Arizona Governor signs new immigration law, Obama disagrees with the states rights?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Maximus, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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  2. Gumtech

    Gumtech Member

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    From Arizona

    Thanks goodness.
     
  3. vampsoul

    vampsoul Candidate

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    If you are here legally, you should have no need to worry. So, I fail to see what is wrong with the bill (the article slants it that way). AZ has a serious illegal immigration problem; they are entitled to do what they think needs to be done to solve it.
     
  4. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Even if you are here illegally, you are subject to the provisions/jurisdiction of the Equal Protection Clause of 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

    "... nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    And this law's "seperate but equal" type of enforcement has already been declared illegal by SCOTUS many times over.

    Right idea, wrong method.
     
  5. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Kind of ironic really. That a Republican Governor would sign this. :wink:
    My prediction:
    It will never stand up in court.


    What say you Maximus?
     
  6. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Yeah, Luigi I agree. That pesky little document called the US Constitution gets in the way.
    Imagine being stopped for going 35 in a 30 mph and the name on your driver's license says "Luigi".
    The officer must now ask for your birth certificate or legal resident papers and if you don't have them you are hauled off to jail.
     
  7. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Yeah, it's amazing how smart those old dead white guys were.

    Not only does it keep the "radical left-wing commie pinkos" from socializing the entire US Govt, it also prevents the "right-wing nazi religious nut-jobs" from rounding up everyone for deportation.

    :cool:
     
  8. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
     
  9. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    I say it was a brilliant move by the Republican Governor, make Obama address this issue on the federal level. America needs to protect her borders and if the Feds sit on their hands, push the issue the media wont, we're in election season and time to get the issues out there :thumb:
     
  10. Gumtech

    Gumtech Member

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    Arizonian with experience

    Unless you live here in Arizona, most of you have no idea what it is like. iIllegals drive down wages, most don't have auto insurance (which DH found out when one rear-ended him), get free health care, steal SS #'s, don't pay taxes, etc. NEED I GO ON? Being here in this country is illegal. Illegal doesn't mean race, it means AGAINST THE LAW.

    However, this board is for the service academies, so we need to stay on track....or at least I will. Good day all!
     
  11. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    :confused:

    Why would they "steal SS#'s if they don't pay taxes? I thought the SS# was used to get a job, and that job will deduct FICA and Medicare taxes from their paychecks. They will never collect those retirement benefits, therefore they are contributing money with no hope of collecting. They also are paying state sales taxes on everything they buy, so although they may not be paying INCOME taxes (just like 49% of legal American citizens), they are paying other taxes.

    Are you aware that the rights guaranteed under the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment to US Constitution extend even to those here illegally?

    When the Amendment was proposed, they could have easily used the word "citizens" instead of "persons" but they did not. Thus, even a person here illegally is entitled to due process and equal protection under our laws.

    Don't like it? Repeal the 14th.



    :cool:
     
  12. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    In some states, a SSN can help get you a valid DL.
     
  13. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Well said.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
    ARIZONA ALO
     
  14. Chockstock

    Chockstock "Forever One Team"

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    Agreed - the bill made a lot of sense to me too. But I'm sure President Obama and other politicians support measures like this one in private - except that Hispanics represent a large voting bloc and no one wants to jeopardize those votes :rolleyes: especially since legislative elections are this year

    Proponents deny that it will result in racial profiling but I'm going to bet that it will happen. I'm not sure why Hispanic-Americans are so critical of the law - if the protestors themselves are legally here, they should have nothing to be afraid of of being asked or confronted by an officer for ID. They have to realize that the stereotyping of Hispanics is a result of such an influx of illegal immigrants from Mexico/Latin America and its just something they'll have to deal with. I guess they dont understand how fed up most other Americans are when it comes to illegal immigration...its like the racial profiling of Arabs/people who look like Arabs at airports. Its really unfortunate, but the way things turned out in the past 10 years really changed their image in lots of peoples' minds :frown:.
     
  15. osdad

    osdad Member

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    Some years ago, my friend Pedro (Pete) Vasquez was denied entry to the US from Mexico because he "looked" Mexican. All he had with him to prove his citizenship was his drivers license. It took over an hour of talking to get them to release him....Fact: Pete was born in SATX. Shameful to be treated this way by the country he earned two purple hearts fighting for.

    If the opportunities were not here, there wouldn't be people trying to get here. Two things to do; improve the lives of those living in Mex & Central Amer and prosecute those who profit from hiring them. Does this bill do either? AZ benefited greatly from having all that cheap labor to build the expansion its seen in the last 20 years.

    History has shown that when things turn bad immigrants become the target. But they are not the problem. Who will AZ target if all the illegals are deported yet the problems remain?
     
  16. MakeItHappen

    MakeItHappen Member

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    Chock, in your estimation when did this stereotyping begin?

    In order to preserve our freedoms, do you think we should also profile persons who share the same physical traits as T. McVeigh or IRS bldg. murderer?

    BTW, this may be of interest to you.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick's_Battalion :smile:
     
  17. vampsoul

    vampsoul Candidate

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    It's an interesting debate. I talked to a few people about it today, and was not surprised to find the views on the legislation change depending on geographical location. A couple of people here on the east coast think it cause intense stereotyping issues. A few people I talked to who are from AZ, however, were just ecstatic that something was being done. They hope the legislation, regardless of what it says, will draw more national attention to Arizona's problems. I'm still formulating an opinion.
     
  18. osdad

    osdad Member

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    Law of Unintended Consequences: Legal challenge = years of delay = Congress thinks its OK to continue to do nothing = Oops!
     
  19. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    I don't live in AZ. But.... the city I live in has had a serious problem with illegal immigrants for over 20 years and now is in such dire financial straits they have been taken over by the state. ICE has a presence here but their resources are limited - as you know.
    In any case - I feel and understand your frustration and anger.

    HOWEVER - You should fear this law.
    Imagine this scenario -
    Your daughter has an activity after school and one of her classmates asks her for a ride home. Ths classmate lives near you and it's no trouble for your daughter and she happliy agrees. One the way home, she is stopped by the local police for going 41 in a 35. This would normally be either a simple warning or a minor speeding ticket........
    Under this law, the police officers is REQUIRED to questions all passenger's in the car. Are you a citizen and can you prove it? You have advised your daugther to carry her birth certificate and she whips it out. But you daughter neglected to ask her friend if she was a US Citizen before she gave her a ride. Both are now taken to jail and the passenger is charged for being in AZ illiegally.
    Your daughter is now charged also for transporting an illegal alien.

    The implementaion of this law effectively turns AZ into a police state - which is why it will be challenged in court and probably never go into effect.

    Maximus - your theory is interesting and I read one similar on the Huffington Post yesterday.
    I think it's misguided and to pass/sign this law on the premise that it will force the federal government to take action is short sighted.

    I read that the Senator from AZ, John McCain supports this bill. Perhaps he should support an increase in resources and the application of those resources to ICE.

    The big question is - what will we do with them all?
    Our County jail is bursting at the seams mostly because of illegal immigrants - they hang out there before they are deported which doesn't happen over night.
     
  20. futurepilot22

    futurepilot22 Member

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    I'm not going to give my thoughts on the law itself (suffice it to say that most of you would not agree)....but Senator Mccain's support is purely political, trying to help him win his primary. He's been tacking hard to the right for months now, going so far as to say that he is not a maverick, and never claimed to be. His blatant pandering to the right wing of his party at the expense of his own principles has been disgusting for me to watch, to say the least. Although I would've voted for Obama instead of him in 2008, I still had alot of respect for him as a war hero. Not anymore.
     

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