Army plans to cut 40,000 troops

Wow. in essence you are saying if the CoC has a favorite at your college they will get contracted. There is no national aspect.

Sorry, but that is scary to me. That says to me choose wisely for your det. AND don't tick off your CoC.

AFROTC has a CoC impact (50% of the score) but the make or break is national.

That is really scary if you are a walk on.

Now we also have to ask what the chances are for the cadets. Maybe it is 95% for everyone. No biggie in that case.
 
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NROTC is a national competition with application etc.
 
Every Battalion has a Mission Set for contracts, larger programs will have more then smaller programs. Not all programs fill their mission and some will have more cadets then slots. Selection is based on an OML covering the first two years. Attrition takes place over the first two years so the number looking for a contract is smaller then when they started.

I would imagine if you "Tick off" your CoC in any program your chance for a contract or EA, or Advanced Course, would be in jeopardy.

My son's battalion was smaller, everyone that wanted a contract that met the requirements received the contract, so it's hard to comment on whether there is ever any favoritism when it comes to giving contracts. The system has worked for years this way and seems to be working fine so far.
 
Pima said:
Wow. in essence you are saying if the CoC has a favorite at your college they will get contracted. There is no national aspect.

Sorry, but that is scary to me. That says to me choose wisely for your det. AND don't tick off your CoC.
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It's not a perfect solution, but there are also challenges with the national level.

One immediate problem I see is that if the National board cuts unproportional of MS IIs from one college. We could argue that there in on minimum number of MS III, but to allow a ROTC program to work normally, it needs to have a certain number of need to have a minimum number of MS IIIs.

Another challenge is what does the national board look at? Got the 50% input from the PMS, what does the national board look at - GPA, PT score, ROTC class attendance. Converse to the CoC soley detemining if someone should get contracted or not, should someone get contracted based on GPA, PT scores, and etc.

I think this another "wicked" problem.:)
 
Sorry, I posted that and then kind of went MIA for a few days. Jcleppe (as usual) summed it up well though.
 
My son is in between his Junior and Senior year in high school. He has been interested in joining the service for a long time. My husband was a dentist in the Navy so we have been advocating ROTC. He was doing a fitness routing to be able to do the required for Navy ROTC-Marine Option. He wants to get a degree in business in college. He got chosen to attend the American Legion Boys State this summer. There an Army ROTC student told him he had a better chance of a 3 year Army ROTC than Marine and he should pick a small school so they get to know him and he isn't cut. So now all his plans have changed. The Army ROTC student shared that in the Army there is a better chance of actually using your college degree than in the Marines...Any truth to this advice?
 
curious83 said:
My son is in between his Junior and Senior year in high school. He has been interested in joining the service for a long time. My husband was a dentist in the Navy so we have been advocating ROTC. He was doing a fitness routing to be able to do the required for Navy ROTC-Marine Option. He wants to get a degree in business in college. He got chosen to attend the American Legion Boys State this summer. There an Army ROTC student told him he had a better chance of a 3 year Army ROTC than Marine and he should pick a small school so they get to know him and he isn't cut. So now all his plans have changed. The Army ROTC student shared that in the Army there is a better chance of actually using your college degree than in the Marines...Any truth to this advice?
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I wouldn't really pay much attention to what that cadet said. He should 1) Pick the school that fits him the most, 2) the branch that fits him the most, and 3) the degree that he wants to pursue. And probably in that order.

Overall, the chances of someone really using their degree are low. I've used my degree a total of 0 seconds so far and doesn't look like I will anytime soon. I'd say the chances of using a business degree are even lower.
 
I agree with Bull. I would also add that your son doesn't necessarily have to pick between Army and Marines at this point. He could always apply to both and see who offers him a scholarship.
 
kinnem said:
I agree with Bull. I would also add that your son doesn't necessarily have to pick between Army and Marines at this point. He could always apply to both and see who offers him a scholarship.
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How do you know? He wants to lead a platoon into battle...He could do that from the Marine or Army side couldn't he?
 
Assume you mean an infantry platoon. Yes, you can lead a platoon in either the Marines or Army. "Leading a platoon into battle" is a pretty narrow goal. We have to be at war, your unit has to be deployed into that zone, you have to be assigned as a Platoon Commander, etc...

I understand the desire, but your DS has to understand that the goal should be to become an professional military officer. After that, he can compete for roles but the needs of the service will prevail. He could end up in combat arms, support units or administrative units. He could end up on active duty or reserves.

