AROTC and GPA

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by TN Mom, May 7, 2011.

  1. TN Mom

    TN Mom Member

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    What happens in the event a student withdraws voluntarily from his/her contract due to inadequate GPA? Is the student eligible to contract later on after grades improve? Are further scholarship opportunities closed at this point? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    If grades fall below the min. the battalion may put the cadet on probation for a period of time, maximum may be one semester.

    If they drop the program I would imagine being contracted later would be a reach.

    As competitive as scholarships are, if the cadets grades fall far enough to drop ROTC their chance, even if they were allowed, would be extremely low if even possible.
     
  3. gojack

    gojack ....

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    For Army;
    If someone withdraws they loose the scholarship.
    They can apply to be reinstated into the ROTC,
    if deficiencies have been corrected - they can be allowed in,
    but the scholarship is lost.

    If a cadet is in academic trouble, withdrawing is the wrong approach,
    talking to the PMS and getting academic support is the correct approach.
    They are there to help and advise, use them.

    My DS was told that the Battalion(Alabama) monitored grades continually, any cadet "in GPA danger" "would" attend study hall/tutoring 2 hrs daily. If GPA was missed (>2.0, >3.0 for ROTC courses) for one semester, they would be placed on academic probation - Still in program, but payments suspended. (with an "all out" cadre tutoring/support effort) After a semester if GPA was still deficient, could be dropped from program, with little to no chance of being reinstated. However some past cadets were in and out of academic probation all 4 yrs, graduated and commissioned, but they were the ones that were making "heroic efforts" at their studies.

    Comment was made that a deficient GPA is sometimes a symptom of bigger problem, wrong major, does not want to be in program/college, personal issues etc., Counseling not studying sometimes the remedy, and some cadets just testing authority and only needed a verbal 'boot in the butt'.

    ROO said he went from a summa cum laude HS senior to academic probation as a freshman in college and was well aware of the challenges of college life, he was not going to write off a promising cadet easily.

    Note it is possible to apply for a one semester leave of absence (LOA)

    AR 145-1 Link sections 3-12, 3-16, 3-43 etc
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  4. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    My sympathies to you TN Mom if your son is in danger of not qualifying to continue his scholarship.

    Hopefully, the cadre at his SMC has been monitoring the situation closely and has been working to make sure he prepares as well as possible for his finals. I'm sure your son is quite nervous (you too as well as I can imagine the financial impact will be primarily yours) and the best that you can do is to encourage him to work with his cadre to both avoid the potential situation and then if that fails to understand alternatives that may be available to him. Many young men fear the appearance of weakness when asking for help. Once he gets past that (and the butt chewing for waiting so long), things get better.
     
  5. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    here is something else to keep in mind. If you withdraw from the program, and subsequently try to reenroll and contract you will have to pay back your benefits before you can reenroll. Had a cadet have to write a check a couple years ago before he could reenter the program. Best way to tackle loosing benefits for a semester is to suck it up, pay for the semester, and get back above water.
     
  6. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    This is in no way a slight to all the amazing ROO's and PMS's out there, My son has had a great Cadre, they are all very supportive and helpful.

    Now that I have that out of the way.....

    Everything sounds great when it first comes from the Recruiting Officer or PMS when you first meet with them. I would have to say that everything my son was told has rang true.

    I do feel you need to be aware of a few things. We were told when we first met with a PMS back in 2008 how they monitor the cadets grades and stay on top of them if they begin to fall behind. This is very true, at my son's battalion the cadets are assigned study hall hours based on the grades they have at midterms. The amount of hours are based on the grade for each class. They have counseling at least once a semester. The cadre can be a help in making sure you are not overloading yourself while still staying on track for graduation.

    A couple things to keep in mind, if you are attending a large school with a very large battalion your counseling time will be short and sweet. The smaller the battalion the more time they have to spend one on one.

