Army ROTC

[Non Ducor Duco]

Here's a great example of WHY you don't get what I'm saying.

First off, the form. Ever notice how people do pushups when they work out? Form takes practice, especially when fatigue sets in. Find a guy at your gym who can do 100 pushups. He might get 60 on a PT test...

Which brings us to our second point: cutting. When you assess for a SMU or a schoolhouse like RTB, they're going to mess with your head. Every rep that isn't perfect is getting cut. So yeah, 42 doesn't sound hard. Until you realize it takes 65 or 70 to make 42. Now imagine that you NEVER get graded on pushups in your service. How many do you think it'll take to make 42? It doesn't mean you're out of shape or a super athletic stud. It means you're not used to graded pushups.

I'm asking for clarification, so please don't jump down my throat. Since when has the Marine Corps thrown away standards and stopped cutting push ups that aren't correct? I'm not in the Marine Corps obviously, 5 Marines in the fam, but I've been to enough early morning PT and Recruiting sessions with my cousin (who is a 1st LT in the Marine Corps, prior enlisted, lead ROTC PT when he went back for his degree and helped lead PTs at the local recruiting office) to know they definitely have standards...unless of course this is not normal for the MC and all those PTs for ROTC, recruitment training, and on base were just all especially lead by hard a**es. And this guy that did so badly for APFT. Was he from ROTC or was he already in the MC? If so he probably was just skating by all these years. Whatever the case, I doubt you could place a stigma on how well a marine would do on the APFT from an experience with this guy or 1 or 2 others. Sit ups I can understand, but there's no excuse for pushups. There is only one right way to do them in the military correct? Unless the army one asks you to do a back flip after each one, the transition should be seamless for that category. It's a shame on him personally being so lazy, not something that can be applied to every or even most Marines.

 

[Jcleppe]

so please don't jump down my throat.

Good luck with that one.

 

[scoutpilot]

I'm asking for clarification, so please don't jump down my throat. Since when has the Marine Corps thrown away standards and stopped cutting push ups that aren't correct? I'm not in the Marine Corps obviously, 5 Marines in the fam, but I've been to enough early morning PT and Recruiting sessions with my cousin (who is a 1st LT in the Marine Corps, prior enlisted, lead ROTC PT when he went back for his degree and helped lead PTs at the local recruiting office) to know they definitely have standards...unless of course this is not normal for the MC and all those PTs for ROTC, recruitment training, and on base were just all especially lead by hard a**es. And this guy that did so badly for APFT. Was he from ROTC or was he already in the MC? If so he probably was just skating by all these years. Whatever the case, I doubt you could place a stigma on how well a marine would do on the APFT from an experience with this guy or 1 or 2 others. Sit ups I can understand, but there's no excuse for pushups. There is only one right way to do them in the military correct? Unless the army one asks you to do a back flip after each one, the transition should be seamless for that category. It's a shame on him personally being so lazy, not something that can be applied to every or even most Marines.

Simple. The Marine Corps doesn't evaluate pushups as a graded PFT event. They do pull-ups. The Army evaluates pushups. Different philosophies to reach the same endpoint. Do Marines do pushups? Sure. For fitness. And corrective training. But it's not a PFT event.

Y'all can have this thread. Everyone here knows it all anyway. I'll just go back to doing that active duty thing that apparently has taught me nothing more than the average ROTC cadet already knows.

Jcleppe, if you have something to voice, feel free.

 

[Non Ducor Duco]

Jeez dude, what's with this chip on your shoulder? No one's discounting the fact that you have experience. But seriously, how does that make you the final word on military fitness standards? You used one experience with one Marine to generalize, for that experience there are several people with several experiences to counter it. You know, military pft standards are not some big secret that only active duty personnel know about. I've also worked out with "real live" active duty Marines. While their tests might not incorporated pushups and situps. In PT they do everything and count and cut any rep not up to standard. Is it so far fetched that some of us, even though we're younger, have credible experiences to offer up? Why are you getting so angry and sarcastic? It doesn't take years of military experience to partake in or even just sit there and watch active duty military of any branch be physically tested.

