anybody with experience/knowledge about the following battalions?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by educateme, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. educateme

    educateme Member

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    My son is interested in following battalions:

    * Hoya Battalion - he will apply to George Washington U, American U (both Hoya Battalion schools)

    * Battalion in Fordham University (NYC) - he will apply to Fordham

    * Battalion in Syracuse University (NY) - he will apply to Syracuse

    * Battalion in Drexel University (Philly) - he will apply to Drexel

    * Battalion in Boston University (Boston) - he will apply to Boston U.

    * Battalion in Rutgers U (NJ - our home state flagship) - he will apply to Rutgers.

    These are the 7 schools he is going to put in the on line application. (Already submitted, but we are making a couple of changes in school choice).


    His SAT is 2040/2400 and 1340/1600.

    GPA weighted 3.85 (out of 4.5 - a bit lower than we wished for!!!). 3 junior APs and 3 more as a senior.

    Terrific ECs all in military stuff with national recognition. 500+ hours in community service

    Average sports stuff.

    All of these schools are more or less within the target range for his stats. Perhaps Boston and GWU are a bit more iffy than others (due to the GPA), but for GWU, he will apply early decision which will give him some bump in his chance.


    Any insight, feedback, suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. educateme

    educateme Member

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    by the way, other than Rutgers, every single one of the schools is a private school. Will this diminish his odds of getting scholarship given they are high cost schools?

    In NJ, I believe Rutgers is it in terms of Army ROTC. In most state schools, out of state tuition is approaching the private school tuition anyway. So, I figured, which ever way we look at it, his schools are all going to be high cost schools from the Army perspective. Does it make sense to you?
     
  3. goldfarb1

    goldfarb1 Candidate

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    Applying to all of those schools except Drexel, Syracuse, and BostonU (for NROTC though, so can't comment on the battalions).

    I initially had BostonU on my list, but took it out. It's way overpriced for what it is. I made the decision to not apply a few days ago--after getting one of the admissions recruiting letters. Tuition+room and board is 52k. But they picked the lowest housing and meal option in their calculation. Probably the worst dorms on campus, and one meal a day. Realistically, without the scholarship, the school is going to be 60k. 52k isn't realistic. BostonU is a good school, don't get me wrong, but can't justify a 60k/year price tag. With scholarship, room and board is going to set you back the price of a state school. I chose Rutgers to replace it, mainly because a lot of my picks are a little on the reach side.

    Now with this aside...Fordham, American, and GW are my main picks. I'm headed up to DC next weekend to interview at GW/American. My mom has a meeting in DC, so all we had to pay for was the flight. How often do you get a chance to go to DC for only $140?

    I finished up my USNA application during the summer so I could spend Aug/Sep focusing on applying to civilian schools. If I end up with a TWE from the academy, I want to make sure I have a solid Plan B. I've seen (on these forums and in real life) too many people put everything into one basket, only to be rejected and end up at a school they are unhappy to be at.

    It's interesting that he chose Syracuse since the other schools are in massive cities (or atleast a short train ride away). Syracuse is 4 hours from the city!

    My suggestion--Has he looked into Penn State? Maybe swap BostonU with Penn State? Just a thought...
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  4. gojack

    gojack ....

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    IMHO:
    Simple answer, yes this will diminish his odds of getting scholarship.

    Best chance for a scholarship is as an in-state student at a state school.
    AROTC uses a Low cost/High cost/20k model...
    20K (expensive/private school scholarships) are used for 'exceptional' candidates.
    Low cost scholarships are in-state tuition.



    Link.doc: Reserve Officers' Training Corps ARMY ROTC Scholarship Policy
     
  5. educateme

    educateme Member

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    gojack,

    I see your point. However, there are battalions that only serve private schools (like Hoya battalion: georgetown, GWU, AU, and catholic U are all private, though Catholic U, I heard is a bit cheaper).

    When I checked around, it's the hoya battalion that had most national scholarship candidates - more so than state schools. Similar pattern with Boston U.

    In those battalions, wouldn't my son competing among candidates who are all aiming for expensive schools anyway, so the high tuition issue is a moot point. Am I wrong?

    Also, we did put Rutgers as one of the schools.

    As for Penn State, it was in his list originally. However, he dropped it when he learned that Penn State is mostly GPA school when it comes to admission decision. Two thirds of the decision factor is GPA - they say so clearly on their web site. For my son, GPA is the WEAK point, while SAT is the strong stat. So, Penn State is a losing proposition for him: he is unlikely to get admitted since his GPA is at a low end of their admitted class, and he has NO hooks from NJ (over represented as an out of state student).
     
  6. goldfarb1

    goldfarb1 Candidate

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    Ehhh I would argue he has a decent shot at Penn State. Better than BostonU and GW. I mean in all fairness, their GPA average isn't a 4.0. If he has only taken 3 AP classes his weighted and unweighted averages aren't going to be significantly different. I guess his unweighted GPA would be somewhere in between a 3.3 and 3.5 out of 4.0. The weighted GPA doesn't matter at Penn State, only the unweighted. The avg GPA at penn state is 3.5. So he'd be right on the line for that. His SAT score would definetly push him over that line. I say you'd get more out of the $50 application fee from Penn State than you would at BostonU. From an admissions persepective, your son would pull the SAT average up. College Confidential has a sticky on class of 2014 acceptances, well over 50 people posted their stats. And quite a few had the high SAT and very average GPA, and got in. You could take a peak at that as well.
     
  7. educateme

    educateme Member

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    goldfarb1,

    you have a good point. thanks for sharing that insight with me. I will definitely reconsider Penn State. THANK YOU.
     
  8. educateme

    educateme Member

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    Related matter:

    these days, many well established state schools are charging out of state students a tuition that is fast approaching a level of a low end ($$$ wise) private school tuition.