Sounds like he desires "ground" forces versus following your DH's path in the Navy. I agree with kinnem and would suggest he consider applying for both the Army and Navy (Marine Option) ROTC scholarships. I agree with Bull regarding this quote:

-Bull- said:
He should 1) Pick the school that fits him the most, 2) the branch that fits him the most, and 3) the degree that he wants to pursue. And probably in that order.
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Finally, regarding the use of your degree. I agree with Bull (again) that you probably won't use your degree in the way you think. Any college graduate should be a critical thinker and apply all his education. But in most roles within the military you will not be using the degree exactly as it was taught. Perhaps engineers (nuclear, chemical, civil), pilots (aeronautic) or some other vague roles but it is certainly not the norm.

By way of the example: I was a business major and an infantry platoon commander. I never applied the economics, finance, accounting or marketing lessons I had in college to my daily task. I did apply (I suppose) some of the management education regarding motivation, performance evaluation, counseling, etc.
 
USMCGrunt said:
Finally, regarding the use of your degree. I agree with Bull (again) that you probably won't use your degree in the way you think. Any college graduate should be a critical thinker and apply all his education. But in most roles within the military you will not be using the degree exactly as it was taught. Perhaps engineers (nuclear, chemical, civil), pilots (aeronautic) or some other vague roles but it is certainly not the norm.

By way of the example: I was a business major and an infantry platoon commander. I never applied the economics, finance, accounting or marketing lessons I had in college to my daily task. I did apply (I suppose) some of the management education regarding motivation, performance evaluation, counseling, etc.
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:groupwave:

DS (O2 AF) was a Govt & Politics major with a dual in International Relations. He is a pilot. I highly doubt he will ever use that degree.
~ Bullet was an aero engineer. flew F15es. He now works at a desk at the Pentagon on the 35. His work experience as a rated officer got him the job, not his degree. IOWs, real life experience with 2000 flight hours was what they wanted, not a 20 year old degree he never used.

I would also sit here and say that this thread started off as a 40K troop cut thread. You state he wants to lead a platoon into battle, and hopefully he never will. So let's take it in a different approach. He stays all 20. Somewhere along the line to get promoted you have to do other jobs.
~ When 9/11 occurred Bullet as an AF O4 was sent to Leavenworth for CGSC only 3 months prior. It is a big deal to be sent to a sister service in residence school. Meanwhile when the world stopped turning for that day, our friends were flying missions now over the east coast and the capitol while they placed everyone with him on lockdown. Upon graduating in May 02, he was sent to the Pentagon. He was leading, but from far away.

Just saying part of their career is timing. As USMC stated the goal should be to be an officer in whatever field, hopefully it is their dream field. How does he get there impo?

Following Bulls reply.
~ You can't become an officer unless you graduate. You can't graduate if you hate the school. You can't get your top choice if your cgpa is in the tanks because you hate that major.

ROTC is very unique in a way because it is creating the perfect storm. You need all 3 to match up in order to achieve your goal.
 
USMCGrunt said:
By way of the example: I was a business major and an infantry platoon commander. I never applied the economics, finance, accounting or marketing lessons I had in college to my daily task. I did apply (I suppose) some of the management education regarding motivation, performance evaluation, counseling, etc.
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History/government degree did little to assist in leading a squad (later platoon) of Marines, some younger than I, most older, virtually all bigger (I didn’t even really need to shave). Clear now that I (and probably they) would have at times benefited more had I been experienced daycare provider or babysitter.
 
My niece is marrying an AFA grad who recently graduated at the top of his class for fighters, I doubt very much the biology degree he earned helped him much in his new world. Go to the school you want, study what you want and the rest will ( or not) fall into place.
 
Leadership and critical thinking are key now as always. The cuts they make now will surely test the old guard and young men and women training to be officers; every aspiring ROTC applicant should clearly know why they are serving and let that be their rock through thick and thin.
 
Now I am really confused.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/mili...ble-equipment-boost-soldiers-europe/30187329/
The Army wants to send a second brigade's worth of tanks, Bradleys and other heavy equipment, and dedicate an entire division to exercises, training and assurance missions in Europe amid growing concerns over Russian aggression. These moves come as the Army continues a massive drawdown of forces that has already cut 10,000 soldiers — including two brigade combat teams — from Europe. Another 1,700 soldiers will be cut over the next three years as part of the latest round of reductions, leaving about 30,000 soldiers forward-stationed in Europe.
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I know my Polish pea brain doesn't always get it on the 1st shot, bu this makes no sense to me. They are cutting 10% of their military members overall if I am right, with the possibility of cutting another 8% by by 2020. It seems to me that means the only way to make this work is one of 2 things.
1. Stop the cuts
2. Lots of TDYs/deployments by rotating stateside units in and out.
~ The AF has done this by designating certain wings as an AEF (Air Expeditonary Force) They deploy for 6 months, home for 12. Basically for a 3 year tour you will be gone for a year.

