Army bases after commisioning

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by SF1775, Apr 17, 2015.

  1. SF1775

    SF1775 Member

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    Does anyone have a list of posts where West Point grads went after commissioning? Just curious about where the popular bases are, and the possible bases for each branch.
     
  2. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Unlikely.
     
  3. civic29

    civic29 Member

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    You should probably wait a few years before worrying about where you will be posted. If you really are curious though just look up what branch you are interested in and look at all the post with that branch, what units there are in the branch, and just research. If you don't learn it now you will just end up learning it later and probably meet people from various post and such.


    2019 WestPoint class appointee

    Recipient of 4 year army rotc scholarship.
     
  4. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

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  5. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    This information becomes available to cadets through informal channels from past years and formally for the Branch/Post selection process.

    Branch reps also work with cadets to answer questions like these.

    Until then the posts (garrisons) and assigned units are freely available on the public facing Army web pages. It's a standard format. You won't find any secrets there, and I'm sure the Chinese and Russians have these sites mirrored.

    Likewise, goarmy.com has a handy map with popups for each location: http://www.goarmy.com/about/post-locations.html

    If you have an idea of where you want to go, you can see who is there. Or a particular unit you can see where they are garrisoned.

    Is there a specific question you were trying to find out?
     
  6. SF1775

    SF1775 Member

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    Literally just curious. I just wanted to know if there are any standout, popular posts that cadets heavily pick.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  7. Craig

    Craig Member

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    There are, but they are AF Bases :)
     
  8. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    Things change every year, but there are some general trends. As you might expect, this is a very popular topic of discussion with cadets. And there have been some pretty detailed write ups from USMA, etc.

    Really two dimensions for each branch drive demand:
    - Places the in demand units are at (Think units you'd know)
    - Desirable locations (Exotic locales, Preferred US locations)

    And somewhat influenced by size of the above. So locations with full brigades will have a much larger number of slots, and so will be available to many more cadets. (Further down the OML)

    Branched Armor to a pretty much Infantry post? May only be 1-2 slots.

    AD and other branches will often see a few slots in many posts and be fairly distributed.

    So everyone has different preferences depending on branch, etc.

    But in general, European posts (Germany, Italy, etc) tend to go first as they are small and in demand. And have been shrinking, though that may change.

    Hawaii is pretty popular. Alaska, Colorado. Washington State.

    Bragg and to a certain extent, Campbell, due to the units. Funny, not that many want to go right back to NY though.

    Then some pick close to home, or their GF/BF's post. Some branch's don't post at all until later.

    At the other end of the extreme- Korea, TX, OK, etc are typically not in demand, both due to larger number of slots and less desirable for many. But some seek out Korea due to optempo and occasionally preferential treatment in 2nd assignment. For some branches TX is desirable, others not.

    Since you express preference by Battalion, so look at where units are in their deployment cycle and try to time things. (But harder to do of late)

    Since you'll rotate to a different type unit, sometimes that influences pick. For IN, Light before Mech/Stryker. Or vice versa, depending career goals. Similar choices for AR, etc.

    So there is no easy answer.
     
    MemberLG and civic29 like this.
  9. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Post choices equate to where 2LT positions are by branch

    So if you pick Armor, Fort Bragg and Hawaii are very unlikely. Fort Bragg had an armor battalion long long time ago.
     
    hawk likes this.
  10. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Ok, let me inject some current info...

    All BCTs now feature a RSTA squadron, which is staffed by both Armor and infantry officers. That means that while they are fewer in number than a traditional "heavy post," there are armor officer slots every year at all "light" posts. That means you can be an armor officer at any operational post. Including Hawaii, Campbell, Bragg, and Drum.

    Secondly, all mechanized infantry battalions and all armor battalions have been converted to Combined Arms Battalions (CABs). A CAB has two companies of Mech infantry and two companies of tanks. So as an armor officer, you may be assigned to either an "Infantry" battalion, like 1-16 Infantry, or an Armor battalion like 1-63 Armor. But internally, these two units would look the same.

    So the idea of certain slots being almost non-existent at certain posts is not true. Beyond that, the biggest determining factor will be where each unit is in the readiness cycle. That will drive their personnel inflow needs.
     
  11. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    With all respect, exactly how many Armor 2LT's in a Light brigade relative to IN counterparts? This is not conjecture, this is a unit structure issue. The number of 2LT's in RTSA is very small relative to IN, for the BCT. And not all RTSA are AR officers.

    And the nature of RTSA comes into play. Yes, they have Infantry officers. But pretty much never assign 2LT's, for some very specific reasons.

    You would know this far better than I, the ratio of IN to AR 2LT slots varies dramatically between IBCT, SBCT, and ABCT. Same for other branches, though usually they are smaller so there is less competition.

