Army ROTC v.s. Air Force ROTC

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by mjones61, Aug 21, 2014.

  1. mjones61

    mjones61 Prospective

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello everybody I need you help. I am currently a sophomore at a school that offers only Army ROTC. The school that I plan to transfer to the a school that has both Air Force ROTC and Army ROTC. What I want to know is which one would be more beneficial to participate in. If I would do the sophomore (catchup) version of ROTC it would require me to drive 45 minutes to the School I plan on Transfering because the school that I am at now is a cross town school. Or should I stay with Army ROTC and do there programs. The thing that I like about Army ROTC is the summer opportunities, which I plan to take advantage of.

    Also, If I plan on doing Air Force ROTC classes at the other college can I do PT with the Army ROTC program.

    I want to have a flying related career, as my dream job is being an astronaut.

    Tell me what you guys think.
     
  2. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
    Stick with Army ROTC. It won't matter to your AFROTC Detachment in college which ROTC program you participated in during HS. Use the travel time you will save to study more. SAT/ACT scores will matter to AFROTC.
     
  3. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    606
    I think you need to consider very heavily what you actually want to do. Do you want to be in the Army or the Air Force? You have almost no chance of being an astronaut (possible, but incredibly slim) so don't plan on that.
     
  4. BAMA ROTC

    BAMA ROTC Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    49
    Both programs are very different and the outcomes are even more different. You need to research your choice rather than pursue opinions. PM me your email and I can send some information.
     
  5. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    312
    If you study the bios of the handful of Chumps and 8-Balls who comprise respectively the 2009 and 2013 classes of NASA Astronauts, you'll see equal numbers of men and women in their 30s and 40s. They are from Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, as well as non-military backgrounds. One thing they have in common is that they are extraordinarily accomplished and were well along in varied careers when they were selected.

    Choosing AFROTC over AROTC would probably increase your statistical chances of being selected - maybe from one in 300,000 to one in 200,000. So heed the advice above and focus on a branch and career choice which suit your interests and aptitudes.

    Your description of a transfer is confusing. However, if it will add a daily 45 minute commute each way to the ROTC host school, I can say that will reduce your quality of life.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    Heed the other posters advice. You need to do some more research and think about what you want to do for the first 20 + years in the military. Yes, 20 + years.
    Bullet's classmate at FTU for 111s was Col. Mike Good. He was an O3 at that point back in 1989. He was picked up by NASA in 97 or 98. He didn't go up into space in 2010. That was 26 years after he commissioned as an O1.

    That is also going with the assumption that you will meet the following thresh holds.
    1. Selected for SFT as a 250
    2. selected for UPT
    3. Graduate from IFS
    4. Graduate from UPT
    5. Graduate from FTU
    6. Selected for Test Pilot School (you need an engineering degree as a min. to be eligible)
    7. Graduate from TPS
    8. Selected for NASA ---who knows if they even will still be doing manned missions in 2040.

    Falter at any one of those points and the fat lady has sung for that dream. Yet, you will still be in the AF, and for those that go through UPT and winged, you owe 9 more years. If not selected for rated you will go AD for 4 years

    The question becomes would you be willing to serve those years in the AF or would you rather be in the Army?
     
  7. Zero

    Zero Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    42
    Let's not plan on our dreams, because that's effective.
     
  8. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,747
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Go a little further back and you find some Coast Guard NASA folks.


    Enjoy hitching rides with the Russians. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    ~

    I think scout was inputting some realism into his goal. If any stranger on a forum can convince you to go one route over another or give you up your goal than the question begs how committed the poster is to that dream.

    What happens come March if they did transfer into AFROTC and is not picked up for SFT? There is a 50-50 chance that this can occur. Will he regret going AFROTC now?
    ~ I am betting he will since chances are he will have regrets when he is disenrolled.
    ~~ If I recall correctly they are considering joining Det 330. That is a very large unit. It has won the best large det. in the nation in 08 and 12. It is something to think about when they can have 75-100 cadets enter in the fall as either 200s or 250s. The CoCs rec./rank accounts for 40% of that score.

    What happens if he is selected for SFT, but gets RPAs out of the rated board? Will he wonder if he would have been selected for helo's out of AROTC if he just stuck with AROTC?
    ~ Again, I bet he will.

    Worse yet. What happens when he goes to WPAFB for his FC1 flight physical and is DQd? Either way he would not be flying for either branch, but sitting at a desk at least for the AF.
    ~ The difference is he could go Guard or Reserve with the Army and march on with his goal of at least being involved with NASA. AFROTC requires they go ADAF.
    ~~~ Caveat this year group (AFROTC) is the 1st given the option of Guard or Reserve, but nobody knows what 2017 will be like and if that option will be available, thus it is better to believe they will go ADAF.

    Would he be happy being a maintainer, or Mission Support for at least 4 years?
    ~ Most AFROTC grads wait at least 5 months before going AD, and the clock does not start ticking until they go ADAF.

