Arizona Governor signs new immigration law, Obama disagrees with the states rights?

But PIMA - what if your friend did not have her ID? Would she have been taken to jail?

AF6872 - the US Consitution and the Mexican Constitution are two completely different documents. Don't confuse the two.
Illegal immigrants are put on trial and given due process every day in the United States.
 
This is scary. where I live there are a lot of US Citizens who do not speak English.
Will he be quizzing the occupants in the vehicle for their driver's license? Last I heard you don't need one to ride in a motor vehicle.


I would not say *ignored*. They have half heartedly tried a few things but it hasn't worked. The resources of ICE are extremely limited. Immigration courts are backed up for years and years.

One thing you haven't mentioned is giving ICE more resources to go into employers. Each employer is required to collect an I-9 with proper identification from each employee when they commence employment. Why are they not auditing employers? Why are they not demanding those on a work visa to update their I-9's?
No one wants to shut down a chicken processing plant or haul workers from the tomato fields and cause the business/farm to cease production.
JAM,

This is scary. where I live there are a lot of US Citizens who do not speak English.
Will he be quizzing the occupants in the vehicle for their driver's license? Last I heard you don't need one to ride in a motor vehicle.


I think what my neighbors meant here are that if for some reason the passengers were part of the stop, an investigation, etc. Of course when stopped, the passenger has no requirement to do much of anything other than sit there.

As for US Citizens that don't speak English...if they were born here and have never learned, SHAME on them! :eek: If they are "naturalized" citizens then I have a question:

HOW did they become naturalized when it's a requirement that they speak English to BE naturalized? :confused: This from the US Gov's own website:
Can you speak, read, and write basic English and do you have an understanding of U.S. history and government (civics)?
During your interview, a USCIS Officer will test your ability to read, write, and speak English and your knowledge of civics. Many times the reason applicants fail the naturalization test is that they cannot answer the interview questions in English.


I really don't think this law is that scary; but the media and certain groups are really demonizing it.

Its interesting...I asked one of the engineers that works with my wife about this. He was born in Mexico into a farming family, had to wait 8 years to move to the USA (his parents actually petitioned the USA for a visa), and has had a very successful career as an electrical engineer. Juan is VERY "Mexican" in appearance (his words) and I asked if this law worries him. He told me it does not because he understands it to mean ONLY if someone is stopped and THEN gives a reason for the officer to question.

As he said in his "latino" accented Texas TWANG..."Shuuut...They-all will prolly wanna see my Texas Passport..." :shake: (Juan's a funny guy)

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
KEY WORD ILLEGAL, They are not citizens in the US, they have no Constitutional rights. Their rights are tied to their citizenship, and as an illegal it is not the US.


Pima, this is wrong. Luigi is right on this. Trust me. Your allegation that rights are tied to citizenship is incorrect. For example, if you were in Iran, and were arrested under their Islamic law, you would not be given the rights afforded you under the US Constitution because they do not apply in Iran. Your US citizenship would not entitle you to US Constitutional protections in Iran. That is, your rights as an American do not follow you across borders. Conversly, a person in the US, whether here legally or illegally, is afforded constitutional protections.
 
Great Discussion

Great discussion on this topic. Frustration is high due to the inability of our federally elected leaders to act. However, IMO, this AZ law is the wrong vehicle to address a federal immigration concern and will not pass legal muster. There is a solution, but that would entail Congress to actually do some meaningful work (sigh). But we may be to blame; we mostly love our congresspersons, but hate Congress:confused:

I, for one, am tired of the erosion of civil liberties in the name of what is expedient.

Put succinctly:

More Government intrusion into our lives is not the answer.
 
@fieger -Puerto Ricans speak Spanish. They are US Citizens.

@MakeItHappen - I agree. The collateral damage from this law is just too great.
 
Nothing wrong with this - at all. What this law in Arizona does is way overstep these bounds.
Now, they are free to ask all passengers in the vehicle for proof of citizenship.
If your son and his friend leave WalMart and the police thinks one looks "suspicious" they now are free to detain them and demand *papers*.
When did America turn into East Germany?
There is no way one can tell if a single person is a Citizen of the US or legal or illegal immigrant by looking at them. Nor by listening to them.
Since under the constitution law enforcement can't single out those who *appear* to be illegal immigrants - they will have to demand legal papers of everyone. It's simply ludicrous.