 

[scoutpilot]

Jeez dude, what's with this chip on your shoulder? No one's discounting the fact that you have experience. But seriously, how does that make you the final word on military fitness standards? You used one experience with one Marine to generalize, for that experience there are several people with several experiences to counter it. You know, military pft standards are not some big secret that only active duty personnel know about. I've also worked out with "real live" active duty Marines. While their tests might not incorporated pushups and situps. In PT they do everything and count and cut any rep not up to standard. Is it so far fetched that some of us, even though we're younger, have credible experiences to offer up? Why are you getting so angry and sarcastic? It doesn't take years of military experience to partake in or even just sit there and watch active duty military of any branch be physically tested.

You assume that the fact that I offered one anecdote means that's the limit of my joint experience. Probably not the wisest assumption, but I'll play along.

You're absolutely right. I don't know what I was thinking. I am sure you have much to add to the question from your many experiences. Please, go ahead. I am all ears.

And we'll have to disagree that Aglahad's personal fitness anecdotes make him the knowledgable one on how military PT tests are graded.

Why am I sarcastic? Maybe I wasn't hugged enough. Or maybe because we kept score in tee-ball and my time lost. Or maybe because every year on this board we get a fresh crop of eager youngsters. 99% of them come here to learn things about the academies and the military from those of us who've been there. 1% think they know everything and only want to have their views confirmed. The 1% wears on us frequent helpers after awhile. Which camp are you in? Answer that to yourself.

If you pursue ROTC, you're going to hear the mantra of "listen to your NCOs" over and over ad nauseum. It's not because NCOs have a secret book with all the answers. It's because those NCOs have 5, 10, 15, maybe 20 years of experience, and experience means an awful lot in the esoteric world of the military.

So you can take the advice of people who've been there, or not. You won't be one of my lieutenants, so your attitude as a junior officer won't affect me directly. I'd hope you take the advice here and use it to your benefit. Whatever field you find yourself in, relying on the experience of others will be key. In aviation, doubly so. How you crack that nut is up to you.

 

[Non Ducor Duco]

What are you talking about??? OF COURSE I don't know everything, I'm friggin 18! I haven't even begun to really live yet! Where did you get that I think I know everything? But are you trying to tell me that you do? All I said was that even though some of us don't have "vast years of experience", we do have credible things to add from time to time. This is ridiculous. It's like hearing someone talking about living in China for 10 years and all their experiences. But when I add that half my family lives there and add in a sample experience that is contrary to a conclusion the speaker made, he jumps down my throat and discounts anything I have to add because I don't have his "years of experience". Oh you can watch the band march for years, but if you haven't spent years within it then you cant possibly know how they sound or what the formations look like. Standards are something you can witness. Haven't I already said where I got my info about Marines? 5 Marine close family members, been along to several PT sessions. I don't claim to have vast knowledge of any kind, only that I know for a fact that there is a standard for Marine pushups and that, while it might not be on the test, they do ALOT of them and cut incorrect ones just like every branch. For every story of a "joint experience" you have where others did not perform up to Army standards. I have 3 for every joint experience my father and cousins had in the field where other branches of the US military, other branches of foreign militaries, and Marines from several European countries had trouble with US Marines standards. The experience that you recounted makes that particular marine look bad for not being able to do what he should already be expected to do.

Uncalled for assumptions that you've made about me, and applied most of them to alot of other people frankly:
-I'm a know it all.
-I know absolutely nothing about the military and the fact that I've witnessed and been held by Marine standards several times means less than nothing.
-I want to be in aviation.
-I have nothing to add.
-I don't respect experience.

Why are you under the assumption that I do not respect experience of those senior to me? I do. But also as the oldest of 5 kids, I have learned that great ideas come from the bottom too. You can't count them out because they're younger than you. They can learn from you, and you from them. A good leader gives priority to the advise and experience offered from the those senior to them, but also respects that from those junior to them. The priority of one does not mean negating the consideration of the other.

 

[Aglahad]

Oh no, clearly you've got it, kid. Sorry I dared to challenge your exceptional knowledge as a fitness expert.

I'm sure your attitude of knowing how everything works regardless of firsthand knowledge or experience will serve you well in medicine. Patients will love it. You will make a dynamite junior officer, and your attitude will surely be a hit with NCOs.

I laughed at the irony of this post.

I will be a terrible junior officer and physician, anything else relevant to add?

 

[Marist College ROTC]

Whatever the point was of the original post, its been lost. Lets move on.

 

[scoutpilot]

I laughed at the irony of this post.

