Apply to West Point while on DEP?

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by Husky, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. Husky

    Husky Member

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    Hello, I am a high school senior and am applying to The Military Academy at West Point. I've used this website a few times for information regarding the process, so thank you all.

    I know everyone emphasizes having a Plan B. Whether that be ROTC scholarship, etc... In my case, if I do not get accepted, I would much rather prefer to enlist than do ROTC at a normal institution. I could go into detail as to why, however it's not important.

    So my question is: If I enlist in say, three weeks (when I turn 18), and enter the DEP ( Delayed Entry Program / Future Soldier Program), and get accepted to West Point in a couple months, can I immediately drop out of the DEP and accept my appointment? Also, do I have to let West Point know i'm on the DEP if I do enlist. I know they like to know if you are active duty, but what about people on the Future Soldier program? Also, I don't think this is possible but it's worth asking... Would they be able to accept me under their "enlisted" appointments? I know they never make their quota.

    Anyway, thank you for any responses, I greatly appreciate it.

    Husky

    P.S. the reasoning behind enlisting now instead of after I find out if I was accepted or not is because I want to reserve a contract that takes a long time to be available (Option 40).
     
  2. a2roxas28

    a2roxas28 Member

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    How far are you in the application process? To my understanding, if you do get accepted, the contract that you sign will be nullified. I don't think you are considered enlisted. You status is a future soldier. To answer your other question, I don't think you will categorized as being enlisted. One of the requirements is to complete basic training to be considered enlisted. I would focus as much as you can to make your file as competitive as you can. Do you have a nomination?
     
  3. Husky

    Husky Member

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    a2roxas28,

    I've sent off my nomination application, and am just waiting to hear back. To my understanding, I will have an interview soon, and find out around Christmas time.

    So do you think I have to let West Point know that i'm on the future soldier program? Obviously I will have to if in an interview they ask me what my Plan B is.
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Husky,
    1. You may hear around Christmas about a nomination. You may not hear until mid January.
    2. You probably will not hear about an appointment until about March, when the vast majority of the class gets their appointments.
    3. I do not know if you have to let them know about DEP, but I certainly don't see how letting them know about DEP could hurt you.
    4. I honestly don't understand why someone who is of obvious college calibre (since they're applying to West Point) wouldn't also consider attending a civilian college via ROTC to gain a commission. But you didn't want to go into it so I'll just leave it as being your business. Just had to get that off my chest.
     
  5. Husky

    Husky Member

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    kinnem,

    I know someone in the office of the Congressman I applied to, and he said around Christmas the decision is usually made. However, you are right it could be later.

    So entering DEP will not disqualify me from being appointed? Will I still be able to accept an appointment?

    Also, I wasn't trying to offend ROTC, I simply want to have military involvement after high school beyond what ROTC offers. I also want to be able to choose my branch/MOS and from what I've read West Point cadets usually get Infantry if they want it, where as ROTC it isn't set in stone. There are several other reason as well, if you truly would like to know why please PM me.

    Husky
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Just wanted to make sure you're aware it could be later. I'm not offended regarding ROTC, was just trying to understand your logic without prying. You may be correct about ability to get Infantry from West Point, I do not know. My own thought was it depended on where you placed on the OML but I have been known to be mistaken from time to time.... just ask my wife! What about a Senior Military College like VMI, Citadel, Virginia Tech, etc? Seems to me the experience would be similar to West Point, but what do I know?
     
  7. Husky

    Husky Member

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    Kinnem,

    Yeah I'm not too up-to-date on how selection of job goes for ROTC, I should probably do a little more research. I just remember reading West Point cadets wanting Infantry almost always get it. While it's the second most wanted job in ROTC and it's possible you might not get it. I guess it would be nice if someone could let me know if that's true or not. Anyway, I have looked at Citadel and others! I guess they just didn't get my attention like West Point. So you think it won't affect my application though (DEP)?

    Husky
     
  8. a2roxas28

    a2roxas28 Member

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    You can inform that enlisting is your plan B if West Point does not work out. Hopefully it does *knock on wood*. Also, you can let the nomination committee know about your other endeavors. It will show that you are serious about join the military. But no that there is a huge difference between enlistment and commission. Have an answer ready in case they ask why you didn't look at other commission programs.
     
  9. prest477

    prest477 Member

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    Say you don't get accepted to the class of 2018 and you decided to enlist, getting that appointment for the class of 2016 isn't guaranteed. Just because the enlisted slots don't get filled every year doesn't mean Admissions will just give them away. Once you enlist and sign that contract, the Army owns you and will do what they want with you, whether you like it or not.

    If you go to college for 4 years and don't do ROTC, you can still do OCS right after you graduate, and you still get that college education.

    Additionally, being a year out of academics and then immediately getting thrown into the craziness of plebe year is definitely not going to be easy.
     
  10. a2roxas28

    a2roxas28 Member

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    Prest477 is right. That's is why it is important to pick an MOS that you will enjoy. Also, it mainly depends on whether or not you can get your commanders endorsement and 3 SOE. This is time consuming for your chain of command to really see your performance. From being in the army for almost a year, most of the NCOs and officers want you to succeed, so they will be willing to work with you
     
  11. Stevewar2

    Stevewar2 Member

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    Enlisted

    If it was me, I would enlist as a linguist, go to Monterey and apply to WP or the Prep School from there (up to a year in school and it gets you proficient in a language and your in an academic environment). Knowing full well that you might have to serve your entire enlisted contract. Why? If you start ROTC, it will be very hard to leave the new life (school, friends, significant other, etc...). Also, the statistics are high for people who make it through prep school to get into WP. I enlisted Infantry way back when because only 50% of those guys had high school diplomas. I immediately stood out. A girl from my D's HS did not get in last year and is in an AF ROTC program. Her motivation and desires have changed this year.
     