    That is the point. The dream is great as a goal, but you need to be realistic about the chances and just like we tell ROTC scholarship candidates make sure you have Plan B, C, D... in place. This is also true for career ambitions that take 20 years to obtain.

    To be honest I think the OP's comment also made no logical sense of why to stay in AROTC
    So you are willing to devote 4 years 24/7/365 days because AROTC sends you on more 3 week summer trips over 3 years as a cadet than AFROTC?

    I will ask him if this was the smart route of his selecting one branch over another process when he is stationed at the great places the Army can send him like Ft. Polk, Ft. Drum, Camp Red Cloud, or worse yet 12 months in the sandbox, with a 18 month rotation period. IOWs 12 months in, 18 months home, 12 months deployed again.

    This is not an easy life. College you chose what to major in, where to attend. It is 30 weeks a year, and it is not Full Time.

    Military life is they get to have the last say on where you live, what you will do, and even if you get to go home for Xmas or your siblings wedding.
    ~ If you go into the branch because you think that will give you the easiest path to a 20 year goal, it is highly probable that you will not remain motivated for 20 years, heck even 5 years is not probable.

    Thus, the advice given was honest.
     
  10. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,747
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    :eek: And what if he goes BCAD to LRAZPD and gets too man MREs as well as STDs from his NCOs only to DOR before being DQed for PDA at HQ in the USA?


    Come on folks, assume more people (or maybe just me) don't know half of the rediculous acronymes out there.... :biggrin:
     
  11. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    312
    rotflmao, lits!
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    UM LITS I think that comment was aimed at me.

    Most AFROTC cadets and their parents know what SFT is, it is the year of dread regarding this board, and worse for those that are on scholarship. A poster that says they want to go rated and has done any investigation on the rated side, let alone to become an astronaut knows what IFS, UPT, and TPS is.
    ~ I will concede I didn't spell out FTU. Flight Training Unit (aka F22, C130, A10), but I did spell out TPS.

    Maybe it is just me, but if you want to join AFROTC with the intention to become an astronaut and going rated out of AFROTC I would hope you have done enough research to know that SFT = Summer Field Training ( a must to commission). That UPT = Pilot Training, UNT = Nav Training and RPA = Remote Pliots. IFS = Initial Flight Screening.

    So sorry, but if this was directed to me, and if mjones61 has done his investigation, he will know what the acronyms mean. Plus, on the forum we do have an acronym list.

    For lurkers, or candidates applying I get it. This is not English, it is foreign language, but the beauty of ROTC and SAs for those committed to that branch they will learn the acronyms very quickly. This is not the case.

    I was posting directly to them, and they already have at least 1 yr in AROTC where they learned acronyms.

    For your answer, regarding your post.
    How do you get to drop on request (DOR) when you are ADAF? You got an STD from your NCO as an officer? I am thinking that JAG and the UMCJ will be involved. Plus how do you get DQd for PDA at HQ unless you are saying that the NCO was seen kissing them at HQ USA, and they can prove that they were medically DQ'd because the NCO had an STD or maybe did something with their MRE to give them the disease. Yet still how do that get to DOR?

    Can we get back on track now to the OP's concerns?
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    mjones61,

    FYI,

    No you cannot be in AFROTC and do AROTC PT.

    The scoring system is different.
    AROTC cadets talk about how they have a 287, 262, 294, etc on the PFT.

    AFROTC cadets score maxxes at 100. There is no way to get those points on the AF PFT. For AFROTC you read scores like 97.4, 95.3, etc. They are not the same.
    ~ The PFT accounts for 15% (I think) for your SFT selection board score

    There are several additional reasons why this would not be a smart idea even if allowed.
    1. Why should they support you when you have not fully committed to them by doing PT with the Army, meanwhile the other AFROTC cadets are traveling 45 mins. for PT at the det.
    ~~~ Again, the CoC racks and stacks all cadets up for SFT.

    2. You will be assigned to a flight. The Cadet Flight Commander (CFC), The Cadet Vice Wing Commander (CVWC) and the Cadet Wing Commander (CWC) will be at these sessions.
    ~ As stated before, Det. 330 is huge. When the CoC asks for input about you personally, they have no clue since you are doing PT with AROTC at another college, and because you are a 250, you are not a C400 or 300 and not in their LLAB classes.

    You are a name with no face they can connect you too.

    3. AFROTC, like AROTC hands out jobs. It is not uncommon for those jobs to be PT flight instructors.
    ~ It will be out of your hands what job they give you, and if they give you PT instructor, than you can't do it at AROTC.
    ~~~ Yeah, you can if they allow it, but the fact is if you turn it down, you basically will get dinged and SFT is now looking harder to achieve.

