AROTC Contracting and Service Obligation

I was with you Jcleppe until this:

"Realize the large amount of money that is given to civilian students for merit scholarships every year, a percentage of these students will never finish college or lose those scholarships after 1 year, they also took a scholarship away from another deserving student."

Many colleges, even state colleges use endowments, not tax payer dollars, esp. private colleges to pay for scholarships.

Colleges like VT, a state college with tax payer money, has 550 Million in endowment funds. Duke University has 657 Million. Notre Dame has 6.8 BILLION.

MNDad's POV was TAX DOLLARS, I selected these 3 colleges because they all have ROTC programs. Are you paying as a tax payer in CA to send a student in FL to attend Duke? No you really aren't. However your tax dollars are paying for that cadet from FL to attend Duke. Notice the key words... student and cadet.

You as a taxpayer in VA, and VA alone will pay to send that student to VT on scholarship, even as an OOS because that is a state school which VA residents pay to support. Yet, MNDAD from Minnesota pays no direct taxes for any kid going to VT on merit scholarship.

Big difference.

I do agree with everything else you were stating, esp. about WP commitments.

I personally think they should have that right to walk during the 1st yr. Let's flip this for a second and say they must stay, or owe time.

The fact that the military allows this, it also allows them to offer 3 yr scholarships. If they forced people to stay or owe back time enlisted, more would stay, and as kinnem stated you would not want your child serving with someone who stayed for the wrong reasons.

By allowing them to leave, that frees up money for 3 yr scholarships. These scholarships are given to cadets/mids that stayed even without the financial reward.

Now who do you really want your child standing next to when crap starts flying? The officer who stayed because at 17 he accepted a scholarship and was stuck or the officer who at 17 accepted that the military was not going to give him a dime for his college education, but he wanted to be an officer anyway?

Let them leave IMPO.

I also will add one more perspective, as stated it is a recruitment tool. There are many candidates that are unsure, but because they earned the scholarship and even if they do this for fiscal reasons they realize that this life is for them. That means the military has an asset that if they didn't let them opt out, they may have said no.

I wasn't referring so much to the money spent whether it is tax dollars or not. I was just comparing the two in regard of scholarships given to students that eventually drop out and the fact that the dollars could have been spent and the opportunity given to a student that would have stayed in school.

I agree tax dollars and private money is apples and oranges, I was just addressing the fact that he stated that those the drop the program or scholarship took that scholarship from someone that may have stuck with school or ROTC.

I get a little more testy when someone wastes my tax dollars as well.
 
I wasn't aware of the circumstances and in this case I wold agree with OP leaving if that's his/her desire. I was looking it from the point of view of asking that before applying for or accepting a scholarship offer.

I agree with kinnem's opinion that we probably have beaten the original intent of the thread to death, but a lot of great points were brought up here that could maybe be a catalyst for a new thread to provide real world experiences and insights for future applicants as well as 2016 waiting for a decision and need to make theirs' if the result is an offer. We hope they at least try to understand what they are committing to and what the consequences are of failing to honor that commitment, but that might not always be the case.

Signing off for now, all have a great weekend!
 
That is the problem with internet forums, it is not a real time conversation.

MNDad2015 stated this post #3:
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you want to give AROTC a "test ride" at the taxpayers' expense to see if you like it or not.

You posted this on number 21:
I agree tax dollars and private money is apples and oranges, I was just addressing the fact that he stated that those the drop the program or scholarship took that scholarship from someone that may have stuck with school or ROTC.

I get a little more testy when someone wastes my tax dollars as well.

In essence both of you agree that is tax dollars being spent. Correct?

So let's move on from there.

You accept that he sees it as there should be another barrier, he accepts that even with another barrier there will never be 100% commissioning rate for every cadet/mid.

Let's go back to why the OP as a cadet wanted to find out.

We jumped to the premise he was a candidate. He isn't, he is a college cadet. That means his question was already answered on the 1st page...YES, you can leave.