Maximus - on this discussion, you can't have it both ways. This has nothing to do with the military or serving in the military yet you initiated the post. It was purely political on your part - yet you accuse people who post in response to you of political motivation.

Methane - not sure why but Maximus thinks you are me. haha. I have politely attempted to calm his fears in his suspicion privately but I don't think he gets it.

I don't want it both ways jam :smile:

I digress, this new law is doing exactly as planned, it's making Obama do something about it. We all know he won't, he'll just let Rohm start the arm twisting campaign but that won't work this time, they are actually going to have to do something this time dammit! lol :thumb:

BTW, 70% of Arizonians want to shred the Constitution lol
 
I need to ask you do you believe the minute they enter illegally into the US that they have revoked their right and privileges from their country?

I don't follow your question. What does that mean? :confused: Their right and privileges to do what? :confused:

Are you stating you believe they now in their mind are US citizens and must abide by US law and not be an accessory to a crime?

Still don't follow you. Whose mind and what crime are you talking about? :confused:

Isn't it against the law as a citizen to assist people who are illegal?

Not as far as I know, but if you can state the relevant part of the US Code, I'll come back to this question.

If so, shouldn't they immediately go to ICE and report themselves as illegal aliens, because they entered the country illegally?

No one in the US is required to self-incriminate.

Can you tell any of us, that if you assisted an illegal alien you would not be held accountable, and that you are not breaking a law? You are fundamentally saying that they can go Scot free, yet you are willing to go to prison.

Assist them in what? Murder? Kidnapping? Getting food and clothes and medical treatment? Helping a LEGAL alien commit crimes is a crime, I don't see any difference in how their immigration status plays a part. A crime committed by an illegal alien or a legal alien (or a US citizen) is a crime either way.

KEY WORD ILLEGAL, they knowingly broke the law, they know the risks. They are not citizens in the US, they have no Constitutional rights.

You may need to repeal the 14th Amendment if that is what you believe in, because it certainly is NOT the law of the land. They HAVE Constitutional rights, whether you want to believe it or not.

In Plyler v. Doe the SCOTUS stated in dicta that illegal immigrants are "within the jurisdiction" of the states in which they reside and added in a footnote that "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful."

Do you believe they are subject to cruel and unusual punishment? Do you believe they can be refused Habeas Corpus? Do you believe they are not entitled to legal representation when they are arrested here for a crime?

Their rights are tied to their citizenship, and as an illegal it is not the US.

No, it is pretty clear that their rights of Equal Protection and Due Process are NOT tied to their citizenship, but the jurisdiction, and no distinctin can be made as to that protection based on their legal or illegal immigration status. Plyer vs Doe was pretty clear about that.

Or do you think that an American's rights are also tied to their US citizenship when they violate a law outside the USA? There are many small time American drug users serving life sentences in Turkey who may disagree with you.
 
Hey look, Mexico is actually issuing a "Travel Warning for it's Citizens traveling in Arizona. With half a million illegal residents living in Arizona, it's time to do something.

*********************************************

By Jonathan J. Levin and Catherine Dodge

April 27 (Bloomberg) -- Mexicans in Arizona should carry documentation and “act carefully” after the state passed a law requiring local police to determine the immigration status of anyone suspected of being in the country illegally, Mexico’s Foreign Ministry said.

The ministry said the warning is directed toward Mexicans living, studying or planning to travel to the southwestern U.S. state, which shares a border with northern Mexico, according to the e-mailed statement sent today. It comes as members of U.S. President Barack Obama’s administration said they have concerns about the new law and may seek to overturn it in court.

“There is an adverse political environment for migrant communities and all Mexican visitors,” Mexico’s ministry said. “It’s important to act carefully and respect the local laws.”

The Arizona law makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. without proper documentation. The state has an estimated 460,000 residents living there illegally, the seventh highest total in the country, according to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Opponents say it will lead to discrimination and racial profiling by law enforcement authorities.

Arizona Governor Jan Brewer, who is running for re- election, signed the bill into law on April 23, saying it would address problems of violence along the border with Mexico and crime due to illegal immigration while protecting individual rights.

‘Murderous Greed’

“We cannot sacrifice our safety to the murderous greed of drug cartels,” Brewer said. “We cannot delay while the destruction happening south of our international border creeps its way north.”

