Army ROTC

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by JJaeger, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. JJaeger

    JJaeger Member

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    I'm enrolling in optional Army ROTC courses at Michigan State this fall, starting without a contract. I'd hoped to go Marine but MSU does not have a Navy unit. Does anyone know if there is a precednt for or a possibility of signing a service obligation with my Army ROTC battalion and being cross-commissioned (such as the process done at the service academies every so often, I understand) into the Marine Corps?
     
  2. BarrettaM59

    BarrettaM59 Member

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    Marine PLC

    You should have seen the face on the Marine recruiter when my son said that he would take Army ROTC and apply for the PLC.

    Don't tell the Marines you are doing Army PLC. Keep doing Army ROTC until you have to sign the Marine PLC.
     
  3. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    That's a smart path to take. It will get and keep you in shape, but keep in mind it won't be up to Marine standards.
     
  4. JJaeger

    JJaeger Member

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    So it is possible to do all four years of AROTC and serve the obligation as a Marine if I do the single ten-week course at Quantico junior year?
     
  5. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    No, unless you are able to cross-commission, which in today's military, is pretty much unrealistic.

    You MUST be contracted to participate in the 3rd and 4th years of Army ROTC.
     
  6. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    My, my, that's quite the comment. Two days in a row.
     
  7. bsherman92

    bsherman92 Member

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    Cross-commissioning is a rarity. Don't rely on the very slight chance that you will be approved to cross-commission. Instead, if you want to commission into the Marine Corps, apply for PLC (Platoon Leaders Course). It is basically a variation of OCC (Officer Candidate Course) but for undergraduates, while OCC is for graduates holding a Bachelor's Degree. PLC, unless you're taking the combined course (which is 10 weeks), is two 6-week courses of selection, evaluation, and training in Quantico, Virginia. The minimum PFT score for acceptance is a 225, the lowest possible first-class PFT score for the Marines. As close to 300 is ideal; a 245+ is considered competitive. Also, you must hit the minimum of 8 pull-ups, 80 crunches, and less than a 24:00 minute 3-mile for officership, which are different minimums than for the regular PFT.

    Enrolling in Army ROTC will help indirectly at best. I personally think it's good instruction for maybe, say, drill & ceremony and land nav and perhaps the PT will also help with maintenance, but you're better off saving time and conducting your own PT sessions without waking up every morning at 5 AM. The two PT exams are also very different, each challenging in their own way. You would be better off practicing pull-ups, crunches, and the 3-mile run than attending AROTC PT sessions which focus on raising and maintaining a solid score on the APFT: push-ups, sit-ups, and the 2-mile run, although projected changes for the APFT include a 60-yard shuttle run, 1-minute of rowers, a standing long jump, and changes to the time limit for push-ups and how many miles you have to run. Also, it seems morning AROTC PT sessions are not completely focused on physical training as much as they are focused on attendance, drill and ceremony, typical ROTC stuff... Things like getting in formation, reporting attendance to the cadet platoon sergeant or first sergeant, etc. If PT sessions last only an hour or so, with about 15 or more minutes dedicated to getting in formation and all those formalities, you can bet that by themselves, they won't do you much good in getting close to a 300, let alone for an entirely different PFT. I'd say it's best you save time and the budget for the local university's ROTC department and yourself to focus on academics and conduct your own training sessions which may prove far more effective for yourself, assuming you keep up the regimen. Also keep in mind that many uncontracted cadets are expected to be there not for taking ROTC as an elective, but to eventually be contracted by their 3rd year; it takes up much more of your time than a regular college "elective" class, if you can call it that. Contact a Marine OSO in your local area to let him/her know you're interested in becoming a Marine officer. Best of luck!
     
  8. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    LOL. Hey, I don't create the PFTs. My key point is that to max the PFT they require one to run a mile further and at a .5 minute faster pace than the APFT requires. Maxing the run on the APFT will not mean you're prepared to max the run on the Marine PFT. Simple fact.

    I sure don't mean to denigrate Army physical fitness because I know I couldn't do it or anything near it. Just trying to make sure people know what they're up against when they make these plans. He'll need to do more than the APFT requires as part of his personal training if/when he makes the move to Marines. This requires additional work on the OP's part. Eye's open thing.
     