XPOSTED with MNDad2015.

I agree with his statement that this thread gives insight to the members here, it is also important to realize there are lurkers and even if they don't post they take what is said to heart.

Not only with regards to chancing, our direction, but how we interact together.

Trust me, I am not always Grace Kelly, and I know that!

However, what always brings me back to this site is at the end of the day we can fight like siblings...but will never ever allow an outsider attack our family. These people get it when you live in fear over the OML. They get that emotion of the scholarship ride where your parents think it is a given for their grandchild. They get the fact that at LDAC the kids can't call because their cell phones were confiscated. They get it.

Always remember you were a lurker before you were a poster.
 
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As has been posted on the West Point and Annapolis Boards regarding 1st years who drop:

The Academies, AND ROTC, built in attrition factors into the equation when then select a # of scholarships / Admissions into their programs.

As the current attrition (Medical, Academic, Honor, DOR) rate at the Academies is about 20%, they admit the Commissioning Target # +20% into the Academies. If the attrition were only 10%, then they'd admit Target + 10%. The point is, whatever the attrition is expected to be DOES NOT keep another worthy applicant from getting in.

The same is true for ROTC. If they expect, based on statistical models, for 25% to attrit, then they offer Target Commission # + 25% scholarships. If nobody attrited, the # of scholarships would be 25% lower.

Bottom line is that nobody loses from those who attrit b/c of medical, academic, physical fitness, or other reasons.

Bottom/Bottom Line: We cannot expect 18 year olds to fully appreciate what accepting an ROTC scholarship entails for their life over the next 12 years. This is not comparable to a 2/3/4 year enlistment decision thatt starts now and goes for 8 years (2/3/4 AD, + 6/5/4 Inactive Reserve). For one, the Officer Assession program is 12 years vs. 8 yrs. for Enlistment. Secondly, there are the 2 and 3 years commitments offered to Enlistees. Third, the psychological and mental pressure on an Officer responsible for the lives of others is different and most would say much more intense than the pressure on an enlisted person. It is GOOD that those who learn they don't like the regimented style, the exposure to danger, the pressure of holding others' lives in your hands, or for whatever reason that if commissioned they would have a BAD ATTITUDE, have the opportunity to drop out. We don't want ill fitted people leading our soldiers/sailors/airmen into harms way. If the student at West Point, Annapolis, in ROTC or elsewhere discovers they'd be a bad fit for officership, then everyone wins when they separate. It is worth the cost to identify the ill-fitted, and allow them to separate before they do too much damage in active duty.
 
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Aglahad,

I am not disagreeing with you at all regarding your position why anyone would want a 2nd LT loathing their career in the service.

I am taking disagreement with:


Enlisted members play a HUGE part in the AD world, especially operationally.

That PV2 may be a mechanic for Helos, do you want him just to kick the tires and telling the pilots you are good to go? How about the person who handles equipment checks the chutes for jumpers with the 82nd? How about the guy who is in the hospital handling medical records?

They are the backbone of our military, and I don't want people to assume that you were denigrating their worth with that comment of washing windows, because I know that was never your intention. You just were using hyperbole in the example to make a point.

Hint, hint, please clarify your post.


Enlisted men/women are the backbone of the military that is very true. However, the responsibility of a junior officer encompasses ~40 soldiers. Take the time to listen to any junior enlisted a lot will gripe about CoC, work hours, PT or a host of other issues yet still at the end of the day they do their job. Why? There is someone standing over their shoulder most of the time. An officer has more freedom (even a junior officer) to take his PLT from average to exemplary status, he/she has the ability to make decisions which effect the entire PLT and not just a section/squad or individual soldier. A disgruntled officer who doesn't care is a lot worse then a PVT who does the same. Sure riggers, 15 series or any MOS has responsibility at all level but there are always NCOs around to inspect and make sure everything is going as planned. A junior officer answers to a company or troop commander but from what I have experienced there is a lot of autonomy in between.

