Arizona Governor signs new immigration law, Obama disagrees with the states rights?

Imagine Washington, New York, North Dakota, Vermont, Maine, Michigan, and the other northern border states decided that illegal Canadian immigrants should be subject to the same law. :eek:

Imagine the indignation, the outrage, the "how dare you stop me" behavior that every US citizen would engage in when the police start stopping white people ("May we see your papers, please?") who may have a Tim Horton's bag of donuts or a copy of the Toronto Star on the front seat of the car, or happened to be overheard talking about hockey and back bacon.

:eek:
 
I don't live in AZ. But....

Maximus - your theory is interesting and I read one similar on the Huffington Post yesterday.
I think it's misguided and to pass/sign this law on the premise that it will force the federal government to take action is short sighted.

I read that the Senator from AZ, John McCain supports this bill. Perhaps he should support an increase in resources and the application of those resources to ICE.

The big question is - what will we do with them all?
Our County jail is bursting at the seams mostly because of illegal immigrants - they hang out there before they are deported which doesn't happen over night.

Misguided??? Looks like Texas will soon follow and obviously for the same reason. http://www.ktsm.com/news/tx-politician-proposing-immigration-law-similar-to-az

BTW, the Huffington Post?

Answer to the big question: Do something! Other than nothing and claiming we need to punish American Employers with new laws for hiring them, that's poppycock! Oh and stop with the "greedy American Companies happy with cheap labor".

Your Tim McVey comparison: "Big Sis" is already profiling Tim Mcvey types as of last year, in case you missed the memo. Remember...ex-military, NRA members and tea party soccer moms lol
 
They are asking for documentation after a legal stop. The couple of times I've been pulled over I was asked for documentation and proof.

The "Slippery Slope" theories are getting real thick and something has to be done. This is doing something if not only getting on the radar again. Democrats will sit on their hands over this issue and it needs front page coverage....mission acomplished...big picture.

Imagine Washington, New York, North Dakota, Vermont, Maine, Michigan, and the other northern border states decided that illegal Canadian immigrants should be subject to the same law. :eek:

Imagine the indignation, the outrage, the "how dare you stop me" behavior that every US citizen would engage in when the police start stopping white people ("May we see your papers, please?") who may have a Tim Horton's bag of donuts or a copy of the Toronto Star on the front seat of the car, or happened to be overheard talking about hockey and back bacon.

:eek:
 
I'm not going to give my thoughts on the law itself (suffice it to say that most of you would not agree)....but Senator Mccain's support is purely political, trying to help him win his primary. .
Same with the AZ Republican governor. Nothing but politics.

BTW, the Huffington Post?
I would give you the link but I thought you read it. Let me know if you want it.
 
McCain

Futurepilot:
Here in Arizona we laugh how McCain appears to change his mind on things for HIS political gain. Most Arizonians see right through this, and don't be surprised if he is NOT re-elected in November. I know that I'm not voting for the phony.
 
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They are asking for documentation after a legal stop.

Herein lies the Constitutional concern. There are stacks of legal writings as to what constitutes a legal stop. It is a difficult if not impossible police action to determine reasonable suspicion/probable cause on the issue of being an individual who does not possess the right to be in this country without trampling the Constitution.

This is one of the basic tenets of our system of law and a concept that is frequently misunderstood by lay persons.

FWIW, people south of the border come in all shapes,sizes and colors; including blue eyes and light skin.
 
We have a similar law in our county in GA. When someone is stopped for a moving violation (or no tag, tail light, etc..), they must show a driver's license. Undocumented workers do not have a license. A check is done at this point, and if the person is here illegally, they are deported. Some illegals have left our county because they are too afraid to drive. Some of these people work hard, own homes, send their children to our schools, etc...but they are not here legally.
 
Herein lies the Constitutional concern. There are stacks of legal writings as to what constitutes a legal stop. It is a difficult if not impossible police action to determine reasonable suspicion/probable cause on the issue of being an individual who does not possess the right to be in this country without trampling the Constitution.

This is one of the basic tenets of our system of law and a concept that is frequently misunderstood by lay persons.

FWIW, people south of the border come in all shapes,sizes and colors; including blue eyes and light skin.

So the police are trampling the Constitution when they ask anyone for their DL?

