Another Nomination Question

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by Bill1899, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. Bill1899

    Bill1899 Member

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    I have been trying to figure out the nomination process, I have read all the old posts and posted a few questions and I thought I had it figured out -- And then I read the statement below on Rep. John Larson's website:

    "Candidates are appointed to the Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point on a statewide basis. Each year the State of Connecticut has five vacancies at the Academy and each Congressperson is entitled to submit the names of ten prospective candidates. Nominees then compete with the nominees of the rest of the Connecticut delegation for admittance."

    This makes it sound as if only 5 people from the State of CT can be at the USMMA at one time. Is this correct? Does he mean 5 vacancies for each incoming class? Even 5 per class seems like an extremely limited quota. CT has seven total members in Congress, this would not even give each MOC one principal nominee. Does every state have a 5 student limit?

    The more I learn, the more confused I am getting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank You
     
  2. Lynpar

    Lynpar Member

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    Bill1899. I feel your pain. Last year I was looking for these answers too. There is a document that explains ( sort of ) the state quota ( for lack of a better term ). I think I understood it to be more of a guideline thing. Not all spots are being used by the represented states therefore some states can have more than the number you see. Google around for info on appointments by state and you may find the documents I mean. They are actually sent to the nominating sources as a guide to the process. Also I lurked around and found my states parents association roster and was able to count how many students were from our area, what year they were and so on. All of this research really just busy work for me. :redface: ( it did nothing to help DS in the process it just helped me feel I was doing something I guess. As you know the nomination is just one part of the equation. However the best nominating tidbit of all was realizing ( thanks Luigi) one could apply to every House of Representative member in your state. In spite of the fact the staffs of the very members themselves may not know this ( diplomacy needed if encountered here). Unfortunately this tip may be a little
    late in the process for the 2016 applicants but anyone looking ahead should
    keep it in mind. In the landlocked middle of the country this info wasn't really at play but for a more competitive nomination area I can see where it could be. Also for DS, by the time the nomination packets went in he knew KP was the only academy he was seeking nomination for. Keeping in mind CGA doesn't require it. A full on national competition there, tough and getting tougher! I am sure the adults on the forum (ie, those who actually have facts) should be along soon! Good luck!
     
  3. Bill1899

    Bill1899 Member

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    Thank you. I am a junior so I think I still have enough time to get this figured out.
     
  4. WisconsinMMAMama2015

    WisconsinMMAMama2015 Member

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    Bill1899, CT will have 5 new slots to fill each year. (For example, here in WI we have 4 slots for each year and currently have 18 mids at KP.) Each state has a certain number of slots for each incoming class. However there are several states that either have no applicants in any given year or only one or two. Therefore there are usualy several "national pool" slots left to fill each year. Once your application is complete AND you have received a nomination, the academy will then decide if they would like you to be one of their primary candidates from your state. If so, your status will change to "primary". If you are well qualified AND have your nomination, but all of the slots for your state are full you may be "wait-listed". Meaning if one of the "primaries" declines their appointment or there are still "national pool" slots open, you may still be moved up to "primary". Hope this helps a little?:smile:
     
  5. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    USMMA applicants are appointed to the academy in proportion to the state’s representation in Congress. It is not a "one-to-one" allocation for every MOC, so you are correct, not every MOC can have a constituent at KP. (FYI - the allocation for Washington DC is 4 appointments, yet they only have 1 MOC, while New Hampshire only gets 1 appointment yet has 3 MOCs).

    Remember - EVERY MOC gets 10 nominations to USMMA no matter how may allocated slots are apportioned for his/her state. For example, California has 55 members in Congress and can theoretically nominate 550 candidates for 19 available slots.

    Here are the numbers for every state, territory, possession, and district:

    Alabama 4
    Alaska 1
    American Samoa 1
    Arizona 3
    Arkansas 2
    California 19
    Colorado 4
    Connecticut 4
    Delaware 1
    District of Columbia 4
    Florida 10
    Georgia 5
    Guam 1
    Hawaii 2
    Idaho 2
    Illinois 9
    Indiana 3
    Iowa 4
    Kansas 3
    Kentucky 2
    Louisiana 4
    Maine 2
    Maryland 5
    Massachusetts 5
    Michigan 7
    Minnesota 3
    Mississippi 3
    Missouri 3
    Montana 2
    Nebraska 2
    Nevada 2
    New Hampshire 2
    New Jersey 6
    New Mexico 2
    New York 15
    North Carolina 6
    North Dakota 1
    Ohio 8
    Oklahoma 2
    Oregon 3
    Pennsylvania 10
    Puerto Rico 1
    Rhode Island 2
    South Carolina 4
    South Dakota 1
    Tennessee 4
    Texas 13
    U.S. Virgin Islands 1
    Utah 2
    Vermont 1
    Virginia 5
    Washington 5
    West Virginia 2
    Wisconsin 4
    Wyoming 1
     
  6. NYBEAR

    NYBEAR Member

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    To Bill1899

    I am not surprised that the more you learn the more confused you become. The fact that 4 of the 5 service academies require "nominations" from ever changing, and many times, "disinterested or uninformed MOCs", is the real problem.

