Appointments from National Pool

Acta non verba

When all else fails and you have nowhere else to go, try the ad hominem approach.

No attack intended.

I would only suggest that you look at the actions, not words from the naval academy leadership in regard to USNA admissions policy as demonstrated by the available data.
 
No attack intended.

I would only suggest that you look at the actions, not words from the naval academy leadership in regard to USNA admissions policy as demonstrated by the available data.
I have been a BGO for almost fifteen years, in the pits, making "naval academy leadership" policy work.

Each and every one of these years has been preceeded with a request to help them find minorities. After three or four recommendations that did not even result in the Regional Minority Officer contacting the candidate, upon my questioning, I was told "The purpose of Admissions is to interest the qualified, not qualify the interested", implying, to me, that my recommendations were not qualified. I raised my own personal benchmark. Still no contacts. Frustrated, I contacted the Regional Minority Officer again. This time I was asked "why should we interest someone who is not either qualified enough to win the MOC's primary nomination or be national pool competitive? We would be unable to offer them an appointment." Numerous personal observations of this process in action. It has been a form of the policy now in action in all the underrepresented districts for quite a while. I have seen it work/not work on many levels and instances. Minority candidates of USNA caliber are highly recruited by all the major elite colleges. They are not going to be recruited unless there is an opening and they are not going to fill out the paperwork unless they wish to attend. Hence high acceptance rates. Trust me.

Maybe the Koolaide remark is pertinent in that FOIA information thrown out to the public is only as good as those who interpret it. Don't be too swift to jump on the bandwagon of malcontents.
 
Last edited:
When all else fails, try the ad hominem ... :wink:

At least we know where the gator aid's been coming from.
 
Forgive me for boarding this boat already off-shore, but I was wondering if anyone knew if the following statement:

If he would have checked the right box on his admissions application concerning race, his chances would be significantly better.

applies to the U.S.M.A. as well? I am aware of the Outreach program at West Point (and the reasons for it to exist); however, I was wondering how strongly does one's race affect an application on the NWL, especially concerning vacancy winners (concerning nominations).

Thank you in advance!
 
Thanks!

I have been a BGO for almost fifteen years, in the pits, making "naval academy leadership" policy work.

Mongo - thank you for your service to the USNA as a BGO for such a long period. Your comments are thoughtful and provide a different perspective on the issue.
 
Forgive me for boarding this boat already off-shore, but I was wondering if anyone knew if the following statement:



applies to the U.S.M.A. as well? I am aware of the Outreach program at West Point (and the reasons for it to exist); however, I was wondering how strongly does one's race affect an application on the NWL, especially concerning vacancy winners (concerning nominations).

Thank you in advance!

Not sure I can answer your question. In fact I won't try. Perhaps I'm misreading your post, but vacancy winners are not on the NWL. Vacancy winners have appointments. No one can speak to nominations as
1. Ultimately they are entirely up to the MOC using whatever criteria they wish (yeah I know they have committees doing it but)
2. The racial composition of each district is completely different so I don't know how one could draw any conclusions without detailed demographic data on the district (at least).
 
Not sure I can answer your question. In fact I won't try. Perhaps I'm misreading your post, but vacancy winners are not on the NWL. Vacancy winners have appointments. No one can speak to nominations as
1. Ultimately they are entirely up to the MOC using whatever criteria they wish (yeah I know they have committees doing it but)
2. The racial composition of each district is completely different so I don't know how one could draw any conclusions without detailed demographic data on the district (at least).

Yes, I agree, but suppose one is on the National Waiting List - if s/he is chosen, wouldn't s/he be the "vacancy winner" for her/his nomination slate?
 
Yes, I agree, but suppose one is on the National Waiting List - if s/he is chosen, wouldn't s/he be the "vacancy winner" for her/his nomination slate?

No. Vacancy losers are placed on the NWL. People are placed on the NWL after the vacancy winner for the slate has been chosen. So I guess you could refer to the people who are selected off the NWL as "appointees". I'm sure there is some more recognizable term that people here "in the know" use.

Of course none of this has anything to do with your question about race.
 
No. Vacancy losers are placed on the NWL. People are placed on the NWL after the vacancy winner for the slate has been chosen. So I guess you could refer to the people who are selected off the NWL as "appointees". I'm sure there is some more recognizable term that people here "in the know" use.

Of course none of this has anything to do with your question about race.

Oh! I understand it now! Thank you for the clarification. I suppose one could say that each MOC makes one (or two) "easy" appointments (vacancy winners) and the rest of the slate (supposing 3Q'd) are put into the NWL according to their WCS (and POSSIBLY the race affects your NWL position)?

And that's okay! You corrected something that I didn't know I had it wrong!
 
Oh! I understand it now! ...............the rest of the slate (supposing 3Q'd) are put into the NWL according to their WCS (and POSSIBLY the race affects your NWL position)?
Somehow this has turned into a WP discussion. Don't know about WP but back to USNA. USNA feels that giving WPMs based solely on race is in violation of federal equal opportunity laws, and therefore, does not do it.
 
National pool and presidental nom

Sorry to bump and old thread but been search for an answer to this.

To be placed on in the national pool I understand you must be 3Q with a nom and not be the vacancy winner off the MOC slate, but what about those with presidental noms? If not selected as one of the 100 presidental are you also moved into the national pool or is that the end of the road? And what about a candidate who has a presidental and MOC? How could having 2 noms benefit a candidate if placed in the national pool?
 
Regardless of whether it is legal or fair is the question as to whether it is desirable as a matter of national policy. Should our military and officer corps reflect our nations population? As one who would be considered to be disadvantaged by a yes answer, I would still say yes.

I fully agree with kinnem. Even though I am aware that my appointment from the National Pool at both USNA and USMA may depend on the academy's need for more diversity, I would not have it any other way. The enlisted men and women of the army and navy need to be represented and lead by officers of all races and cultural backgrounds to upkeep the integrity and moral of our troops. I remember reading a post very similar to this one in the USMA forum and the argument can always go in two directions, there is no "fair" solution at this point. Would I be upset if I heard that my appointment was awarded to someone less qualified and a member of a minority race? Yes, but I can only hope that that man or woman will learn to become the qualified and outstanding officer all of America's academies have been able to produce for centuries. The admissions team knows what they are doing.

Good luck to everyone in the National Pool!
 
So I am not the primary from my MOCs. Does this mean I get sent to the national pool? If I'm 3qd and have a nomination what are my odds on the pool?
 
Back
Top