Army Football in the news

[Jcleppe]

But these cadets are the same cadets we expect to be 2LT leading soldiers in a year or two. Soon or later we have to treat these cadets as adults.

I agree.

I would only add that, Sooner or later these cadets will have to act like adults as well.

 

[MemberLG]

I agree.

I would only add that, Sooner or later these cadets will have to act like adults as well.

They acted like adults - drinking, partying, breaking rules, and etc.

Sometimes I argued that stduents are regular colleges are more disciplined as if they miss class or keep their rooms unkept, nothing happens them whereas for cadets they get punished. Do we really think cadets will not miss classes or keep their rooms clearn if they don't get punished?

I should have been more clear on that cadets are and should be allowed to go on trips without some officers watching over them.

 

[parentalunit2]

Well there was the LAX at USMA where they killed the LaCrosse program...

It was rugby, not lacrosse. And the program did not go away at all. When I first read about all that I literally laughed out loud when I got to the part about cancelling next year’s season. I absolutely knew that the rugby team, which garners lots of private support from grads as a club team, would not miss a season. And they didn’t. They did not compete in the fall, but spring is the real season for rugby, the one that matters and leads to the national championship, and they did in fact compete in their entire planned spring season. I also find it funny that both men’s and women’s rugby are now suddenly a part of the Army Athletic Association, whereas they were always club sports before. Typically that move takes quite a few years to accomplish. “We’d better keep a closer eye on those scallywags!”

Army rugby did not go away with their scandal and Army football will not go away with this one. Just like the rest of college athletics, a few folks will get slapped on the wrist, everyone will move on with their lives, and fans will still pour millions of dollars into it because they like it, warts and all.

 

[scoutpilot]

It was rugby, not lacrosse. And the program did not go away at all. When I first read about all that I literally laughed out loud when I got to the part about cancelling next year’s season. I absolutely knew that the rugby team, which garners lots of private support from grads as a club team, would not miss a season. And they didn’t. They did not compete in the fall, but spring is the real season for rugby, the one that matters and leads to the national championship, and they did in fact compete in their entire planned spring season. I also find it funny that both men’s and women’s rugby are now suddenly a part of the Army Athletic Association, whereas they were always club sports before. Typically that move takes quite a few years to accomplish. “We’d better keep a closer eye on those scallywags!”

Army rugby did not go away with their scandal and Army football will not go away with this one. Just like the rest of college athletics, a few folks will get slapped on the wrist, everyone will move on with their lives, and fans will still pour millions of dollars into it because they like it, warts and all.

Don't bother bringing facts and reality into this.

 

[MombaBomba]

As shocking to you as this might be, there are female cadets (as well as male) who like to party. Heck, they were offered a free trip off post on a weekend and that alone would have been incentive enough for many cadets to get on that bus! Sitting here at our computers, we don’t know exactly how this trip was presented to the young ladies. Certain cadets are hand picked to represent the academy quite often. I’m sure the female cadets in question are used to being used in a PR capacity. They probably even enjoy the opportunities presented to them.

"Q: does this necessarily mean between two female cheerleaders?"

You beat me to it! This was my very first thought.

Not so much shocking as disappointing. I am well aware that teenagers like to party. No shock there. I am well aware that teenagers do stupid things. No shock there. I am also well aware the more teenagers you get together the more stupid they become (as in losing any notion of "maybe that isn't a good idea"), and the more creative they can get (inventive). And I am well aware that many teenagers are openly bi-sexual, heterosexual or gay. No shock there either.

I am also well aware that when a group of teenagers get together with or without alcohol, there will be folks looking to make base and possibly score a home run.

Frankly, whether they were swapping spit or jousting tongues with each other or someone of the opposite sex is irrelevant in my book. It's not the who, its the when, where and why.

However, that being said. They are representatives of a military academy where women had to fight for the right to attend. They lost site of this in their desire to engage in amorous pursuits on a bus load of recruits and fellow cadets. Perhaps after Clinton-Lewinsky redefined the limits of sex, this type of behavior is just another day at the academy. They have ensured a reputation that will follow them not only through the rest of their time at the academy, but also through their career. Does anyone think that most of the USMA cadet population are unaware of exactly who was involved with this? News travels fast. Basically, they screwed themselves with this.