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said during congressional testimony in Washington today that her agency has “deep concerns” about the law and that it will “detract from and siphon resources that we need to focus on those in the country illegally who are committing serious crimes.” U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said today that the Justice Department may go to court to challenge the statue.

The law, which goes into effect 90 days after the Arizona legislative session ends, states that police must investigate if they have “reasonable suspicion” that someone is undocumented, according to Gabriel Chin, a professor of Law and Public Policy at the University of Arizona in Tucson. Police officers may face lawsuits if they fail to do so, he added.

‘Angered and Saddened’

“It’s very hard for me to see how this law can be enforced without discrimination,” Chin said in a telephone interview today from Tucson. “It seems to be inevitable.”

Mexican President Felipe Calderon said April 26 that his country’s citizens are “angered and saddened” by the Arizona law, which he said “doesn’t adequately guarantee respect for people’s fundamental rights.”

About a quarter of Arizona’s 6.6 million residents are of Hispanic descent, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

U.S. Democratic Party leaders said last week that an overhaul of immigration law could advance through Congress this year if Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid can pick up enough support to muscle it through the Senate first, according to April 22 remarks by Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Pelosi told reporters that she will find the votes for the measure in the House -- where Democrats have 254 of 435 seats -- if the Senate can clear it.

Senator Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who has been working with Democrats on an immigration overhaul, said rushing legislation this year would be a mistake because it doesn’t have the votes yet to pass.

“The worst thing we could do is bring up immigration reform and have it crash and burn politically,” he told Napolitano. “If immigration comes up this year, it’s absolutely devastating to the future of this issue.”
 
I am not as vested in this subject as others, however, I can only state as a Mom who had to register her 3 kids in 8 different school districts from 95 to 08, I had to always prove residency. In the early yrs that meant showing a lease or mtg and a utility bill from a simplistic stand point. In our final yrs after 9/11 the Patriot Act came into play, because you could not get a home (rent or mtg) without showing acceptable photo ID. (discussed earlier). NO LEASE, MTG no proof of RESIDENCY. No proof ---no enrollment. OBTW, one middle school would not enroll one of our kids until they received official records from the previous school. For illegals, they are not going to be anxious to send the records since it may open the file to new questions, and highlight that they are illegal. Let's be honest, they would prefer to live in shadows if they are illegal.

Public schools can deny entry based on residency. Public schools can deny entry based on shot records. To say that it is law that public schools educate your child is wrong. A Public school can deny education based on your child not having an MMR or a HIB booster, they have that right based on health care issues---no OPV and no go for entry until you get it completed. They make the regs. Now, you can choose to circumvent the regs by home schooling and following the state reg, but the school has a right, it is done for the good of the students. To drive it home even more that the school system has control to a point...they can expel a child! Typically, for expulsion the child will be given the option to attend the bad juju school, but my point is they have loop holes too! Look at ZERO tolerance, the school decides what is acceptable limits. They are required to balance what is appropriate and what is needed. You may feel that HIB or menococal shots are detrimental to your childs health, but if the school says you must have it to enter, then you have to have it. You will lose that lawsuit saying it is law to allow them without the shot. Your law defense is theoretically correct, however, realistically it has flaws, especially from a Mom who got a letter from the Public HS 5 months ago that stated on X date our DS will not be allowed to attend since his Td was out of date.

We've experienced the exact same requirements in the 3 states we've lived in with children in school. Now that I see this info jam is digging up, what parent in his right mind would waste the money buying a house in a decent school district when all you have to do is place your kids in the best school system you can drive to and say....sorry we're illegals, class placement please lol
:thumb:
 
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This is scary. where I live there are a lot of US Citizens who do not speak English.
Will he be quizzing the occupants in the vehicle for their driver's license? Last I heard you don't need one to ride in a motor vehicle.

You need an ID (DL or non-operating ID) if you're in CT and asked by law enforcement for identification, driver or passengers, I'm pretty sure many other states have these same laws and obtaining a valid ID is clearly stated here: http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=805&Q=244720&dmvPNavCtr=|28089|
 
You need an ID (DL or non-operating ID) if you're in CT and asked by law enforcement for identification, driver or passengers, I'm pretty sure many other states have these same laws and obtaining a valid ID is clearly stated here: http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=805&Q=244720&dmvPNavCtr=|28089|

This link says nothing of the sort.