Your reply is one of the basic tenets of the Liberal point of view, everyone is a racist (especially the police) except for Liberals lol

I have a good friend and customer in CT that left Venezuela when the Dictator showed up, and she has blond hair and blue eyes so, I know your FWIW is true! Thank you! lol
Hmmm, I'm from North of the Border and have dark brown hair and brown eyes, guess I'm not safe eh?
Golly MakeItHappen, every post you make here seems to be purely political, do you have any other interest in these forums...like a DS or DD in a Service Academy? :confused:
 
Max,

It's a Constitutional POV. If you wish to categorize it as liberal, so be it.

Easy on the racist charge, best not to generalize.

Law enforcement officials must have articulable reason to stop and ask.

After 20+ years around the criminal justice arena, suffice it to say I've seen excellent police work and police work that would make your skin crawl. The latter is why our system contemplates skilled defense attorneys. I've seen the guilty go free and innocent incarcerated. Our system is not perfect and we must continually strive at that goal. However, I don't know of a better system of justice on this planet.


This topic as well as many posts here are very political, just chiming in with my two cents.

Family members have been part of Texas fight for independence, WWI, Korea, Vietnam, and attended USAFA.
 
Max,

It's a Constitutional POV. If you wish to categorize it as liberal, so be it.

Easy on the racist charge, best not to generalize.

Law enforcement officials must have articulable reason to stop and ask.

After 20+ years around the criminal justice arena, suffice it to say I've seen excellent police work and police work that would make your skin crawl. The latter is why our system contemplates skilled defense attorneys. I've seen the guilty go free and innocent incarcerated. Our system is not perfect and we must continually strive at that goal. However, I don't know of a better system of justice on this planet.


This topic as well as many posts here are very political, just chiming in with my two cents.

Family members have been part of Texas fight for independence, WWI, Korea, Vietnam, and attended USAFA.

Luigi is arguing on the Constitutional POV, you seem to be cherry picking posts with an agenda since your first locked thread in the Naval Academy Forums counselor.

Now I'm really confused, first you say: "FWIW, people south of the border come in all shapes,sizes and colors; including blue eyes and light skin."
insinuating (the inflammatory FWIW tag) I/we didn't understand that there many different races south of the boarder, essentially calling me a racist, and then warn me to watch the generalizing :smile:
 
Luigi is arguing on the Constitutional POV, you seem to be cherry picking posts with an agenda since your first locked thread in the Naval Academy Forums counselor.

Now I'm really confused, first you say: "FWIW, people south of the border come in all shapes,sizes and colors; including blue eyes and light skin."
insinuating (the inflammatory FWIW tag) I/we didn't understand that there many different races south of the boarder, essentially calling me a racist, and then warn me to watch the generalizing :smile:

You sure are quick to get hot:wink: Nobody called you racist. Understand stereotyping has been a part of this thread in earlier posts.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I've lurked for a while and now have a whopping 11 posts on two threads!
Man, you busted me and my agenda. I was gonna be big, REAL big:shake:

I think you assume I am someone else, I'm not.
 
"Men Of Harlech Stop Your Dreaming" Look it up and reflect:thumb: Those in the Military do their duty as they are told, and they do it very well without political considerations.
 
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You sure are quick to get hot:wink: called you racist. Understand stereotyping has been a part of this thread in earlier posts.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I've lurked for a while and now have a whopping 11 posts on two threads!
Man, you busted me and my agenda. I was gonna be big, REAL big:shake:

I think you assume I am someone else, I'm not.


Trust me, I'm not hot :wink: I think I've made my point and most here see it :smile:
 
Can someone please direct me to the Constitutional clause, law, court ruling or whatever that mandates I carry proof of legal status on me at all times? Valid drivers license? How is a police officer in AZ to know that the New Hampshire DMV requires proof? What if I'm just back from serving my country in Guam and only have a license from that country?

Since you all seem to think its OK to have local police completely up to date on immigration law, why not pass a state law that it illegal to cheat on your federal income tax too. Just think how many illegals you can arrest then because we all know they don't file tax returns either.

IMHO this is the comfortably numb looking for a scape goat for systemic upheavals in our society. I've seen it before.
 
Never understood why CT requires valid photo ID to vote. Should have thought this would have been challenged a long time ago. Then again, If I live here and can prove citizenship I guess I can vote. All police ask for is "License & Registration". State doesn't matter as long as registration matches the plates. As far as I know a Guam drivers license is valid in the Continental US. A license from the EU is valid in the US just like a US license is valid in the EU as long as the rental registration is valid. Polezi or Guardi always ask that you provide documentation. Please provide your "Green Card", "Visa", "Student ID" and what's the problem? In the old days you used to have to surrender your PASSPORT to the hotel in France so they could inform the authorities as to whom was staying in their establishment. That was a B**ch. Where have you seen it before? Guam is not a Country.
 
