AROTC Downsizing

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Jcleppe, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Just heard from my son today some news regarding their AROTC Program. My son's battalion has a new PMS this year, when the PMS finishes his time at the school the battalion will lose it's Host status. The school will drop it's sattelite programs and will merge with a University that is very close in location but across the state line. The battalion will not get another PMS, they will get a Major and keep the Sgt. The HR will be handled by the other school which will now be the Host school. My son's battalion will still do PT at their school, they may combine some of the labs. the MS classes for now will still be at my son's school. I'm sure dtails are still being worked out.

    I guess this is the sign of things to come, sad in a way, AROTC has been a part of this school since 1894.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Bullet and I were discussing this exact issue last night. It is again a fact of history repeating itself because that is exactly what they did in the 90's.

    I will bet my beloved Myrtle (my avatar) that this will happen also with AFROTC and NROTC.

    This should also reinforce for 17 candidates why it is so important to meet with every ROTC unit you have on your list for scholarships. Going off of TY data (16) will do you no good if it means there are structural changes while you are in the program.
     
  3. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Yes, that's a BIG deal.

    My daughter took SMU off the list of schools on her AROTC application because the cadets at SMU must do PT, take Class, and take LAB at UT-Arlington, a 35-45 minute drive with expected traffic from the SMU campus. that is a minimum of 3 days per week getting from SMU to UT-Arlington and back, about 4-5 hours per week commuting assuming the cadet even has a vehicle at his/her disposal.

    A similar situation held for U. of Miami (FL). I can't remember if it was MSI and MSII, or MSIII and MSIV, but for two years the cadets at U of Miami have to travel 30 minutes to the Host AROTC campus for class and Lab, but did PT at Miami all four years. My DS only learned this by speaking on the phone with the ROO at Miami in the middle of the scholarship process... and moved Miami down from #2 to #5 on her priority list.

    As AROTC reduces the number of HOST schools from the current 270 to a smaller number, this situation will become a critical issue for each scholarship or non-scholarship cadet to consider. Will the extra hours in commuting make it too difficult to keep up grades and still fully and enthusiastically participate?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    It's sad to hear that a 118 year tradition at your DS's school is coming to an end. If things go as you currently stated it doesn't sound like an incredibly difficult burden on your DS though. Sounds like the commute would be once a week for lab, and I'm sure they'll car pool or take some vans over. Still its sad and not what your DS had planned on. :redface:
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Off topic in a way, but it begs the question why the military is now starting on campus units (host) at certain colleges, when all along for yrs these cadets could have been in ROTC, but had to do X-town.
     
  6. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    It looks like they will still do most of the Labs at his school, right now the plan is that in a couple years they may do joint FTX with all other classes, PT, and other Labs at his school.

    Luckily the other school is only 8 miles away, which might be why the Army decided to semi-combine the programs.
     
  7. Packer

    Packer Member

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    This sounds like it will be the same way AFROTC is at your son's school. Still workable but not as good as it was before.
    In my opinion, they picked the wrong university to consolidate to.
     
  8. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    My thoughts exactly.

    My son's university is already the Host School for NROTC for the other university.

    My sons both looked at the other school, they were not impressed with the program and never had any real constructive communication from them. My son's school had 100% of the cadets that wanted AD receive it this year, the other school did not.

    I guess the good thing is that the MS Classes will remain at my son's school. for now it looks like it is just the HR that will move and they will do some combined FTX. At least for now everything else will remain the same. I hope my son can make it through his MS3 year before they make any major changes, so far that seems to be the plan. Of course this is the Army so it could all change again tomorrow.
     
  9. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Jcleppe,

    Just out of curiosity, does your sons school currently only do FTX with only their battalion? I'm asking because I'm at a host school and our FTX's include the 4 other satellite units that fall under my school. I just wasn't sure how other host units do it. Only 1 of these schools sends its cadets to our class/lab (about 5 cadets). The other schools we only see for FTX, CWST, MilBall and other big events.
     