Am I wrong?
 
Pima said:
Now I am really confused.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/mili...ble-equipment-boost-soldiers-europe/30187329/
The Army wants to send a second brigade's worth of tanks, Bradleys and other heavy equipment, and dedicate an entire division to exercises, training and assurance missions in Europe amid growing concerns over Russian aggression. These moves come as the Army continues a massive drawdown of forces that has already cut 10,000 soldiers — including two brigade combat teams — from Europe. Another 1,700 soldiers will be cut over the next three years as part of the latest round of reductions, leaving about 30,000 soldiers forward-stationed in Europe.
Click to expand...

I know my Polish pea brain doesn't always get it on the 1st shot, bu this makes no sense to me. They are cutting 10% of their military members overall if I am right, with the possibility of cutting another 8% by by 2020. It seems to me that means the only way to make this work is one of 2 things.
1. Stop the cuts
2. Lots of TDYs/deployments by rotating stateside units in and out.
~ The AF has done this by designating certain wings as an AEF (Air Expeditonary Force) They deploy for 6 months, home for 12. Basically for a 3 year tour you will be gone for a year.

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

My thought process on this having just had my DS commission is that the way the big army, ROTC (cadet command), and the Guard/Reserves is heading is that you will start seeing more rotational deployments as you mention. I believe the guard units will be deployed more regularly (either stateside or overseas), which is a good thing if they are to be a relied on fighting force in the future. This will keep the AD numbers down.

I also think a lot of it political saber rattling within our own government to see who blinks first.
 
I don't disagree that it is saber rattling. I do think right now our MoCs will not blink first. I see nothing in the news saying that they are willing to address sequestration again.

I just keep looking at how, at least for the AF and what looks like the Army now, that we may be getting very close to a hollow military, especially for some ranks.

22-28 year olds (using the 5 and dive) may now be moving onto the next stage of life...spouse, babies, etc. The idea of staying longer may be not appealing if they are constantly rotating. That is on top of the fact that they are also looking at changing the retirement pay system.

It really reminds me of the 90s. I remember living on base in the UK, and watching Armed Forces Network. Everyday for a while all you saw was a rolling scroll of bases closing due to BRAC and moving trucks showing up non-stop for those officers separating.
~ O4 back than was 10-11 years on a good day. 3 years later it was 9 because they didn't have enough field to company ratio.
 
Pima said:
Now I am really confused.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/mili...ble-equipment-boost-soldiers-europe/30187329/
The Army wants to send a second brigade's worth of tanks, Bradleys and other heavy equipment, and dedicate an entire division to exercises, training and assurance missions in Europe amid growing concerns over Russian aggression. These moves come as the Army continues a massive drawdown of forces that has already cut 10,000 soldiers — including two brigade combat teams — from Europe. Another 1,700 soldiers will be cut over the next three years as part of the latest round of reductions, leaving about 30,000 soldiers forward-stationed in Europe.
Click to expand...

I know my Polish pea brain doesn't always get it on the 1st shot, bu this makes no sense to me. They are cutting 10% of their military members overall if I am right, with the possibility of cutting another 8% by by 2020. It seems to me that means the only way to make this work is one of 2 things.
1. Stop the cuts
2. Lots of TDYs/deployments by rotating stateside units in and out.
~ The AF has done this by designating certain wings as an AEF (Air Expeditonary Force) They deploy for 6 months, home for 12. Basically for a 3 year tour you will be gone for a year.

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

They are already doing the rotating deployments to those AORs. Look at part of 3rdID in Europe, part of 4th ID in Kuwait, and the others scheduled to replace them or head to other places. They have been regionally aligning divisions to these places for this type of thing.

Edit to add: I skimmed the article after I replied and towards the end it echoes somewhat what I said above.
 
Okay, but if they double down on tanks, aka a 2nd brigades worth of tanks, while they cut the force in Europe, doesn't it mean a lot more deployments?

Please understand, I am trying to learn here. Mathematically it says to me cut personnel, increase overseas equates to more deployments for those left serving..
 
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