The fact that they were willing to "have a good time" to help out the team is a reflection of how seriously they take their image as a female cadet. That's why "the slap upside the head."

I really do wonder if they realize how much they hurt themselves with this? It's a shame. A real shame.

 

[MemberLG]

The fact that they were willing to "have a good time" to help out the team is a reflection of how seriously they take their image as a female cadet.

I strongly oppose your assumption.

I think we will never know if alleged "having[ing] a good time" was just having a good time or they did something they knew it was wrong but did it anyway "to help out the team."

 

[sean007]

An intellectual exercise

I strongly oppose your assumption.

I think we will never know if alleged "having[ing] a good time" was just having a good time or they did something they knew it was wrong but did it anyway "to help out the team."

I agree.

As an intellectual exercise:

My DS gets a call from a gaggle of female cheerleaders to go out on the town to party with a bunch of perspective new recruits. If I find out he passed up on his duty to help the corp - I would probably disinherit him on the spot.

I am totally willing to treat, and judge, both female and male cadets equally.

 

[scoutpilot]

I strongly oppose your assumption.

I think we will never know if alleged "having[ing] a good time" was just having a good time or they did something they knew it was wrong but did it anyway "to help out the team."

Ah, yes. The moral police. Always good to hear how we are all supposed to behave.

Couldn't agree more, MemberLG.

 

[MombaBomba]

I strongly oppose your assumption.

I think we will never know if alleged "having[ing] a good time" was just having a good time or they did something they knew it was wrong but did it anyway "to help out the team."

You are correct. Unless they release all the details, we will never know if they just made out with an audience of male cadets and recruits on a bus for their own "grins and giggles" or because it was expected.

Regardless if this was "contracted" or "just happened." In the context of the situation, it was wrong. If this was not a recruiting trip and they were not representing the academy, then it would not be a matter of disrespect.

I don't know if this has made the news in your neck of the woods, but there has been an increase in the incidents of kids having sex on the school bus (back and forth to school, field trips, athletic events etc.). What is disturbing, isn't that kids are having sex. It's that they are doing it so openly in a public place with an audience. Perhaps they never heard the expression "get a room."

I wonder if publicly engaging in sex has become so much more acceptable that they really don't think this type of behavior is "a big deal" or "out of the norm".

 

[billyb]

...because it was expected.

Regardless if this was "contracted"..."

These are just ridiculous comments.

 

[Dixieland]

Not so much shocking as disappointing. I am well aware that teenagers like to party. No shock there. I am well aware that teenagers do stupid things. No shock there. I am also well aware the more teenagers you get together the more stupid they become (as in losing any notion of "maybe that isn't a good idea"), and the more creative they can get (inventive). And I am well aware that many teenagers are openly bi-sexual, heterosexual or gay. No shock there either.

I am also well aware that when a group of teenagers get together with or without alcohol, there will be folks looking to make base and possibly score a home run.

Frankly, whether they were swapping spit or jousting tongues with each other or someone of the opposite sex is irrelevant in my book. It's not the who, its the when, where and why.

However, that being said. They are representatives of a military academy where women had to fight for the right to attend. They lost site of this in their desire to engage in amorous pursuits on a bus load of recruits and fellow cadets. Perhaps after Clinton-Lewinsky redefined the limits of sex, this type of behavior is just another day at the academy. They have ensured a reputation that will follow them not only through the rest of their time at the academy, but also through their career. Does anyone think that most of the USMA cadet population are unaware of exactly who was involved with this? News travels fast. Basically, they screwed themselves with this.

The fact that they were willing to "have a good time" to help out the team is a reflection of how seriously they take their image as a female cadet. That's why "the slap upside the head."

I really do wonder if they realize how much they hurt themselves with this? It's a shame. A real shame.

I don't even know what to do with this.