    4. As you climb the ranks in AFROTC you will meet weekly to review cadets, and it typically occurs prior to PT.

    5. PT is a bonding time. You get to know each other while enduring the same pain.

    My best wishes and thoughts are with you as you decide between the two.
    Both are great branches. God Speed and God Bless you for defending this great nation.
     
  14. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,747
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Totally directed at you PIMA.

    I've found, especially today, that it's safest to assume no one does any of the work themselves, so you have to spoon-feed it.

    Military public affairs folks use Associated Press (AP) style, where they spell out MOST things and use the accronyme on second reference. It's seems to work.

    I did four years at an academy, five years in the fleet and even after that, there are very service specific accronymes (and some that mean something different for each service).

    I was at an interagency briefing, as the Coast Guard's representative, where "the CG" was referred to. "The CG will do this...the CG will do that...." and all I could think of is "that's news to me." Eventually I found out we were talking "commanding general".

    A C1C in the Air Force is a 1/C in the Coast Guard. Even ratings or ranks can be confusing.

    The original poster is not in AFROTC. He's coming from a school with Army ROTC and considering both. It's safe to assume the accronymes you're using are KEY to the sentence, and it's just easier for all when it's spelled out the first time. Otherwise this forum will singlehandedly fund Google jobs.
     
  15. VMI82

    VMI82 Room 131

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2013
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    6
    I appreciate 'realism.'

    And I also urge people to follow their dreams.

    As a thought exercise I began to wonder what comments a John Glenn or a Neil Armstrong would have elicited had they posted their 'resumes' on this site had it existed decades ago asking what their chances were of going into space?

    We regret the things we did not try more than the ones we tried and may haps 'failed'

    Most of my failures became the loamy soil for my future success.

    Therefore, in my opinion, there really is no way to fail. You either will get your results OR you will get 'the learning' and often the lessons learned are more valuable.

    My advice is: if you want to be part of the Space Program work your *** off and 'leave nothing on the field'

    Who cares if the odds are 1 in a Billion - you might as be the 1 :)
     
  16. Zero

    Zero Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    42
    +1 Oh and btw to further prove the acronyms point most people do not use "SFT" for FT. It's simply FT. Is there another FT other than summer? No.
     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    LITS,

    I think we can agree that every branch is unique.

    If your position is true LITS than he is awaiting a huge wake up call because the 1st day in AFROTC as a 250 all they will be talking about is SFT,

    OBTW, I think you are giving him the benefit of the doubt. He knew already via his own research that he will be a 250.
    ~ That is not common to know that when you enter as a sophomore in college with no AFROTC experience you will be a 250.

    Now can we get back to the matter that should be the most important to the OP.

    Chances of getting an SFT slot as a 250 doing AROTC PT and not AFROTC PT, but in AFROTC program, or chances of becoming an astronaut, and not this issue of acronyms? Especially since I stated before there is a list on this forum regarding acronyms.
    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=11568
     
  18. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    606
    Don't be a fool.

    It's great that he wants to be an astronaut. Shoot for the moon kid. That doesn't make for a compelling reason to choose a service, or to even join the service at all.

    Consider this: kid wants to be President. Many presidents have been lawyers. So kid decides to go to law school. One catch...he hates reading, hates writing, and doesn't like meetings. Would you tell him to go to law school to be President?

    Sure, he may make that .000001% odds of being an astronaut. But there's a 100% chance of being the service after ROTC. He better be sure he wants to.
     
  19. Zero

    Zero Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    42
    While I agree with many of the posters that your chances would increase with AFROTC to become your dream, you need to do whatever it is that you enjoy doing. Ignore the posts about your chances. Control what you can control, PFA, GPA, and extra curricula's like Arnold Air or Honor Guard. Do not overextend yourself or your GPA could suffer. While in AFROTC if there is a AROTC unit as well, sometimes you will have joint PT, at least we did. I do not think PT is something you should consider when choosing Army or Air Force because once your in its really irrelevant and every squadron does their own thing. Decide what it is you want to do in life the Army and Air Force careers are almost completely different, then plan how to get what you want. Nobody is saying it will be easy, but don't let people drown you with how hard it is going to be or your "chances", your chances are just as good as anyone else. Look at it that way. Because frankly if it wasn't at least a little hard it isn't worth spending that much effort doing it.

    PS. If you want to go rated get some flying hours, even if you can only afford a few, makes a huge difference.
     
  20. Zero

    Zero Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    42
    The only fool here is the one telling a kid he knows nothing about that he shouldn't plan on becoming an astronaut, instead of telling him how to get there. Obviously he enjoys ROTC as he clearly stated it and is questioning not just joining ROTC but WHICH branch to join. Consider this: what if the kid is smart and there is no catch, what then? Your logic makes no sense for a random post on a forum.

    The Air force has 13,811 pilots out of 324,820 Active Duty. Does this also mean we should tell him that he shouldn't plan on being a pilot instead of telling him how to get there?

    Nope, just a party pooper, nothing to see here move along.
     

Share This Page