    Good luck to you and do the best you can with the hand you have been dealt. I apologize for not having a better answer.

    Only the US Coast Guard Academy has figured this out at this point. All national universities long ago figured out how to bring in a class with geographic, ethnic, gender, any other diversity that is politically expedient.

    There is no reason to believe that the service academies could not do this without the bogus requirement, in my opinion, of political nominations, as a requisite, to forward an application to the admissions office.
     
  7. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    Actually the Congressman's website is accurate, the way a nomination goes is each Member of Congress nominates up to 10 people they then compete first for the allotted number of spots for their state, which in CT's case i would assume for the site is indeed five. Then those remaining nominees without an appointment are placed into a National pool and compete for the remaining unfilled spots.

    There is no limit as to how many students can be appointed from an individual state however depending on the state the competition for the available allotted places in each class does vary. CT, NY, MD, and VA have often been four of the five most competitive as well as the state with the largest number of appointees in recent years.

    Finally no the number of allotted spots in each Class varies by the size of that State's population as well as the authorized size of that entering class.

    Hope this helps, good luck!
     
  8. Bill1899

    Bill1899 Member

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    Thanks for all of your help. My grades are good but not perfect, 3.6 -3.7 range. PSATs taken early in sophmore year were 600 math/610 vebal. I hope to get these up now that I have taken more math courses and will prep more for real SATs. It seems that I am within the overall range listed for the USMMA but a little low for the other academies.

    What I seem to be hearing is that from a state like CT, my scores are going to need to be a lot better than the national average - closer to the top of the median range listed for admission. Does anyone have any idea what the average scroes are of candidates accepted from the 5 most competitive states. Would I have a better chance at the USAFA even though there median scores are higher.
     
  9. cmakin

    cmakin Member

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    For what it is worth, my GPA in high school wasn't at the top of my class. Upper 30%, but not near the top. My SAT scores were much better, but there were those who looked at my math scores and said that they were surprised that I chose to persue an engineer's license, but I did and I got it.

    I think that I have stated how I got into KP all those years ago, but here I feel that it is worth repeating. In my junior year of HS, I decided that I wanted to go to the Air Force Academy. I went through all the processes, and when my Representative sent me the first form, it had a choice of the academies that I desired a nomination to. I picked AFA as my first, Annapolis as my second and KP as my third (I left West Point blank). I ended up getting nominations to all three of my choices, but was ignored by the Air Force, suggested prep school by Annapolis, but was considered an alternate to KP.

    Here is where one of your questions gets kind of an answer. I received a letter that told me I was first alternate for California (where I was living at the time) and fourth alternate for the US. It also further stated that i was "Likely" to get an appointment. A couple of days later, I received another letter stating that I was invited to orientation since I was appointed (?). A few days later I got my official notice of appointment.

    You are at the point where you can work on what you need to do. Good luck in whatever you choose. As far as my original choice of getting into the Air Force Academy, I feel no remorse. As the nomination/applicatioin process went on, I was becoming less enamored with a strict military life and the maritime industry seemed to be a better fit. I guess it is. I am still in it.
     
  10. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    While the nomination process that each nominating authority goes through is up to them, describing them as "political nominations" is in the vast majority of cases entirely inaccurate and unfair; further describing it as a "bogus" requirement is also inaccurate and unfair as well - the requirement for a nomination is a legal requirement and very much not "bogus."

    Finally, as an admissions field rep for USMMA I can safely say that regardless of politics and voting record, etc. over the past 20+ years, in three different States where we've lived, I have yet to run across a Member of Congress or their assigned staffers involved with the process who was disinterested and the only thing I've ever found them to be misinformed about were the few nuances which are unique to the USMMA (like they can nominate someone who is a resident anywhere in the State they are a Representative from.)