My point is that an officer who doesn't care or doesn't want to be there is detrimental to a units welfare (more so than a PVT) which is why I think they have a 1-2 leeway with dropping out from SA/ROTC and not enlisted contracts.


Oh and don't get me started on military medical records haha :p
 
That is the problem with internet forums, it is not a real time conversation.

MNDad2015 stated this post #3:


You posted this on number 21:


In essence both of you agree that is tax dollars being spent. Correct?

So let's move on from there.

You accept that he sees it as there should be another barrier, he accepts that even with another barrier there will never be 100% commissioning rate for every cadet/mid.

Let's go back to why the OP as a cadet wanted to find out.

We jumped to the premise he was a candidate. He isn't, he is a college cadet. That means his question was already answered on the 1st page...YES, you can leave.

XPOSTED with MNDad2015.

I agree with his statement that this thread gives insight to the members here, it is also important to realize there are lurkers and even if they don't post they take what is said to heart.

Not only with regards to chancing, our direction, but how we interact together.

Trust me, I am not always Grace Kelly, and I know that!

However, what always brings me back to this site is at the end of the day we can fight like siblings...but will never ever allow an outsider attack our family. These people get it when you live in fear over the OML. They get that emotion of the scholarship ride where your parents think it is a given for their grandchild. They get the fact that at LDAC the kids can't call because their cell phones were confiscated. They get it.

Always remember you were a lurker before you were a poster.

Ok you lost me on this one.

I think the poor kid just wanted to know if he could drop ROTC the first year without a commitment, I think we answered that with the first response. The following discussion really had nothing to do with the OP, it was entertaining though and hopefully a bit informative.

I don't think I ever "Lurked" or what ever that is, I just found this board awhile ago and asked a question. Always a good read though and I hope it gives some insight and information to future applicants.
 
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who answered my question. It seems like you guys did a pretty good job of figuring things out... Yes, I am a college cadet and I am currently reconsidering my decision to participate in ROTC.

While the program has allowed me to attend a top tier university (goaliedad, I actually had the misfortune of not ending up at my state school and instead, a top OOS private school as I had initially wished for.) My consideration of dropping the program stems not from discovering that the military is unlike how it's portrayed in Hollywood, but from the stress it has put on my academics. There is no ROTC program on my campus and so I must commute an hour to the school that does host a battalion and back every day; the battalion refuses to send cadre here to facilitate PT. :frown: My grades have consequently taken the hit. On top of that, I am very unsatisfied by the general environment of my battalion. We seem to lack the motivation and opportunities enjoyed by others that Iv'e heard. (A good friend of mine is also a scholarship cadet at another battalion.)

Nevertheless, I am only considering the notion of quitting. I am still deciding whether it's worth it for me, professionally. Of course, you have to add in the military dreams since childhood factor... In short, thank's everyone for the help and a wonderful discussion!
 
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who answered my question. It seems like you guys did a pretty good job of figuring things out... Yes, I am a college cadet and I am currently reconsidering my decision to participate in ROTC.

While the program has allowed me to attend a top tier university (goaliedad, I actually had the misfortune of not ending up at my state school and instead, a top OOS private school as I had initially wished for.) My consideration of dropping the program stems not from discovering that the military is unlike how it's portrayed in Hollywood, but from the stress it has put on my academics. There is no ROTC program on my campus and so I must commute an hour to the school that does host a battalion and back every day; the battalion refuses to send cadre here to facilitate PT. :frown: My grades have consequently taken the hit. On top of that, I am very unsatisfied by the general environment of my battalion. We seem to lack the motivation and opportunities enjoyed by others that Iv'e heard. (A good friend of mine is also a scholarship cadet at another battalion.)

Nevertheless, I am only considering the notion of quitting. I am still deciding whether it's worth it for me, professionally. Of course, you have to add in the military dreams since childhood factor... In short, thank's everyone for the help and a wonderful discussion!