    For small, high demand posts, other factors weigh in. Want to got to Italy as an AR 2LT? Very, very difficult as the RTSA for the main tenant is in Germany. And even that was very small, only one slot this year. (We are friends with one '15 AR cadet headed for DL, it was hard fought)

    We'll have to disagree on this. Just the ratio of non-infantry 2LT to IN in light units defines that, you would know this better than I. And the USMA slots for the last 3 years bear that out.

    Want to go to Germany? Very skewed ratios between branches. Italy even more so. But these are posts with typically single large tenant units with only ancillary presences from other units/functions. (Yes, there are occasionally other tenants, but with very small presences, and very few 2Lt slots)

    Stryker BCT's change that ratio some. But as I pointed out, Heavy BCT's do have a reasonable number of IN slots, so the converse it not true.

    Numerically for recent USMA grads, it's fairly hard for AR to get slots in certain light IN units. And easier for strykers, but only because most AR want to be in an ABCT in a tank. Not because they have equal number of slots as IN.

    As I also mentioned, for large posts, the dynamic is that all bets are off as they have multiple tenants. And with 3-4 BCT's, almost by definition many more slots, so are in less demand. But even then, there are fairly well defined trends for places like Bragg and Campbell. Carson, less so. And would be easy for an AR 2LT to get a slot in Drum, because it's typically not as desirable due to perception of cadets. (No slight to the 10th Mtn implied, most cadets want out of NY)

    Makes me wonder how many AR officers in an Helo unit relative to Aviation? (I don't know the answer to that)

    The OP asked about what posts were in demand. At least for the last 2-3 years there are clear trends in USMA posting preferences, and it's relative to the number of slots per branch for that post balanced against perceived desirability.

    All this may change, we may see AR return to Germany outside of the current Stryker and RTSA slots. Likewise, some branches don't post out of USMA (EOD, Cyber, Aviation), nor do med school, scholarship winners, or MACP types. So that changes the dynamic some. Maybe it's easy to get Europe as Aviation, don't know.

    Don't disagree here, though that did not seem to be a big impact in the last two years posting patterns. BCT's seem to be rotating battalions in most cases. But this may change as well.
     
  12. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    That is false.

    That is true in terms of variability between the three. The most balanced mix will actually be in an ABCT, where it runs around 50/50 for 2LTs. SBCT will skew more toward infantry and the IBCT will skew about 4:1 infantry to Armor

    The assertion was that posts that are traditionally "light" have almost no slots for Armor 2LTs. That is, as you can see, not the case. It's much easier to get to Bragg as an Armor officer than it was before the DIVCAV was abandoned and the RSTAs were integrated into SBCT. A bigger impact will, as always, be the manning cycle and not purely MTOE allowances.

    I'm just telling you how the units look in 2015.


    I was under the impression that I pointed that out. Heavy BCTs will have nearly an equal number of PL slots for 2LTs from either branch.

    Not sure what you mean by that, but cadets now post to a BCT.

    And with 3-4 BCT's, almost by definition many more slots, so are in less demand. But even then, there are fairly well defined trends for places like Bragg and Campbell. Carson, less so. And would be easy for an AR 2LT to get a slot in Drum, because it's typically not as desirable due to perception of cadets. (No slight to the 10th Mtn implied, most cadets want out of NY)

    There are no MTOE slots for company grade AR officers in a combat aviation brigade.

    Highly unlikely.
     
  13. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    Not debating, just discussing. We can return to the regular CFA/packing list/deterioration of Beast dialog at any time. But this topic is one that surfaces quite a bit in the context of admissions & recruiting. Kids want to know where they might be able to go, and how hard it is to get.

    Yes, probably premature. But it can shape a decision between services for sure. Just think of the differences for a kid in where they would end up in Aviation across the branches.

    So it is relevant to this forum.

    Regarding IN 2LT slots in RTSA units:
    We'll have to disagree on this, as I've directly heard from a serving officer in a unit with RTSA that the odds are virtually zero as the IN PL is normally a 1LT with very specific training. And typically even a prior enlisted given a choice. The very rare exception would be if there were not enough 2LT openings for mainstream platoons, and they stuck someone on staff until a position opened. The way he explained it was "you have a highly trained 2LT who needs to learn how to manage a platoon in the real world. Why put them in a position that does not play to their strength, etc. Might even be a setback career wise if they had typical IN aspirations". This was echo'd by IN advisors. Strong consensus it would be very rare to send a USMA 2Lt to a RTSA unit.

    Maybe there are units that are different, or exceptions. But this was not at all ambiguous or conjecture.


    Agreed entirely on average. But not entirely true at every post. I gave specific examples where it was not true. OP asked about popular posts, which I was responding to.

    I said certain high demand light units. And also that other, larger or less in demand units it was easier to do.

    The odds ran 1:25 to 1:50 for some posts in some branches for certain posts over the last 2-3 years.

    With 3-4 BCT's Bragg and Campbell were not difficult at all to get for most branches over the last 2-3 years. Harder for AR, but nowhere near as hard as OCONUS. Same for 10th Mtn. This is borne out in where the posts start and stop in the OML. Clear trends. Meanwhile, OCONUS AR slots excluding Korea went first and there have been very few of them.