    So, in this case, the only true meaningful $$$ wise consideration for the cadet command is the instate public school vs. private colleges/universities. Is it not?

    Or, would cadet command still favor a candidate who is applying to a public school as an out of state candidate because in most cases, the tuition is still cheaper than private schools by probably $10/hear or so.
     
  9. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Beyond the high-cost school issue (and I believe this is where the cutbacks will come - primarily in 3-yr AD scholarships instead of 4-year), you also have to look at where your son will be compared to other ROTC scholarship applicants applying to those schools. These schools may be out of scholarships before your son's number comes up, as units typically fill their scholarships with above average students for that institution.

    I advise that your son contact the ROO at these schools and ask about the GPAs/Test Scores of last year's scholarship recipients. That will give you a better idea of his "chances" than anything else.

    Another piece of advice... If he chooses to keep reach type schools in your list, make sure that a safety (Rutgers) is in the top 2 or 3 schools. I understand that PMSs can veto a candidate. If they are short of scholarships at Rutgers and it looks like a candidate will accept elsewhere (because you have them at 6 or 7 on your list), they may choose someone else from that board with a higher ranking of their school and your son may end up getting one of those letters (several people here got them) that say you qualified for a scholarship, but you have no schools at which it is awarded.

    If a safety school is high up on the list, a reach school will not look at them as much of a threat, so putting Rutgers up high won't have a similar reaction.

    Of course, if he isn't happy at Rutgers and being in that unit, it shouldn't be on his list...
     
  10. gojack

    gojack ....

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    I am not attempting to compare your sons scores to schools applied at,
    there is a web site http://college.mychances.net
    that offers pretty extensive analytics on 'chances'.

    It's my understanding that the board ranks the applicants in an national order of merit.
    Applicants at the top of the list are offered scholarships first.
    As the board works their way down the list, the top schools generally go to the top candidates.
    When they reach you, the question is how many of those slots to schools that you have selected remain open (if any), And do they think it is probable you will be accepted, and commission from there successfully.

    You will get many opinions/answers to you question, my advice to my son, was to pick only schools he would be happy to attend, w/two in-state, state schools that he was comfortable he would be accepted at. I also told him that the probability of getting both accepted and a scholarship at a 'long shot school' was pretty remote, and to save choices 6 & 7 for 'dream schools'. My son's backup plan is the SMP program.
    He is nowhere near the student that your son is. I feel that he will be much happier with more offers than 'settling' for his last choice.

    As far as detachments, nothing beats a visit and an over-night-er.

    In the end it comes down to how the strong the candidate and the luck of the draw.

    Just my opinion.
     
  11. gojack

    gojack ....

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    c. *Low Cost/High Cost/20K Distribution
    (1) *The designation of scholarships in tuition categories (low cost/high cost/20K) provides a cost control measure and addresses the difference between resident and non-resident tuition at state schools. *
    (2) *Headquarters, Cadet Command develops allocations based on tuition categories designed to control the budget and ensure congressional guidelines requiring 50% of scholarships go to resident students are met. *The cost break between high cost/low cost will be determined annually by Headquarters Cadet Command and published in Appendix K. *This break point does not constitute the actual value of an allocation. *The true value of a low cost, High cost or 20K allocation is dependent on the tuition and fees charged at a specific university.
    (3) *The PMS must ensure that:
    (a) *The total number of scholarship offers are awarded in the correct proportion in relation to available allocations.
    (b) *The total available allocations are not exceeded without higher headquarters approval. *An example of the flow of allocations from year to year is contained in Appendix B.
    (c) *The low cost allocations can not be used to award scholarships to students for whom tuition will be above the low/high cost break established by Headquarters, Cadet Command.



    CCR-145-1
    Reserve Officers' Training Corps ARMY ROTC Scholarship Policy
     
  12. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Gojack-thought that info looked a little dated. Look at the date of the reg you quoted. The 20K cap went away about 4 years ago. We still look at high cost v. low cost, but at a school like Clarkson my money gets diced so that I get so many scholarships at each school. I don't really play around with trying to make 4 low costs out of a high cost. All the schools on Edu''s sons list are in the Northeast. 2nd brigade has a higher density of high cost, private schools, and usually gets more than their share of scholarships (the army wants MIT and Harvard grads, along with Texas A & M and Florida I & T grads).

    That being said, it's very difficult to out think how the scholarship process will play out. My advice is find the best fit academically. You can't major in ROTC, and unless you are academically successful, ROTC will disappoint, when you can't get the active duty slot you wanted, and you have to find a real job when you graduate because you struggled academically and majored in Ranger Challenge. Didn't see what your son was planning to major in, which will have a factor in the equation.

    Those are all good schools with good ROTC programs. They should all have slightly less scholarships than they did last year (I know I"m planning on having slightly less).

    Finally, Princeton is in New Jersey (as our student section reminds them when they come to skate against our hockey team). They are definitely high cost though.

    OK...going to bed now.

    Good luck
     
  13. educateme

    educateme Member

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    clarksonarmy,

    Your thought input is very much appreciated.

    I have a question for you: your battalion draws students from four schools including Clarkson. Two SUNY schools and Clarkson and another private school.

    In your experience, do you see a pattern of Cadet Command giving scholarship to the kids heading to SUNY schools more than kids choosing Clarkson or another private school?

    Of course, there are a lot of factors. One school may have much tougher standard for admission and hence kids choosing that school may simply have higher GPA/SAT, etc, and as such they are more likely to get selected by CC all things being equal.

    Even so, do you feel that there is a pattern that seems to indicate that CC favors kids who are choosing public schools all things being equal?

    By the way, my son wants to major in Political Science/International Relations, and interested in Ranger or special forces - something dangerous and makes his parents wince.
     

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