Tony,

Thanks for checking back in and clarifying things.

I can completely understand your situation as a couple of years ago when goaliegirl was applying, we considered the cross-town options and goaliegirl ultimately had a choice between a cross-town 3-yr AD at a private (30 minute commute on public transportation) with a better opportunity for ice time on a weak team with the other option being a 4-yr public with a newly formed on-campus unit with a less secure goaltending opportunity. She went with the on-campus and has been very happy. It is a small unit without all the bells and whistles that the more established bigger units have, but the experience I've been told is fine.

When I helped my daughter research, I ruled out any unit that had over 1/2 hour commute specifically because I though the hassle would harm the experience and she would have a hectic enough schedule with being a varsity athlete.

I think you have your priorities straight choosing grades over ROTC given your situation. You can still commission after graduation without going through ROTC, which would make you a 2nd lieutenant just the same. And perhaps at that time they will still have some of the programs that allow you to cancel a bunch of your student loans (that you may now need without the scholarship) after serving for a number of years. Do check it out when the time comes and you are still interested in a commission.

My apologies if I came off as condescending about your possible motives for not wanting to continue with ROTC. I probably shouldn't color things that way (hollywood), although there are a number of cadets who find their unit life to be short of what they expected. It happens.

Best of luck going forward.
 
I am very unsatisfied by the general environment of my battalion. We seem to lack the motivation and opportunities enjoyed by others that Iv'e heard. (A good friend of mine is also a scholarship cadet at another battalion.)

Have you considered transferring to a host school ? It is an easy process if you are non-scholarship, but not so easy if you are a scholarship Cadet.
 
A high school senior is offered a four year scholarship. He contracts the first day he arrives at college/ AROTC. (Is contracting required to validate the scholarship?) Does he have the option of disenrollng from ROTC without service obligation if he decides to do so before his sophomore year if he's a contracted scholarship cadet?

Have you considered transferring to a host school ? It is an easy process if you are non-scholarship, but not so easy if you are a scholarship Cadet.

I think he is at his current school on a 4-year scholarship, unfortunately, although it wouldn't keep him from transferring (sans scholarship) if he wanted a better ROTC experience while completing his degree. I suspect though that he really likes his school and to this parent that probably is the most important thing. The good news is that there are lots of ways to become an officer.
 
Have you considered transferring to a host school ? It is an easy process if you are non-scholarship, but not so easy if you are a scholarship Cadet.
Marist, how hard is it to:

1) petition CC to transfer the scholarship from a Private in one Brigade to a Private in another Brigade after the MSI year?
2) same transfer but *within* the same Brigade?

I don't know how Brigades do their accounting. If the budget is at Brigade level, then it seems that tranferring within the Brigade should not affect the budget.

OP - have you considered asking to transfer the scholarship to another Private school within your same brigade, to a Host Private? Or would the grade impairment you mentioned make it very hard to be accepted into the transfer school via the admissions office?
 
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Marist, how hard is it to:

1) petition CC to transfer the scholarship from a Private in one Brigade to a Private in another Brigade after the MSI year?
2) same transfer but *within* the same Brigade?
1) In my experience, attempting to transfer a scholarship from one BDE to another is much more difficult than applying for and receiving the Scholarship in the first place. I have only seen it happen once. That Cadet had a one star in the family. Probably not a coincidence.
2) Not very hard as long as the following conditions are met:
Cadet leaves a school that has more Cadets than needed for that Mission Set.
Cadet transfers to a less expensive school.
Cadet does not change majors or changes majors to one the Army really likes this year (Engineering, Nursing, etc)
Transfer does not affect commission date.
 