    The perception is that if your grades fall they will be tutoring you to help you get back on track. The cadre is usually very busy, the MS3 and MS4's are very busy as well, the MS3's are spending most of their time getting ready for LDAC, the MS4's are busy basically running the place.

    Don't expect that you will be getting personal tutoring from the cadre or upper MS classes. The cadre will meet with you and direct you to the university's tutoring services and writing centers. They will impose mandatory study hall but they will not hold your hand. Think of it as the "Your a Big Boy/Girl now" approach. As a parent it is nice to know that there is someone that will remind them, not always in a cuddly way, what their obligation and priorities are.

    The best advise I can give is to seek out the university's student support system, look at the tutoring options and visit the writing center as soon as you get to school.

    The cadre will do all they can to advise you and point you in the right direction for help, but it will be up to you to follow through.

    Remember this as well, if you have a class that is really giving you problems and you think about dropping it, you have to consider the fact that you are required to graduate in a certain time frame. Taking a class over again just adds to your class load later on.

    Take the time to learn good time management skills your freshman year when ROTC is not a huge burden. Your sophomore year will be busier and your MS3 year will be very busy. You will earn every penny of that stipend just as if you had a part time job at school.

    Almost every school has a class for freshman that teaches time management, study skills and how to handle the college load, I would suggest seeking out what the college offers.

    My son's batallion is lucky, they have no cadets on academic probation, they have done a great job keeping them on track. In the end it is the cadets responsibility to keep up with school work.

    I have read over the past couple years stories such as this post about kids that are having a rough start. Clarkson gives great advice, suck it up and hit it hard the next semester to get back on track. You need to realize that if you skip along the min. GPA requirement over your first 3 years you will have very little chance of getting active duty in the future, you will commission but it will be in the reserves,(Nothing wrong with that by the way) but if AD is what you want you will need to be above the average.

    It has been said many times here, the scholarship was just the beginning, and in some ways the easy part of this journey. The hard work is yet to come, be as prepared as you can be.
     
  7. TN Mom

    TN Mom Member

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    Thanks for your replies.

    My DH and I opted for the 'hands off' approach with our son his freshman year at a SMC, mostly at DS's request and repeated reassurance that he could handle it. He did not heed the advice of his parents, his TAC, his ROO, and his academic officer to talk to his instructors, change his major after the first semester, and seek assistance in weaker subjects.
    He felt it was a sign of weakness to admit he needed help but failed to understand recognizing and acknowledging one's limitations is not a sign of weakness. He understands that now and sees how he brought this on himself.
    Now, the plan is to reach out to the ROO at his college for guidance. DS is not a bad person, just a kid finding his way. He made a huge mistake, but we feel it's recoverable.

    Yes, Goaliedad, butt was the main course at our house for a few days! Ya'll take care.
     
  8. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Sounds like he is learning an important life lesson. I think if he has been working hard but just dug himself in a little too deep, his cadre will work with him to get on a more appropriate track (i.e. major) and salvage what he can of the scholarship.

    Better that he learns these lessons about accepting advice and assistance in choosing a path you know you can achieve now than when he is leading a platoon.

    Make sure to show your pride when he does get things back in order!
     
  9. TN Mom

    TN Mom Member

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    Unfortunately, the scholarship is gone, as he was given one semester to bring his grades up and failed to do so. We'll find out what our options are in next week - stay tuned!
     
  10. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Boy if this doesn't sound familiar.

    My son started his first year as a Civil Engineering Major, I was never too sure that was a good choice for him. He competed the first semester not too happy with where he was at. We talked to him over the break about switching majors and got the line " Oh I think I can do it, I'll just stick with it" We had our doubts, right after midterms we got the call...."Im done with CE" He was able to drop a class that was no longer needed and started on his way to a History Pre-Law degree. He has never looked back and is now thriving.

    Funny how they need a real kick to the senses sometimes to get on the right path.

    I wish your son the best, with the help of the school and cadre he can start moving in the right direction.
     