  12. Husky

    Husky Member

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    A2roxas28, prest477, Stevewar3,

    Thanks for all the insight. However, if I enlist, I have no interest in doing it soley to try an get into West Point. I want to enlist with the Ranger contract and I'd pursue that. I would not try to get into West Point again while enlisted(unless I had a change of heart). I believe I am fairly competitive now, so if West Point doesn't want me now I don't see myself being more competitve in the future. If most of you think it won't negatively impact my application I plan on entering the DEP. Does anyone know some place or form that says I can drop out of DEP at any time? My parents would like to see this before I enlist so we know I can drop out and go to West Point if accepted. Thanks.

    Husky
     
  13. a2roxas28

    a2roxas28 Member

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    Keep your fingers crossed for the ranger option in your initial contract. I'm not sure if there is a specific form for dropping from your contract to attend West Point. There's a one form that is used to authorize an early ETS, but I'm not sure if that is the one. If your parents want a solid confirmation, you can try to email the soldiers admission officers MAJ Liehaber.
     
  14. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    If you decide not to pursue West Point while enlisted, you could run out of time. Don't forget you have to be younger than 23 before you start West Point.

    As far as I know West Point appointment trumps any military obligation you will incur from enlisting (some recruiters will tell you otherwise as they don't get credit for enlisting you if you don't complete certain phases of your enlistment). If you get some sort of signing bonus for enlisting, you might have to return it but won't prevent your from attending West Point.

    I know of a NG soldier that got pulled out of Afghanistan early to complete his application (He got an LOA).

    a2roxas28 is correct on contacting MAJ Liehaber.

    Lastly, if you are competitive now, being a soldier with your commander's endorsement (i.e. soldier nomination) and good SOEs will pretty much get you in. Your competitiveness changes because not your high school accomplishments changes, rather you are in a different competitive pool -Soldiers - and not competing against your Congressional or State peers. West Point doesn't take top 1200 candidates, it takes anywhere from #1 to #2000+/- based on different nomination categories.

    Lastly, be careful about what you wish for. My RC used to tell a story about a great applicant that enlisted with Ranger option and his Ranger Company commander refusing to endorse him because he wasn't Ranger qualified.
     
  15. Stevewar2

    Stevewar2 Member

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    Ranger

    The odds of making it through RIP (Ranger Indoc Program), successfully serving as a Rifleman in a Ranger Battalion, making it through the 2 month Ranger school are probably somewhat less than getting into USMA straight out of high school. You don't enlist in the Army to get into West Point. Just as you don't attend West Point to be a Ring Knocker. You enlist for a variety of reasons (duty, economic, personal, family...). However the standards for a current enlisted Soldier to get into West Point or the Prep School are lower than from any other source (except maybe a recruited athlete). If someone really wants West Point, they look at all roads toward that goal. Saying that, the Army needs smart people in the Infantry also. No one can be faulted for serving.
     
  16. Spud

    Spud BGO

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    Forget West Point. You want to be a Ranger. Not an officer but a Ranger and you don't want a college degree. You want to be a Ranger, and right now. Nothing wrong with that but why wait 4 years and go through all the hassle of West Point when you can be a Ranger right out of high school? The fact you want to enlist shows you are not interested in being officer. West Point is an officer school. So's ROTC. Why beat yourself over the head? Enlist and start lovin' it.
     
  17. Husky

    Husky Member

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    a2roxas28,

    Well I guess I don't need anything specific to the Academy, however, a form that at least says you are allowed to drop from the DEP. I will try to contact MAJ Liehaber.


    MemberLG,

    Like I said earlier, I have no intention of enlisting to try an get into West Point. If I do not get accepted this year and go active duty enlisted, I will not pursue getting into West Point. I will try to contact MAJ Liehaber though to ask if I get accepted to West Point while on DEP if I can attend West Point instead.

    Stevewar2,

    RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program) no longer exists. It is now called RASP (Ranger Assessment and Selection Program). I am planning on enlisting with an 11x option 40 contract. So I would go BCT>Airborne>RASP. I would not be required to go to Ranger School immediately. However, I probably would have to in the future. Like I said earlier, I am not enlisting in an effort to get into West Point (I agree it would be foolish).

    Spud,

    Thanks for the insight. Were you enlisted yourself? I still think i'd pursue a college degree though, however it would not take precedence over making it into Battalion, etc...



    Basically, I want to swear in on the DEP, and also apply to West Point. That way if I do not get accepted I have a Ranger Contract secure (since they take a while to become available). Either way I will be happy. I know there is a huge difference between officer and enlisted. However, West Point and Rangers are both the tip of the spear when it comes to their expertise.

    Thanks for all responses.

    Husky
     
  18. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Not to side track the discussion, but in my opinion true Rangers are Soldiers assigned to Ranger units. However, my understanding is that if don't have the tab, you are not treated well at the Ranger unit. So where does Ranger qualified soldiers belong on the scale?
     
  19. Husky

    Husky Member

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    Yeah like you said "true Rangers" are soldiers in the 75th Ranger Regiment, since they fall under the Army's SOCOM. However you will be required to get your tab or could get "kicked out" (what I've heard). So yeah you're right.
     
  20. Stevewar2

    Stevewar2 Member

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    True Ranger

    I've been a Ranger for over 25 years. I served in a Special Opns Unit, the 101st, and the 82nd, never heard of a "True Ranger". By that criteria, the WW2 guys who crawled up Pointe du Hoc (before Ranger School was formed) are not "True Rangers"? lol A Ranger is someone who has successfully completed Ranger School or served in a Ranger Battalion. Period (as our President says)
     

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