Having done a tremendous amount of lurking on this board over the years, I recall coming across a thread similar to the question answered by Marist College ROTC. Unfortunately, I am in a brigade that I would argue is the weakest in terms of elite university membership. Transferring to my host school would bring me down approximately 15 ranks. For the same reason, I probably won't be considering schools of any other battalion in the brigade, host or cross town. Boy, what a mess I got myself into haha. :cool:

Would it be difficult transferring to a lower cost school of another brigade (in my case from a private to a OOS public, given that the difference in tuition would roughly be $8,000?) It sounds like this would be my best bet if I want to transfer while limiting the sacrifice in academic ranking to a minimum.
 
Having done a tremendous amount of lurking on this board over the years, I recall coming across a thread similar to the question answered by Marist College ROTC. Unfortunately, I am in a brigade that I would argue is the weakest in terms of elite university membership. Transferring to my host school would bring me down approximately 15 ranks. For the same reason, I probably won't be considering schools of any other battalion in the brigade, host or cross town. Boy, what a mess I got myself into haha. :cool:

Would it be difficult transferring to a lower cost school of another brigade (in my case from a private to a OOS public, given that the difference in tuition would roughly be $8,000?) It sounds like this would be my best bet if I want to transfer while limiting the sacrifice in academic ranking to a minimum.

Given that you are not completely attached to your current school (once again I guessed wrong in my previous post), I am going to ask you why you seem very concerned with the ranking of your undergraduate institution?

As a person who works in higher education, the conventional wisdom is that one should be most concerned with the ranking of the institution where you get you highest degree. Nobody asks where you got your bachelor's when you have a masters or phd.

And as factors that go into graduate admissions, ranking of your undergraduate program is relatively low when compared to test scores (GRE,GMAT,LSAT...), your GPA, your academic ECs (research work, participation in academically oriented organizations, etc) and your references.

In the employment world, once you get that first job, where you got your degree (or even whether you have a degree) becomes unimportant in subsequent job searches and can even work against you if you don't live up to the expectations of someone with that degree from that university.

And the Army really doesn't care where you get your degree. That does not enter into the OML scoring for ROTC. Your GPA, ECs, athletics, ranking within your unit, etc. do matter. So there is a school of thought here that one might consider being a big fish in a small pond to maximize your GPA, potential research opportunities (easier to get when you are the brightest kid in the class), and reduce the workload allowing for more EC and ROTC participation.

I'm just playing devil's advocate for the transfer opportunities you seem to want to avoid. Perhaps if you lay out your priorities, perhaps helping you with a course of action might be a bit easier on us folks...
 
Given that you are not completely attached to your current school (once again I guessed wrong in my previous post), I am going to ask you why you seem very concerned with the ranking of your undergraduate institution?

As a person who works in higher education, the conventional wisdom is that one should be most concerned with the ranking of the institution where you get you highest degree. Nobody asks where you got your bachelor's when you have a masters or phd.

And as factors that go into graduate admissions, ranking of your undergraduate program is relatively low when compared to test scores (GRE,GMAT,LSAT...), your GPA, your academic ECs (research work, participation in academically oriented organizations, etc) and your references.

In the employment world, once you get that first job, where you got your degree (or even whether you have a degree) becomes unimportant in subsequent job searches and can even work against you if you don't live up to the expectations of someone with that degree from that university.

And the Army really doesn't care where you get your degree. That does not enter into the OML scoring for ROTC. Your GPA, ECs, athletics, ranking within your unit, etc. do matter. So there is a school of thought here that one might consider being a big fish in a small pond to maximize your GPA, potential research opportunities (easier to get when you are the brightest kid in the class), and reduce the workload allowing for more EC and ROTC participation.

I'm just playing devil's advocate for the transfer opportunities you seem to want to avoid. Perhaps if you lay out your priorities, perhaps helping you with a course of action might be a bit easier on us folks...

Goaliedad, while I do appreciate your insight and advice... Using your logic, why should any intelligent high school student work hard and make an effort to get into a top university? He would be better off doing nothing during his high school years, go to a community college and play big fish in a small pond. Of course I too am playing devil's advocate too at this point, to the opposite extreme.