 

[MombaBomba]

I agree.

As an intellectual exercise:

My DS gets a call from a gaggle of female cheerleaders to go out on the town to party with a bunch of perspective new recruits. If I find out he passed up on his duty to help the corp - I would probably disinherit him on the spot.

I am totally willing to treat, and judge, both female and male cadets equally.

And of course if something happened, well he should get the benefit of the doubt too, the poor little lamb. I mean really, how could he even begin to imagine something contextually inappropriate might happen! Him and a gaggle of girls? Perish the thought! He should be safer than a babe in mother's arms.

 

[EDelahanty]

You are correct. Unless they release all the details, we will never know if they just made out with an audience of male cadets and recruits on a bus for their own "grins and giggles" or because it was expected.

Regardless if this was "contracted" or "just happened." In the context of the situation, it was wrong. If this was not a recruiting trip and they were not representing the academy, then it would not be a matter of disrespect.

I don't know if this has made the news in your neck of the woods, but there has been an increase in the incidents of kids having sex on the school bus (back and forth to school, field trips, athletic events etc.). What is disturbing, isn't that kids are having sex. It's that they are doing it so openly in a public place with an audience. Perhaps they never heard the expression "get a room."

I wonder if publicly engaging in sex has become so much more acceptable that they really don't think this type of behavior is "a big deal" or "out of the norm".

I'm surprised the crackerjack investigative team of the New York Post hasn't ferreted out the prurient details of the infamous busride yet. Surely, there a snapshot suitable for the front page on somebody's phone.

 

[scoutpilot]

I don't even know what to do with this.

This is what happens when we leave the door open.

 

[MombaBomba]

I'm surprised the crackerjack investigative team of the New York Post hasn't ferreted out the prurient details of the infamous busride yet. Surely, there a snapshot suitable for the front page on somebody's phone.

I hadn't even thought about cell phone pictures. That would be so awful. I hope that never happens. The kids involved certainly don't deserve that.

 

[EDelahanty]

Probably a good thing that this Saturday's game is at Michie Stadium.

If the Black Knights were visiting the Falcons, it would have tested mightily the self-restraint and good manners of the home fans.

 

[MemberLG]

I don't even know what to do with this.

I think this is case where a moderator could step in.

I am okay with posters using "if" - one word - to make their arguments.

However, the female cadets involved are being portrayed as something they might not be. Things like proven innocent until gulity, more likely than not likely, benefit of doubts, and etc appear to be not being considered. I guess why bother, they are guility.

As I said before I find certain characterization of the females cadets, given no definite proof, very offensive. If I was a parent of these female cadets I will find some of the postings very offensive.

 

[bruno]

I've been away for the last couple of days and am somewhat surprised to come back and see this thread still being beaten- it just keeps going and going. In this case though, unlike the Energizer Bunny who keeps on marching across the continent and is in a different location then when he started, this thread is more like rattling beebees in a can. Lots of noise which sounds like movement, but at the end of the exercise- the beebees are all in the same location as when you started shaking.

I hadn't even thought about cell phone pictures. That would be so awful. I hope that never happens. The kids involved certainly don't deserve that.

If this incident really happened the way it was described in this story, then absolutely there are cell phone pictures. The fact that they haven't popped up anywhere is pretty telling. There is a theory of proving things by the absence of proof that basically goes: if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it would be present and that the absence of proof of its occurrence can be seen as positive proof of its non-occurrence. If the more prurient allegations had occured- in this day and age you would see those photos floating around by now- because this all supposedly occured 6 months ago. The fact that they aren't making the rounds - should tell the more thoughtful of you something.

Folks this thread is getting both tedious and is starting to sound far more like the National Enquirer than a serious forum. Unless you actually have something new and factual - why not let this go to sleep now?

 

[sean007]

Schrödinger's beebees

... this thread is more like rattling beebees in a can. Lots of noise which sounds like movement, but at the end of the exercise- the beebees are all in the same location as when you started shaking.

Beebees in a can - Schrödinger's beebees ?