive. The Pilot has blurred some faces and masked profane language.)
     
  3. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    You all do realize that water conservation aboard ship is a huge issue.

    The timing of the release does cause one to suspect the motives of those involved.
     
  4. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Sure. But it still doesn't excuse him of being involved in actions one would expect from junior officers acting stupid. Simply stated, if he simply acted like the leader the Navy expected him to be, he never would have had something worth releasing later in his career that would come back to bite him in this manner.

    Obviously, he forgot there is a line between being "one of the guys" and being a commander. Judgment and setting the proper example should have been his motivation, not acceptance from the junior ranks through a bad sense of humor.
     
  5. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    If you have never been responsible for the morale of 6000 individuals stuck on a boat for 8 months with no liberty, don't be too critical.
     
  6. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Seriously? You're defending this XO's judgment with the defense of keeping up the troops morale? You're joking, right?

    Lot's of ways to keep up morale, blow off steam, build a team atmosphere without having to resort to low brow humor and sexism.

    It's a different military than what you and I grew up in. If this Commander couldn't get that, well perhaps he shouldn't be leading troop in it.
     
  7. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Do I need to repeat myself?
     
  8. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Hell, I'm one of the "Worst" when it comes to making "off-colored" remarks and trying to be "Funny". I usually get pissed at those who are too "Thinned Skinned". And even I thought the video was a little over the top. I can think of a dozen different ways to keep such a video funny, light hearted, even silly; without some of the innuendos that were implied. And it doesn't take commanding 6,000 sailors aboard a ship to know how to do that. Honestly; there isn't any level of command that should excuse crossing that boundary. If there is; then the Joint Chief of Staff or even the president could be excused for even more tasteless promotions and speeches.
     
  9. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Not really. Just trying to make sure for myself that you actually weren't joking, as to defend this Commander's actions just seemed beyond the pale.

    The fact that your sticking by your comments speaks volumes however...
     
  10. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    So squids use "boat" when they want people to feel bad for them but talk about their 2,000 ft. floating cities when they want to impress the ladies?
     
  11. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    I believe the theory is that as you climb the ranks you are supposed to get smarter, more nuanced and not just "one of the guys". The videos are all over the morning news- this guy's career is toast.
     
  12. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Here is the article from the Virginia Pilot - revised for today's publication.
    Take the time to read the comments - some are enlightening.

    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/12/raunchy-videos-starring-enterprise-skipper-come-light


    Obviously, Capt Honor's career is over. In context, I really don't think these video's are as bad as the media is making them out to be.
    When communicating the number 1 cardinal rule is to "Know thy audience". He knew his audience on a ship of 5800 sailors whose average age is about 20 years old.
    The content of these videos is really nothing worse than you would see on a HBO comedy show. They are full of inuendo but not lewd.
    I imagine that over 5000 sailors who are deployed for 15 out of 24 months, working 100+ hour weeks, away from their families, working in 100 deg heat, would stoop to toilet humor and joke about showers and sex. When you lose your ability to laugh in the most stressful and toughest of times you lose your sanity.
    One news outlet reported that the "Navy" had told him to stop back in 2007 and he did. Only now that it's out in public will Capt Honor's career suffer.
    All you who were critical of the Rolling Stone for ending Gen McChrystal's career should be equally critical of Corrine Reilly and the Virginia Pilot.

    Bullet - I am pretty sure that you have witnessed some squadron antics over the years that had they been videotaped would have ended some careers.

    Does anyone think that the timing of this is suspicious?? The Enterprise is due to deploy shortly - one news report said in a matter of weeks. The person who released these videos anonymously must have known that. Perhaps hoping to delay the deployment?
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    If that is what they thought than they don't know the military too well. All that will happen is a new commander will be put in charge. It is not going to stop a deployment, especially if they have a few weeks still left before leaving.

    The person who released probably had an issue with this person. We knew a Wing King who was selected for his 1st star. He got red-lined because someone way back in his career contacted their MOC and said as a Thunerbird commander he accepted a Ping Golf bag (personalized) and never reported it. The accuser came forward and said I could deal with him making it to O6, but not O7.

    I would be more likely to believe it is a military member who found this offensive and did not want to report to him personally.


    The other thing to realize even when asking if any of Bullet's CC's did things like this, is what happened even 10 yrs ago and was common place was not acceptable 3 yrs ago when this was made. The AF became very politically correct after the Clinton yrs. Call signs that were acceptable in 95 were not allowed in 05. (Yes, 1 Wing King in 05 made every squadron have a new naming ceremony to "fix" any name that could be seen as politically incorrect ~ some of them had their names for decades and had to get new ones because that is how PC it has become in the AF for those that are at the same rank as this guy was)

    As others have stated, as you go up the rank you are not suppose to be "one of the guys" anymore. His behavior was unbecoming of an officer.