Having come from an extremely competitive high school, I am under the impression that ranking means that much more. This is especially the case in the field I'd like to go into, finance. When the top investment banks go out to recruit analysts, where do they look first? The top business schools of course. Moreover, I don't want to have "wasted" the work I did put in during high school. It seems very counter-intuitive to strive for something, achieve it, only to give it up and settle for something you could have worked much less for. And maybe even more importantly, the folks at home (who were already hesitant in allowing their son to join the military in the first place) wouldn't be too happy if I decided to transfer to somewhere they've never heard of.
 
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Goaliedad, while I do appreciate your insight and advice... Using your logic, why should any intelligent high school student work hard and make an effort to get into a top university? He would be better off doing nothing during his high school years, go to a community college and play big fish in a small pond. Of course I too am playing devil's advocate too at this point, to the opposite extreme.

Having come from an extremely competitive high school, I am under the impression that ranking means that much more. This is especially the case in the field I'd like to go into, finance. When the top investment banks go out to recruit analysts, where do they look first? The top business schools of course. Moreover, I don't want to have "wasted" the work I did put in during high school. It seems very counter-intuitive to strive for something, achieve it, only to give it up and settle for something you could have worked much less for. And maybe even more importantly, the folks at home (who were already hesitant in allowing their son to join the military in the first place) wouldn't be too happy if I decided to transfer to somewhere they've never heard of.

With regards to the "going the community college route" concept, I think you misread my remarks about rank of school. I didn't say it doesn't matter, but that it comes below other things including GPA. Yes, there is a tradeoff between the 2 items - ranking (directly related to difficulty to achieve top grades) and GPA. Beyond a certain point, there is not a significant increase to your GPA by lowering the ranking of your school. For each person, that is a different place in the spectrum. Of course a 4.0 from a better school is always better than a 4.0 from a lesser school.

So you should study hard in high school. Not because it gets you into a more prestigous school, but because it will make you a more prepared student at whatever school you attend.

Interesting though to see your comment about coming from an extremely competitive high school. It is consistent with how you perceive ranking of undergraduate school in the race to the top.

You make an assumption that the top undergrad finance school is the best path to a career in finance. If the last degree you achieve is an undergraduate degree, this MAY be true. However, I do know a few people who went to schools like Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin who went to work at some of the top investment firms on Wall St. without an undergrad degree in Business (these are Liberal Arts colleges).

You can work your way up the food chain with an undergrad in finance from the bottom, OR you can enter at a higher level with a masters in finance and lower the chances that you get stuck on that bottom rung at the firm.

And getting a masters in finance after pursuing a bachelors is a bit redundant and it says your undergrad years were a waste of time.

Now if your goal is to serve your country for a few years and then turn your undergrad into a career building upon your work experience in the service, your work experience in the service will be far more important to that next employer than the school where you got that undergrad degree a several years earlier.

After receiving my first job offer after earning a business degree from Berkeley over 25 years ago, only my current employer (in higher education) has asked about my degree as a qualification for my position. And a masters degree from a bi-directional institution actually carries more weight than my undergrad in my industry.

One last thought about your comment about getting a degree that you could have worked much less for... You can get a lot more out of a lesser school than you think, if you choose to apply yourself. The school my daughter attends is a second tier state university. It has a Rhodes Scholar to its credit in the recent past. Obviously, that person didn't take the name of the school and say, "I'll just do enough to get my 4.0" and mail it in. My point is that if you have the talent and work hard, there are a lot of schools where you can be very successful. And when a "star" shows up at a smaller institution, s/he is a lot more visible and won't have to compete for the professorial resources necessary to take it to the next level.

As to your parent's attitude towards school prestige, it is their problem and to some degree your problem if you cannot sell what you are achieving elsewhere. And that is all about your confidence in your plan and its execution.