If you can show me the CT statute that states vehicle passengers must have ID I would appreciate it.

(PS - don't bother to look, there is no law in any state requiring citizens to carry identification of any kind. I'm not talking about driving a car or flying in a plane. Walking down the street requires no ID, nor does riding in a car.)
 
I'm sure that it has been said many times over these 8 pages(i havent read them all), but this kind of law paves the road to a police state. When liberties like this are taken away they are never given back.
 
@fieger -Puerto Ricans speak Spanish. They are US Citizens.

@MakeItHappen - I agree. The collateral damage from this law is just too great.
JAM,

I know Puerto Ricans are US Citizens and that the language there is Spanish. I was an exchange student in Spain with several students from Bayamon and we had great fun with the DIFFERENCE in our Spanish: I speak Castilian and they speak PRS (Puerto Rican Spanish) which is a bit different from "pure" Spanish (lots of native additions). I also know that English is taught from grade school age. And while there were some folks from PR that I met that had some difficulty with English, they were functionally fluent in the language.

So I reiterate my position: if you're a citizen and haven't learned it, SHAME.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
So I reiterate my position: if you're a citizen and haven't learned it, SHAME.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

The ability to read , write, and speak basic English is a requirement for naturalized citizenship.

Anyone born here (a citizen by birth) has no obligation to learn any language. It's called freedom. :beer1:
 
The ability to read , write, and speak basic English is a requirement for naturalized citizenship.

Anyone born here (a citizen by birth) has no obligation to learn any language. It's called freedom. :beer1:

No argument, it IS called freedom. I just happen to think its sad that someone born/raised here wouldn't learn the language. Now for the examples of places like Puerto Rico, the Navajo Nation, etc., if folks want to stay there and not learn English...then that is their right and I respect that. But then I don't want them to tell the government or anyone else that the USA needs to provide them with anything in their language as the language in use in the USA is English.

If you decide to stay in "your area" and only speak "your" language, that's fine. But don't then complain that you have a language barrier if you travel in YOUR country.

FYI...here's a fascinating fact I learned...

"...Approximately 337 languages are spoken or signed by the population, of which 176 are indigenous to the area. 52 languages formerly spoken in the country's territory are now extinct."

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Flieger - Isn't there a difference between shaming them and jailing them?

Of course your native language or your accent alone should not make one "suspicious" of committing a crime.
There are countless examples of people who are here legally but speak with a strong native accent. People who come here legally with no English skills but learn them. Even people who were born here and are citizens by birth but raised in another country.
 
But then I don't want them to tell the government or anyone else that the USA needs to provide them with anything in their language as the language in use in the USA is English.

The language in use in the USA is "predominantly" english. However, in business, from the Fortune 200 to sole proprietorships, the language that creates value for shareholders and turns a profit is used. Business execs. and small business owners usually balk at others telling them how to conduct their ventures.

BTW, I appreciate your candor and information on the boards.
 
Flieger - Isn't there a difference between shaming them and jailing them?

Of course your native language or your accent alone should not make one "suspicious" of committing a crime.
There are countless examples of people who are here legally but speak with a strong native accent. People who come here legally with no English skills but learn them. Even people who were born here and are citizens by birth but raised in another country.

I won't even shame them JAM, that's my "opinion" but I won't walk up to someone and say "I think you should speak English...shame on you." Not my business and frankly, not my style.

But..we don't jail people for not speaking English either.

In Arizona this new law (IF it becomes law) won't either. What it will do is allow a LEO to "question" someone about their legality IF there is PROBABLE CAUSE to believe they are here illegally.

A DPS officer stops a car, the driver doesn't speak English, or speaks it very poorly. The officers ask for DL and proof of insurance. And the driver hands them a DL from Puerto Rico or any other locale, including say Argentina, Guatemala, Germany, Israel, etc., and proof of insurance.

The conduct their business and that's that. There is NO probable cause to suspect the individual is NOT here legally. And the officer can't go farther.

An "illegal" though, according to my neighbors, will typically NOT have a DL, no proof of insurance, will avoid eye contact, won't want to speak to the officer, etc...etc...and can't answer any questions (or won't) about their address, etc. MAYBE (and I'm not a lawyer so I can't say definitively) this is probable cause, I don't know...