  10. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Right now my son's school only has one satellite school, they only have a couple cadets, the cadets train, attend MS classes and FTX with my son's school. When the make the changes they are going to eliminate the current satellite school altogether.
     
  11. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    The curious part of this is the combining of "some of the labs". To me, this says that they will be reducing the size of the combined unit (both schools) from a commissioning perspective, hence a smaller number of cadets on either campus making leadership labs too small for some exercises perhpas.

    By the time your son is an MSIV, he may not have many MSIs to lead?
     
  12. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Got it, thanks! Another thing, have they spoken any on an increase in standards? I say this because my school has begun overhauling the PT Plans for MS1,2, and 4's to boost PT scores even more (3's are on a whole different system). It could be that since we just got a new PMS from the Ranger Regiment, but it also seems to be more geared toward protecting our cadets from the possibility of being eliminated if the Army decides to cut down hard. I've also seen more of an emphasis placed on cadets that are close to failing height/weight standards. Instead of being encouraged to meet the standard like before, they are being given deadlines (@6 months) to correct or action could be taken.
     
  13. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    goaliedad - I'm not sure why the reduction has to follow the recombination/rehosting. I would have thought they would combine some labs just to communicate some things more efficiently, or handle a situation where the brass is in town or something. Certainly combining FTX makes sense. Can you explain your logic?
     
  14. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    So far there is no plans to reduce too much the size of the battalion, though the current MS1 class is smaller then the other classes. The statement has been made by the PMS that the current MS2 and MS3 classes were oversized for the school. It looks like the plan is to merge some of the things to one school such as the HR and to do the FTX together, the remaining labs such as rappel, Land Nav, CWST, would still be done at my son's school along with PT.

    All Rotc battalions across the contry are seeing a reduction in available contract slots so this type of merger may make sense with a lot of schools.
     
  15. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    My daughter is in a new school (only 4 years old) that hasn't said anything about reductions. All of the schools in her battallion are low-cost publics. It is still small (~30 cadets on her campus), but they do all of their labs (not FTX) on campus (or in the nearby park for land nav practice and other things). She tells me though that the MS3s all take classes at another campus (has always been that way) - I guess so that they prepare for LDAC better. FTX (2x year) has always been a multi-campus affair.

    If your small MS1 class is OK and the MS2 and MS3 classes are large and over enrolled, then it sounds like the cuts are already in place and as the MS1s pass through more and more stuff (labs) may move off campus.
     
  16. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    A Vandal/Coug conglomerate? That's going to be a lot of cadets eh? Where do you guys train out there? Yakima? Or do you come over to Lewis?

    My batt cut around 20 people this semester....including MSIVs....
     
  17. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Contracted MSIVs being cut??? Is this a sign of no-tolerance for indiscretions, medical issues, PT failures, or are they actually cutting fully qualified cadets who successfully completed LDAC?
     
  18. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Paradise Ridge for Land Nav, Camp Grizzly for FTX

    What was the reason for cutting MSIV's,
     
  19. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Well it was a combination of things. Low PT scores, low OML ranking ( even though they all passed LDAC), a couple terrible semesters grade wise (< 2.5 cum) and in general poor performance as TACs/OICs of events led to their demise. I believe the term we heard was "trimming the fat". To be succinct the cuts weren't really a surprise and there may be more. Currently our MSIII/IV classes are rather large in comparison to the MSI/IIs. Historically speaking this size differential makes sense and seems to be rather common among other schools.

    Our batt in general is very good with just a few people who stick out for negative reasons.
     
  20. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Thanks for the clarification.

    Just so I am understanding correctly, are you saying that a MS4 cadet that passed LDAC, has a low but passing APFT, a low OML score, which leads to reserves not removal from ROTC, and poor scores as a TAC. Other then below average scores if these MS4 cadets were within the parameters of the contract they signed, they were still removed from the program. If any of these MS4 cadets or even MS3's were they required pay back scholarship if they were scholarship cadets even though they were fulfilling, albeit barely, the contract they signed.

    Removing 20 cadets....that's a lot of fat to trim. I was surprised when my son's battalion let one cadet go, a MS1.
     

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