I won't get into people getting business degrees for the wrong reason, but if you truly are facinated by finance and business economics, I would actually recommend an undergrad in math or statistics followed by a masters (or maybe phd) in finance. If you are in finance because it promises a good income, you will find that the work is unfufilling and you will only measure your happiness by the size of your bank account which will never be big enough.

I don't mean to be harsh in my assessment here, but I've been around the block a couple of times and have seen plenty of kids who, for lack of the life experience understanding how careers work, look for the quick path to the lucrative position (before age 30) and find that the path is a lot more difficult than imagined (because it is so crowded with lots of equally bright and hard working kids) and not quite what it is cracked up to be once achieved and very difficult to keep up with because there is always another generation of hungrier and even better educated kids coming up behind them.

Better get off my soap box and go to be now. It is always a pleasure to exchange thoughts with someone who is trying to piece together their path in life.
 
Goaliedad, while I do appreciate your insight and advice... Using your logic, why should any intelligent high school student work hard and make an effort to get into a top university? He would be better off doing nothing during his high school years, go to a community college and play big fish in a small pond. Of course I too am playing devil's advocate too at this point, to the opposite extreme.

Having come from an extremely competitive high school, I am under the impression that ranking means that much more. This is especially the case in the field I'd like to go into, finance. When the top investment banks go out to recruit analysts, where do they look first? The top business schools of course. Moreover, I don't want to have "wasted" the work I did put in during high school. It seems very counter-intuitive to strive for something, achieve it, only to give it up and settle for something you could have worked much less for. And maybe even more importantly, the folks at home (who were already hesitant in allowing their son to join the military in the first place) wouldn't be too happy if I decided to transfer to somewhere they've never heard of.

Do you plan on pursuing an MBA? If so, then goaliedad's
logic would apply. What will be key is where you get your MBA from. Seems to me dropping 15 slots in rank is not a big deal in any case. (if I understood your post.)
If you're graduating from one of the top 100 schools in the country will people really care if its #20 vs #35? I don't think so. They'll probably be more impressed that you were an officer and commanded and were responsible for others at a young age.
Just sayin'. Good luck on whatever course you take. :thumb:
 
tygerdude --

You mentioned Finance. I'm going to make the assumption then that you will choose Reserves upon graduation and are even now targeting either one of the few remaining I-Banks (not back office) or Hedge Funds.

If you are not at HYPSM+ Wharton, plus maybe Dartmouth, plus maybe Duke, Chicago, Northwestern, plus maybe Williams and Amherst, the recruiters will not be on your campus for front office Internships anyway.

If you are not at one of those I mentioned, you will have to know someone on the inside and then have your Summer Internship resume pulled out of the stack of 200 (for one or two openings) by a Managing Director who has a soft spot for ROTC(perhaps his/her own son is ROTC) who will offer you the internship, assuming a good interview and mostly A grades, based on that.

I'm going to mention a few 15 rank position differences, and show you they don't matter:

Notre Dame, #19, and NYU, #34 -- that's a push
UCLA #25, Miami #38. No biggie
George Washington #50, U. of Minnesota #68, another push

15 rank positions means next to nothing in the real world (ROTC vs. no ROTC means much more in an interview), though I will say that on a practical level going from Private to Public would be quite a culture shock, and I can see why you might want to stay in your well ranked Private even if it were to cost the Rents another $100k.

P.S. The soap box portion of GoalieDad's post was right on the mark.
 
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Aspiring vs Attending

Unfortunately, I am in a brigade that I would argue is the weakest in terms of elite university membership. Transferring to my host school would bring me down approximately 15 ranks. For the same reason, I probably won't be considering schools of any other battalion in the brigade, host or cross town. Boy, what a mess I got myself into haha. :cool:
Just thought you might be curious to know that a study in higher education was done about 5 years ago that noted that long range the college attended was less important than the colleges one aspired to attend when tracking post graduate "success." Basicallly another piece of data that supports everything goaliedad is saying and emphasizes that individual effort over time trumps school attended.
 
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