  9. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    And to pass the 3-mile run, they also let you run 1:23 slower per mile. Simple fact.

    Conversely, Marine PFT training will not prepare you to do well on the APFT. While assessing for this unit, I watched a Marine captain, a stud, barely pass the APFT. Why? Because Pullups and crunches will not prepare you for pushups and situps. He was shocked to discover that in the Army you have to sit ALL the way up. Pushups were something for discipline and correction. Attaching a standard to it suddenly was not fun for him.

    You're right, they're DIFFERENT standards, not inferior or superior.
     
  10. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Yup, I completely agree. Sorry that didn't come across earlier.
     
  11. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    If a "stud" can not transition seamlessly from crunches and pull ups to sit ups and push ups then they are A. Specifically tailoring their work outs for 3 exercises for some odd reason. B. Not a stud.

    3 event heroes are not studs
     
  12. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Thanks for your insight. I'm sure it's based on years of military experience and numerous special mission unit assessments. :rolleyes:

    Oh and by the way, we were being graded on the 17-21 scale. But I'm sure you knew that, from experience and all. And you know how grading works at assessments. Oh, wait...
     
  13. AscoreD

    AscoreD Member

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    Just remember though, just because if you can get a 300 or above on a PT test, doesn't necessarily mean that you are "fit". You may not be able to ruck 75 lbs for miles upon miles like others. Train for life, not for a PT test. Thats my thinking.
     
  14. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Unfortunately, you have to train for both.
     
  15. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Military insight and experience are needed to be make an obvious critique about athletic/fitness prowess? That's news to me.

    I know the 17-21 scale is easier than the 22-26 and 27-31 in the push up/sit up areas for maxing. The point is if a "stud" can't do a push up or sit-up but can do crunches and pull-ups something is wrong. They are training for a test and not fitness or health if that is the case.

    I am just going off of 7-8 years of competitive lifting, personal training and college/select athletic fitness programs. But I know that means nothing here.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  16. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    You're right. How silly of me. When you take a real PT test (not an ROTC PT test) you'll know what I'm talking about, provided AMEDD ever gives you the opportunity.

    And yes, the maxing is easier on the 17-22. The minimum is also higher. There are two ends of the scale.
     
  17. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    You are correct about the minimums, but I would like think the USMC stud could handle more than the 42 90 degree, parallel to the ground push ups and 53 full situps with the base of the neck is above the base of the spine.

    Real PT test? Are they adding one-handed push ups and Janda sit ups now?

    Since I transferred to reserves to finish up my pre-med classes it is not likely I will take a real PT test (That's being serious) until residency. But then again I would just be in AMEDD all over again. Looks like I will l never know how to gauge my physical fitness.
     
  18. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Here's a great example of WHY you don't get what I'm saying.

    First off, the form. Ever notice how people do pushups when they work out? Form takes practice, especially when fatigue sets in. Find a guy at your gym who can do 100 pushups. He might get 60 on a PT test...

    Which brings us to our second point: cutting. When you assess for a SMU or a schoolhouse like RTB, they're going to mess with your head. Every rep that isn't perfect is getting cut. So yeah, 42 doesn't sound hard. Until you realize it takes 65 or 70 to make 42. Now imagine that you NEVER get graded on pushups in your service. How many do you think it'll take to make 42? It doesn't mean you're out of shape or a super athletic stud. It means you're not used to graded pushups.
     
  19. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    First Point:

    So he can't do standard push ups after a little fatigue? Therefore he is not a stud. Great to know this issue is settled then.

    Second Point:

    Fair enough, so they aren't grading to standard (unless we are saying perfect is always standard with no leeway). Clarify that before you go on a rant about how much I don't know about fitness or athletic training or their application to APFTs.

    I am late for the gym so before we go on a pedantic ramble about APFTs, I will just say that you won Scout. Ok?
     
  20. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Oh no, clearly you've got it, kid. Sorry I dared to challenge your exceptional knowledge as a fitness expert.

    I'm sure your attitude of knowing how everything works regardless of firsthand knowledge or experience will serve you well in medicine. Patients will love it. You will make a dynamite junior officer, and your attitude will surely be a hit with NCOs.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2012

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