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... All police ask for is "License & Registration". State doesn't matter as long as registration matches the plates. As far as I know a Guam drivers license is valid in the Continental US.

My point exactly. How is the AZ cop going to check the immigration status of the Mexican-American service member who just got back from Guam?


A license from the EU is valid in the US just like a US license is valid in the EU as long as the rental registration is valid. Polezi or Guardi always ask that you provide documentation. Please provide your "Green Card", "Visa", "Student ID" and what's the problem?

Except if you're from one of THESE 35 Countries in which case you don't need a visa. How it the AZ cop going to determine the immigration status of these foks?


... Where have you seen it before?

In 1989-1990 after the Wall came down, the German economy was hurting. The Browns (a right wing political party) focused their frustration on Turkish immigrants - sometimes violently.



Guam is not a Country.

And Massachusetts is not a state. :rolleyes:

Political posturing - nothing more.
 
We have a similar law in our county in GA. When someone is stopped for a moving violation (or no tag, tail light, etc..), they must show a driver's license. Undocumented workers do not have a license. A check is done at this point, and if the person is here illegally, they are deported.

Nothing wrong with this - at all. What this law in Arizona does is way overstep these bounds.
Now, they are free to ask all passengers in the vehicle for proof of citizenship.
If your son and his friend leave WalMart and the police thinks one looks "suspicious" they now are free to detain them and demand *papers*.
When did America turn into East Germany?
There is no way one can tell if a single person is a Citizen of the US or legal or illegal immigrant by looking at them. Nor by listening to them.
Since under the constitution law enforcement can't single out those who *appear* to be illegal immigrants - they will have to demand legal papers of everyone. It's simply ludicrous.

Maximus - on this discussion, you can't have it both ways. This has nothing to do with the military or serving in the military yet you initiated the post. It was purely political on your part - yet you accuse people who post in response to you of political motivation.

MakeItHappen - not sure why but Maximus thinks you are me. haha. I have politely attempted to calm his fears in his suspicion privately but I don't think he gets it.
 
There is a difference between proof of residency and proof of identification. Our friends DD was pulled over for a brake light violation, everyone was required to show proof of identification that was in the car with her. She and all her gfs are blonde, blue eyed, 17 yo girls, also military children btw. It is simply just the county code. The police officers are not targeting people, they are following county code. County states that the officers must ask for identification when the passengers appear to be appropriate age (they aren't going to ask the 8 yo in the car).

I honestly don't understand the big issue here. If you are here legally you would have no problem handing over an ID. Did I miss a beat, we are talking about ILLEGAL Aliens, and the word ILLEGAL means they broke the law!

I don't believe every illegal is a member of MS-13, or they want to take jobs away from hard working Americans, however, by entering without the proper paperwork, they broke the law. A law is a law. If you decided to move to Portugal, would you not expect them to deport you if that was thier law and you knowingly broke it? Are we now going to say it is okay to break this law with no punishment and not that one?

I also find it interesting because people don't realize that states have already found the loop hole to address this issue. For example, in VA you must show citizenship to obtain your license. Get in a car accident with no license, and that just opened you up to more questions. This creates a domino effect. MD now has changed their law because illegals were crossing the state line and getting a MD license because of VA's law. NC also changed their law, in NC they did it differently, to get a NC license you must have insurance when you apply, to get insurance you must prove citizenship. Wrap it anyway you want, but those 3 states have created a back door system to stop the flow of illegals.

My bet is if AZ gets through the federal courts finding this law valid, you will see NM, TX, CA, NY, and FL to follow suit.
 
If you are here legally you would have no problem handing over an ID
Are you prepared to carry your birth certificate with you at all times to show upon demand?
Imagine you decide to go to Sedona to find some cool SW art. A police officer stops you as you are strolling down the street. He decides you look *suspicious* and asks if you are US Citizen. You say yes then he demands your *papers*.
You cant' prove that you are a citizen and he looks at your VA driver's license like it's Greek and then he MUST arrest you and put you in jail, pending your proof, of course.
Welcome to fascism.

And what will Arizona do when their jails fill up and their is no more room?
 
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