    I am actually surprised that anyone can defend him especially after reading the link attached by JAM. Throughout the article many people stated they were offended by his actions AND worse yet he knew it! Yet, he basically called them gutless and bleeding hearts. Now, anyone who can say that is conduct of a leader and morale building needs to explain in full detail how offending the crew builds morale.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  14. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    An interesting take on the culture and environment that may have influenced his attitudes:

    And yet, Honors represents an old guard of senior officers who came up through the ranks in, ahem, "simpler" times. He's Annapolis class of '83, the first class to attend a fully male-female integrated Naval Academy (legend has it that his campus predecessors, the all-male class of 1979, wanted "last class with balls" inscribed on their class rings). While Honors was busy proving himself a talented combat aviator and test pilot, women were still struggling for the right to serve on warships and fly fighter jets—rights they didn't win until 1993. (The rancorous debate over women in wardrooms and cockpits led many conservatives to dig their heels in on gay service, producing the Don't Ask, Don't Tell compromise that same year.)

    By the time all of those stabs at institutional equality had been worked out, Honors was mid-career—probably set in traditional ways and senior enough that no subordinate was willing to tell him, "Sir, that's a bad idea."

    Nevertheless, these video spots were made when he was the Enterprise's second banana. At any point when these tapes aired, he could have been admonished—or at least gently prodded—to cut it out by the ship's commander, Captain Lawrence S. Rice. Yet Rice apparently never intervened, and I'm not surprised: He's a 1979 graduate of the Naval Academy, a member of that "last class with balls.

    Read the entire article HERE
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I definetly believe that he is the old guard, and there is nothing wrong with that IMPO. However, being old guard does not excuse anyone from the lack of common sense. It isn't like the military does not hold mandatory sexual harassment briefings once a yr.

    The well he was too high up to be told that is offensive is complete BS. Here's why:

    As an officer in that position, I bet he has had to deal with sexual harassment issues. If he has had to reprimand a sailor for something that is even remotely sim. to these skits, than he knew full well that he crossed the line. He chose to ignore Navy policy to be one of the guys. He chose to place subordinates in an awkward situation and force them to live with his humor.

    For that I have no pity his career is over. He could be a darn good mariner and aviator, but that does not equate into being a good leader or OFFICER.

    This guy reminds me of a guy we knew. There is the Navy way and then there is his way.
     
  16. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Smart guys get out, make more money and influence the process. :wink:
     
  17. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I have to disagree here. I was sure the media was overreacting until i watched the video. It might pass for a JO generated video that quietly makes its way around the ship, but to have it from the XO, a captain, to the huge internal audience, is suprising.

    I'm not offended by the language, this is cleaned up for ship talk, where just about every other word is an F-bomb.

    The shower scenes....and words describing sexuality is what gets me. Not appropriate, even on the generally rough world of underway mariners, to come from the command.
     
  18. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    I am really not upset by the contents of the videos. Mostly harmless. Even Corinne Reilly, the Ledger-Star reporter who broke the story, stated in an interview that she really saw nothing wrong with the videos, it was the seniority and position of the person who delivered them with which she had issues. Remember, these happened every Saturday night for sixteen or so months. The clips you are seeing is only someone’s idea of the very raunchiest.

    From my previous posts, I forgot to mention that the back-to-back extended deployments during which this is reported to have happened was in support of our efforts in the Indian Ocean, weeks and months of continuous operations in very hot conditions. Hardly the time or place for teamwork building morale exercises.

    After, between facebook and a few other sources, reading literally thousands of reader comments, a few things begin to emerge. He was a fair and competent leader. The troops, especially the enlisted, looked forward to these Saturday night episodes. Those who have been deployed under extreme conditions for extended periods understand the morale issues and how these videos can be productive and are in support of the skippper. Those most critical, for most part have never been on a ship or even served.

    Captain Honors is a well-liked and respected skipper. He has been instrumental in getting the oldest ship in the Navy operationally ready for an extended deployment in the Mid-East. Both the Airwing and the ship have set several records during workups in preparation for this deployment. If Capt Honors is relieved, it will do irreversible damage to the well being of the crew and the ability to accomplish it’s mission. His superiors realize this. One or two with a little backbone and he may retain his command.
     
  19. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Yeah, we need more Aircraft Carrier CO's using the word "fag." I'm sure all the gay sailors who are no longer under the constraints of DADT feel really comfortable serving for such a person.

    And his depictions of male masturbation, complete with dripping white paint, were sure to please the female crew. Knowing their CO is fantasizing about them does wonder for their morale, I'm sure.

    What a mission. :rolleyes:
     
  20. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    As LITS mentioned- if a JO had posted this stuff you could understand it, smack them around with a local letter of reprimand and counseling and make some allowances. But this is a Captain. An O6 making a video with this stuff in it, prefacing it by saying - "you will be offended" (and the inference is: "TS you are stuck with it it if you are"), and on one video insulting people who have complained about it for not having the guts to do it to him officially?? You are not supposed to have to make allowances for the antics of a senior commander- they are supposed to be above reproach- in fact the Commander has to be above reproach because as the UCMJ authority they are going to sit in judgement of others. In this case, you can already envision the defense for any fraternization or harassment issues including the command climate that the Captain established and encouraged with this foolishness.
    NOT a chance in the world that this Captain has a career left or that this ship will leave port with him in command. Not only is his career toast- Right now the Navy has to be asking if the previous Captain - now RADM has a career left either for not having stopped this while he was in command.
     
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