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
The only time you are required to show the police your driver's license is if you are driving a car. If you are not being arrested, you are not required to show identification to the police of any kind, this is protected by the fourth amendment. Under this law, the police can ask anyone for proof of citizenship at any time they have cause to believe someone is an illegal alien. Its clearly unconstitutional and is going to get struck down in court. I get that AZ is trying to cut down on illegal immigration, but this a'int the right way to do it.
 
This link says nothing of the sort.

If you can show me the CT statute that states vehicle passengers must have ID I would appreciate it.
Oh?

QUESTION:

What are the laws regarding the questioning of passengers during a routine traffic stop?

_____

ANSWER:



Asking Passenger for Identification
What Happens when He or She Refuses?

On April 4, 2008 the United States Court of Appeals considered a civil rights claim filed against an officer who demanded identification from a passenger on a motor vehicle stop, and arrested the passenger when he refused to comply with the officer’s demand.i The case involved a motor vehicle stop by an Arkansas State Police Officer, Jeff Harris.



The court outlined the facts as follows: “It is undisputed that Harris stopped the car being driven by Stufflebeam's grandson because it did not display a license plate. After the grandson produced his driver's license, proof of insurance, a bill of sale, and a title document, Harris asked the passenger, Stufflebeam, for his identification. Stufflebeam angrily replied, ‘You can't do that!’ Harris replied that the law permitted him to ask for identification. Stufflebeam again refused, stating, ‘You either arrest me and take me to jail or I don't have to show you anything!’ Harris returned to his vehicle and requested back-up. When two additional officers arrived, Harris asked Stufflebeam to exit the vehicle. He complied but still refused to identify himself ‘with anger in his voice and expression,’ according to Harris's report. Harris then arrested and handcuffed Stufflebeam and removed everything from his pockets, including a wallet containing a driver's license that identified Stufflebeam. Harris placed Stufflebeam in the back of the squad car, searched the vehicle ‘incident to the arrest’ over the grandson's protest, and then released the grandson and drove Stufflebeam to a local jail where he was booked for obstructing governmental operations.” The prosecution against Stufflebeam was dropped which led to the lawsuit presented here.

The case raises two distinct issues: First, can an officer ask a passenger for identification during a traffic stop, and second, what can the officer do if the passenger refuses to cooperate with the officer’s request.

On the question of whether an officer can ask a passenger for identification, the court considered its prior decision in United States v. Slater.ii Slater was the passenger in a vehicle that was stopped at a sobriety checkpoint. “At the checkpoint, Officer Perry asked the driver, Nicholas Jones, if he had been drinking. Jones replied that he had a couple drinks earlier in the evening. Perry then asked Jones and his two passengers, Slater and Jones's young son, to get out of the car. Perry took Jones to the field sobriety test location, while a civilian volunteer or another officer drove the vehicle to a nearby parking lot. After Jones passed the sobriety tests, Perry asked Jones if his adult passenger was a licensed driver. Jones said he did not know, so the two returned to where the passengers were waiting, and Perry asked Slater if he was willing to drive. Slater replied that he had no driver's license. Perry asked Slater for identification, and he produced a Missouri non-driver identification card. Perry's computer check of Slater revealed the outstanding warrant. [During a search incident to arrest, Slater was found to be in possession of a loaded firearm, leading to a federal charge.] After Slater was arrested and searched, Perry issued Jones three citations for an improperly registered motor vehicle, no insurance, and failure to have his driver's license with him. Jones then left the checkpoint in the car with his son.”

In holding that the mere asking for identification did not violate the 4th Amendment, the court cited to a portion of the United States Supreme Court case, Muehler v. Mena.iii Mrs. Mena was detained when officers executed a search warrant at her home looking for a gang-banger who had been involved in a drive-by shooting. The officers were looking for evidence relating to gang activity. Mrs. Mena, who had nothing to do with gangs, had previously rented a room to the gang-banger. During the execution of the search warrant she was handcuffed and, at some point, questioned about her immigration status.