  11. TN Mom

    TN Mom Member

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    It's good to not be the only parent who's gone through this!!!! DS started out as Civil Engineering major - did not heed suggestions to switch majors before second semester. He switched to Criminal Justice after midterms second semester. Unfortunately, he had reduced his hours to just above fulltime so could not drop any CE classes and remain a fulltime student.
    Hard lessons were learned freshman year.
     
  12. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Ouch!
     
  13. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    TN Mom, my DD isn't my ROTC bound child, but is a child who recently lost her academic merit scholarship at the end of sophomore year. She has changed major(unfortunately late enough that she will need a 5th college year, can you say Super Senior....:wink:) It has been very difficult letting her learn this lesson, even harder for my pocket book since we will continue to help her financially. Since she can't become an independent student for FAFSA purposes, we really have no choice but to either take parent loans or co-sign for her private loans...all kinda of the same.

    She also disregarded suggestions from profs, parents and other adults she interacts with(a service frat advisor has been a great friend and mentor) so it is hard to like them when they made such an incredible mess of things, all the while telling us it will all be fine, they've got it under control.....My thoughts will be with you - next week is our discovery week too -- I'm am making my DS, who is competing for campus based or SMP Army ROTC scholarships in addition to his merit scholarships, read this thread so he can see it really does happen. I'm already hearing the, I've got it Mom, I can handle it....oh, the arrogance of youth....:wink:
     
  14. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Truer words were never spoken.
     
  15. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    been there done that. these are the *difficult* days of parenting. Proof that love between a parent and child is indeed unconditional.

    Dark days happen but most kids crawl their way out. Keep providing encouragement and most will find a way.

    TN mom - sending you a pm......
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  16. singaporemom

    singaporemom Member

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    Have you thought of summer school? My AROTC son, while not in the same situation, took language/culture courses over the summer for 2 years. ROTC paid for the language courses, we paid for the culture courses. Now, you would not have the financial opportunity from ROTC, but if you can afford summer school, it is a much easier way to bring up your gpa. Small course load, less pressure. Depending on if you are instate or out of state, your son might even be able to take classes from a college close to home and transfer credits over.

    When I was in college (dinosaur days) if you took a course at same institution it replaced the grade. Take course at local community college you average the 2 grades.

    Good luck. I wish you the best. There is a reason for everything, but sometimes it is not clear what that reason is for quite some time.
     
  17. cjs

    cjs Member

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    I went through this with my middle one. Kept telling us everything was under control and ended up losing his State academic scholarshop for a year by 1/10 of a point after his sophomore year Once you lose it, it's gone for a year. He just got it reinstated for the 2011-2012 year.
    It was a hard lesson to learn as he was watching his younger brother be awarded very large Academic scholarships to private colleges, academic scholarships from state colleges and the ROTC scholarship as well as other things.
    He felt like money was being thrown at his brother while he was a "loser" who couldn't hold onto what he had been awarded. As we told him, the only one who can control this is you.

    To the OP, I am sorry to hear about losing the scholarship. I hope that something works out in the long run.
    Do they have "grade forgiveness " at the school? I know my older sons's school allows you to use this twice. You retake the class and that grade will basically wipe out the lower grade. The lower grade stays on your transcript I believe but won't stay on your GPA.
     
  18. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    Yep, the dark days are upon us:wink: Always have told my kiddos "I will ALWAYS love you, no matter what, but that doesn't mean I will always LIKE you or your choices". The final transition to adulthood doesn't come easy - 2 year olds were sooooo simple, just didn't know to appreciate them then:biggrin:
     
  19. TN Mom

    TN Mom Member

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    Update

    We spoke with the ROO at son's college - Even though my DS lost his 4yr scholarship, he is not banned from applying for a 2yr scholarship. He has to really work on his grades - switching his major will help greatly. The scholarship competition will be stiff, and focus mainly on grades. Thanks, guys, he's on his way back. I'm on my way to a nervous breakdown.
     
  20. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    :thumb:
    We are here for you!! :smile:
     

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