    I fail to see how anything in this thread would lead you to the conclusion that the requirement for nominations is in any way even contributory to any problems you might be trying to point to with any of the 4 Service Academies where they are required, let alone "the real problem". After all how many places where getting a job that's worth anything do you get that job without an interview and a review of your credentials, which is what in fact most Nominating Authorities require before issuing their nominations.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  11. NYBEAR

    NYBEAR Member

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    If the nomination process for each nominating authority is "up to them" as you suggest, that is the "real problem"....... Think equality of chance of opportunity of an appointment for qualified applicants? Is it fair that some have MOCs who help, vice MOCs who have no system or disjointed, confusing systems. There are over 500 MOCs with staffs that are changing all the time. Some are good and some are no good.

    When a politician selects a "nominee", as is the case for 4 of the 5 service academies, that is by definition a "political nomination". Can't get your application reviewed without it.

    Requiring a "political nomination" as a prerequisite to be considered for an actual appointment to a service a academy, is in my opinion a "bogus" requirement.

    Nothing in this thread brought me to any conclusions. I just felt the need to reply to the OP, who was becoming more confused as he tried to figure out the way in which he could secure a "political nomination". I believe that qualified applicants should be able to apply to all of the service academies without this hurdle and unfair limitation on where one can apply.

    I wish I could advise this OP, or offer better advice, but I can not. He is now at the mercy of his MOCs to give him the chance at KP, USMA, USAFA, USNA. My advice now would be to get the application to the USCGA completed right away.
     
  12. KP2013Momm

    KP2013Momm Member

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    Bill1899 You are smart to look into the process at this time, but do not worry about the numbers regarding noms and appointments. Do the best you can to be the most competitive candidate you can be. Complete the DODMERB and CFA, get you essays and applications in early. Plan an overnight visit to KP. We are also from CT so if you have any CT based questions just PM me. My son would also be happy to speak to you when he gets back from sea.
     
  13. aooga15

    aooga15 Parent

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    best of luck

    "Thanks for all of your help. My grades are good but not perfect, 3.6 -3.7 range. PSATs taken early in sophmore year were 600 math/610 vebal. I hope to get these up now that I have taken more math courses and will prep more for real SATs. It seems that I am within the overall range listed for the USMMA but a little low for the other academies."

    Bill1889
    You sound like a strong candidate. Best of luck to you in this process. I know it is very competitive. Let us know how things evolve for you!
     
  14. Bill1899

    Bill1899 Member

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    If I am reading everything correctly here, it seems that I would have the best chance of admission if I apply to both senator and everyone congressmen (5) in my state. That would give me a chance to compete on 7 different slates - Is this possible? I have also heard that sometimes the MOC coordinate their nominations and make sure that no one gets 2 for the same academy.

    Thanks again
     
  15. Ectriso

    Ectriso Member

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    You can only apply to the MOC that is assigned to your district. You can't apply to every congressman. So, your best chance would be to apply to both senators and your own MOC.
     
  16. Phil11

    Phil11 Member

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    One could also think of the nom process as giving all MOC a vested interest in each of the SAs, except the CGA. It keeps political support and perhaps helps with budgets. The CGA doesn't have this process but gets their admissions numbers scrutinized by some MOCs.
     
  17. aooga15

    aooga15 Parent

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    confused

    Bill1899, I sent you a pm
     
  18. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Not true.

    Applicants to the USMMA can apply for a nomination from any US Representative in their home state, as well as their 2 US Senators.

    The locality boundary for nomination by a Representative is the State in which the District lies rather than just the District itself.
     
  19. Lynpar

    Lynpar Member

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    Bil1899, yes you are reading it correctly. With USMMA you can apply for nomination from both senators and ALL Members of the House in your state, not just the district you live in. This is an oddity for KP none of the other academies requiring congressional nomination offer this opportunity. The information regarding this is NOT on the MOC websites correctly. I guess most of them are not aware of this. ( there are comments about how to handle that in earlier threads. Mine the forum site for earlier discussions) I learned of this on this forum and have seen it in print myself somewhere and if I can find it so can you. I suggest going to the academy website. Good luck! Besides with all the work it takes to get an application file complete, what is a few more copies, and postage, and essay, okay it is a lot of work but worth it. This is also good info to have when getting you letters of recommendation together and figure out what your high schools process is for transcripts. Can it be done on the web or is there a wonderful staff person in the high school office who is willing to help generate forms when needed. There are many postings and threads dedicated to that
    :thumb: good luck
     
  20. Lynpar

    Lynpar Member

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    Thanks Luigi, how come it only takes you a few words and paragraphs from me? Lol
    We were answering at the same time.
     

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