I will be a terrible junior officer and physician, anything else relevant to add?

What's to add? You've proven that your time as an AROTC nursing cadet has taught you everything about how PT tests are graded and administered. There's nothing more you can learn from anyone here. Please be sure to drop by Ranger Training Brigade and let them know how to grade to standard.

Will you be a physician? I don't know. If so, will you be a good one? Will you be a good junior officer? That's up to you. The inability to listen to the voice of experience makes me wonder. The first time you fail to account for an NCO's experience and counsel, he'll use it against you teach you a lesson. Maybe you're a blunt-force learner.

@Non Ducor: I'm sure you learned a lot on the days you shadowed whomever at PT. However, it's still not "experience" in the question at hand, nor is daddy's story list about no one being as good as Marines. Take each for what they're worth. Move on. Make your own way.

As for this particular Marine being a failure or embarrassment, I'll be sure to tell him you think so. He'll be amused, as he was an early select for Major. I guess he managed to fool the silly ol' USMC.

Good luck in your careers, whatever they end up being.

 

[bruno]

Cross-commissioning is a rarity. Don't rely on the very slight chance that you will be approved to cross-commission. Instead, if you want to commission into the Marine Corps, apply for PLC (Platoon Leaders Course). It is basically a variation of OCC (Officer Candidate Course) but for undergraduates, while OCC is for graduates holding a Bachelor's Degree. PLC, unless you're taking the combined course (which is 10 weeks), is two 6-week courses of selection, evaluation, and training in Quantico, Virginia. The minimum PFT score for acceptance is a 225, the lowest possible first-class PFT score for the Marines. As close to 300 is ideal; a 245+ is considered competitive. Also, you must hit the minimum of 8 pull-ups, 80 crunches, and less than a 24:00 minute 3-mile for officership, which are different minimums than for the regular PFT.

Enrolling in Army ROTC will help indirectly at best. I personally think it's good instruction for maybe, say, drill & ceremony and land nav and perhaps the PT will also help with maintenance, but you're better off saving time and conducting your own PT sessions without waking up every morning at 5 AM. The two PT exams are also very different, each challenging in their own way. You would be better off practicing pull-ups, crunches, and the 3-mile run than attending AROTC PT sessions which focus on raising and maintaining a solid score on the APFT: push-ups, sit-ups, and the 2-mile run, although projected changes for the APFT include a 60-yard shuttle run, 1-minute of rowers, a standing long jump, and changes to the time limit for push-ups and how many miles you have to run. Also, it seems morning AROTC PT sessions are not completely focused on physical training as much as they are focused on attendance, drill and ceremony, typical ROTC stuff... Things like getting in formation, reporting attendance to the cadet platoon sergeant or first sergeant, etc. If PT sessions last only an hour or so, with about 15 or more minutes dedicated to getting in formation and all those formalities, you can bet that by themselves, they won't do you much good in getting close to a 300, let alone for an entirely different PFT. I'd say it's best you save time and the budget for the local university's ROTC department and yourself to focus on academics and conduct your own training sessions which may prove far more effective for yourself, assuming you keep up the regimen. Also keep in mind that many uncontracted cadets are expected to be there not for taking ROTC as an elective, but to eventually be contracted by their 3rd year; it takes up much more of your time than a regular college "elective" class, if you can call it that. Contact a Marine OSO in your local area to let him/her know you're interested in becoming a Marine officer. Best of luck!

Ok folks- I believe that this thread has strayed way beyond any definition of useful on here. I think that the last post that provided information of much relevance to the OP was Bshermans quoted above. (For those of you who needed to run off at a tangent: His premise above is that AROTC PT sessions prepare you somewhat for an Army APFT- not a Marine PFT. Pushups do very little for preparing you for a test that measures pull-ups, and in any case group PT is a limited forum for improving your overall fitness given the limitations of group PT- (AROTC or otherwise) - which anyone who has spent any time in the military undoubtedly knows- you don't get in shape just pting with your unit. To argue otherwise is to argue that the world is square- it has nada to do with the quality of either PFT.)
And if you don't remember what the OP JJaeger wanted to know- he was asking about enrolling in AROTC at his college in order to help him get commissioned into the Marine Corps). If there is anyone on here who actually has something relevant to add to the OP's question- fire away- but Drop the PT angle.