    This is not ARFORGEN stuff... it's literally unit structure X unit locations X perceived desirability

    As did I. So here's the point: Where are the ABCT's posted? Pretty much large posts in the US. With many more slots, in ( as perceived by cadets) less desirable locations. Again, born out in where these posts went relative to OML.

    Error on my part... mistyped. "It was that B-thing, what's it called".

    Point being, the apparent trend is battalion sized deployments of late. Which makes it harder to predict deployment cycles.

    I'm sure you have better information, and I'm discussing rather than debating. I'm told this is a big sea change relative to 5-10 years ago. So the impact on deployment cycle on slots available to USMA is far smaller. And almost impossible to game. Which also was not the case even just a few years back, it used to be a big part of post selection to understand deployment cycle status. Even trading in BOLC.

    All of this stuff is not worth debating. The short answer to the OP is that certain posts are in demand and much harder to get depending on branch. Not impossible, but some typically only have 1-2% of slots for that branch. And others, less in demand might have 25-30% of the slots. This is only for the branches that post out of USMA. And there is more variability in support roles, but they are a much smaller % of the total slots for any given post.

    I will ask if you are aware that detailed branch & post stats are widely available and shared at pretty much every RC briefing? Branch stats including OML start/stop are pretty much standard. And post stats less common, but normally used to address questions.

    "I want to command a tank platoon and plan to branch AR, but my GF lives in Dothan. Can I post to Ft Rucker?" Though usually it's AG/Medical related and OCONUS. :)

    They don't get into detailed ratios, but do explain why the outcome is the way it is. But do share very detailed information, including OML start/stop, ADSO impact, etc. So the outcomes and trends are fairly well known and accessible. Facts.

    This is not to imply deep insight into the Army, but it is very specific and factual information relevant to the OP's question. Similar surfaces at various events at USMA. And in the various branch societies.

    Likewise, cadets this year and last for at least a couple branches had unofficial tools in place that pretty much any cadet who chose to could predict within 5-10% where they stood based on OML and # of slots. And that information was widely discussed.

    About more Armor in Europe:
    I'll defer to you and serving officers on this. It is a popular subject of discussion and conjecture based on some recent announcements & actions. But it's just officers reading tea leaves for the most part. Who knows. I find it interesting, so tend to pay attention. I'm not in a position to know or not. But the majority of my worklife centers around recognizing patterns. And I see some interesting patterns that align with the conjecture of others.

    Then again, whoever would have guessed 2CR would have been on flag waving road tours intentionally within 100-300m of certain countries. And joint training by multiple US units with and in Eastern Euro countries increased 5-10x over what they used to be. And tanks shipped back to Germany, albeit "for training purposes".

    Again, I appreciate the discussion and respect your insight. OP, hopefully your question was answered.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
  14. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    If true, that would be a BCT internal policy and should not be extrapolated to apply across the Army.

    I was responding to MemberLG and others, and my comments were limited to Armor vs. Infantry. The other branches have their peculiarities. One should not hope to be an Apache pilot in Japan, but that is outside the scope of my comments.

    By the same token, few would've guessed even 10 years ago that 2SCR would be a Stryker unit and that they'd be the only unit left in Germany with any kind of *** behind them.
     
  15. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    I apologize for entering into the SA sanctum with a question about an AROTC cadet's future.

    DS will do Signal BOLC over Fall and Winter. Has requested Qatar, Kuwait, Korea, Japan, Honduras, Belgium and a couple of US posts, including Hawaii... pretty much in that order. I want to make clear, I really don't care where he ends up. I am pulling for him to end up where he wants to be and, like him, I understand it really doesn't matter what he wants.

    Does order of merit or educational background or performance at BOLC come in to play at all?

    Just curious.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  16. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    It depends on the branch, but yes. For FA (who receive their posts at BOLC other than the USMA and ROTC ADSO folks), our performance at BOLC (atleast the first half of it) is the OML that's used for determining posts. However, there is some trading that can go on for different posts. I can't speak to how Signal exactly does it though.

    Edit to add: meant to include that, atleast here, if you fail and recycle BOLC, you will lose your post, even if you ADSO'd in ROTC or are from USMA. A few USMA recycles are in my class and it happened to them, though it's better than being separated from the Army.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
  17. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Failing BOLC...good lord.
     
  18. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    It sounds ridiculous, I know, but about 15-20% or so of each FA BOLC class finds a way to do it.
     
  19. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Just ask for Ft Polk. It's every Soldier's dream assignment. Being assigned there (some have said) is like a dream come true. Ft Riley would be another "diamond in the rough". Stick with those two-&you can't go wrong. ;)
     
  20. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Funny thing, there's a USMA grad who recycled into my BOLC class who got Ft Polk when he was in school, but since he recycled he unfortunately lost his coveted Polk slot. He was extremely upset
     

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