In rejecting Mrs. Mena’s claim that the questioning violated her 4th Amendment rights, the United States Supreme Court asserted: “We have held repeatedly that mere police questioning does not constitute a seizure.iv Even when officers have no basis for suspecting a particular individual, they may generally ask questions of that individual; ask to examine the individual's identification; and request consent to search his or her luggage.”v

Applying this principle in reviewing Mr. Shufflebeam’s claim, the United States Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit held that asking Mr. Shufflebeam for identification did not violate his 4th Amendment rights. This did not however end the case since it did not answer what the officer could do if the passenger refused to identify him or herself.

In determining whether the officer had any authority once the passenger, Mr. Shufflebeam failed to identify himself, the court turned to the United States Supreme Court decision in Hiibel v. Nevada.vi

In Hiibel v. Nevada the United States Supreme Court considered the constitutionality of an arrest and conviction based on the failure of the defendant to identify himself to police during a valid “Terry-Stop.”

In Hiibel, the Humboldt County Sheriff’s Department received a call of an assault in the middle of the afternoon. The caller reported seeing a man assault a woman in a red and silver GMC pickup on Grass Valley Road. A deputy, Lee Dove,vii was dispatched to the scene and found the truck as described parked on the side of the road. The deputy noted skid marks in the gravel behind the truck indicating a sudden stop. He further observed a female in the truck and a man standing on the side of the truck, all consistent with the caller’s report. The man appeared to be intoxicated and repeatedly refused the officer’s request for identification. The Court noted that the deputy asked Hiibel for identification eleven times. The man then began, in full view of the cruiser’s mobile video-recorder to taunt the officer to arrest him. The officer arrested Hiibel for obstructing an officer’s official duties. The basis of the “official duty” was a requirement under Nevada’s Investigative Stop statute that requires a person to identify themselves to an officer during such a stop. The Court cited statutes from twenty-states with a similar requirement during investigative stops.viii

In upholding the arrest and conviction of Hiibel, the 5-4 majority of the Court first recognized that the stop of Hiibel met the constitutional standard for investigatory stops, specifically, reasonable suspicion. The Court extended this reasoning in stating that…

“…obtaining a suspect’s name in the course of a Terry stop serves important government interests. Knowledge of identity may inform an officer that a suspect is wanted for another offense, or has a record of violence or mental disorder. On the other hand, knowing (a person’s) identity may help clear a suspect and allow the police to concentrate their efforts elsewhere. Identity may prove particularly important in cases such as this, where the police are investigating what appears to be a domestic assault. Officers called to investigate domestic disputes need to know whom they are dealing with in order to assess the situation, the threat to their own safety, and possible danger to the potential victim.”

The Court noted that it is well established that an officer can ask a subject to identify himself/herself during a Terry stop and the only question was whether an individual could be prosecuted for failing to do so.

The Court concluded that a conviction for failing to identify oneself during a valid Terry stop in accord with a state statute is valid. The Court did distinguish the Nevada statute from other states in that it had been interpreted as only requiring a subject to identify himself/herself and does not require the production of reliable and credible identification.

In applying the principles from Hiibel to the circumstances involving Shufflebeam’s arrest, the court noted that Officer Harris had no reasonable suspicion to believe that Shufflebeam was involved in criminal activity; he was merely a passenger in a vehicle stopped for motor vehicle violations. As such, Hiibel would not justify his arrest since the rule from Hiibel requires that the person(s) being asked to identify themselves must be the subject of a valid Terry stop, i.e. they must be suspected of criminal activity and that suspicion must be supported by reasonable suspicion. Even though Arkansas is one of the states that has a statute requiring person(s) to identify themselves during a validTerry stop, the court concluded that Shufflebeam was not the subject of such a stop. Thus, the court concluded that Mr. Shufflebeam’s lawsuit against the officer should go on to a jury.

Key Points from Hiibel:

Decision would only have application in states where there is a statutory requirement that person(s) identify themselves during an investigative detention.ix
The request for identity must be supported by a valid Terry stop.
If the preceding elements are met, the officer may request that the person(s) identify themselves but the case does not allow for an arrest based on a failure to produce “credible and reliable” identification.
Key Points from Shufflebeam:

The Unites States Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, citing United States Supreme Court precedent concludes that it is not unconstitutional to merely ask for identification. Note, some states would consider this an expansion of the scope of the stop under state constitutions.
The United States Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, citing Hiibel concluded that arresting a passenger for refusing to identify himself/herself where the officer has no independent reasonable suspicion to believe that the passenger is involved in criminal activity does violate the Constitution.
CITATIONS:
 
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