AROTC Has Not Gone As Planned or Hoped

F

Future2LtMom

5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
393
Well, it's been a long time since I've been out here. Things have not gone anything like DH & I expected & I would appreciate some input. DS received 3-yr AROTC national scholarship & was promptly upgraded to 3 1/2 upon arriving on campus. In addition to that, he also left for college with two additional scholarships, so he was positioned to come out of college with no debt & money in his pocket.

Well, he is just now finishing up his first semester of his junior year, and he has only had two successful semesters out of the five. He has lost ALL scholarships! In terms of his performance in ROTC, he is one of the top cadets in terms of leadership scores, volunteering, he did Ranger Challenge, good grades in his ROTC classes, etc. He loves everything about the military & ROTC -- he just isn't performing scholastically. He has readily admitted that he does not like college and would not still be there were it not for the fact that he loves ROTC. After he bombed his 1st semester of freshman year, he considered dropping out and going in enlisted. After a long pow-wow around the kitchen table, he decided to stay in. But now that we are still dealing with same issues at the end of this semester, DH & I are going into tough love mode. It's a very difficult transition for us to make because, until he left for college, he's never given us this much grief.

Assuming DS still wants to try and stick it out in college & get his act together, DH is not willing to co-sign on a lease or student loans. He feels if DS is going to goof off, we are not going to be on the hook for it.

DS is now considering dropping out of ROTC & college and going in enlisted. DS told me that he could drop out of ROTC and "pay back" his ROTC scholarship through service (which he is gladly willing to do). I told him that, based on what I've seen in the past on this forum, it is not his choice. Instead, it's the Army's decision as to whether he pays back cash or pays back through service. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Mom Who's Screen Name Has More Than a Touch of Irony
 
Which is it? Is he having trouble academically or is he a goof off? I would think that if he were a complete goofball ROTC wouldn't have lasted this long. Has he lost the AROTC scholarship as well? Is his GPA high enough to graduate? Is his GPA high enough to commission? If the answer to those two questions is yes...I would encourage him to stay and get the diploma. Then sort things out afterwards.
 
Yes, he's also lost the AROTC scholarship. He's primarily struggling due to goofing off. There have been a couple of classes that have truly given him trouble. But, he just isn't doing what he needs to do to make it work. Due to Dual Enrollment & AP in high school, he went to college with 39 credit hours & a good GPA. So, in theory, in addition to coming out of school with no debt & money in his pocket, he could have come out of it with two majors or two degrees. Instead, he's used this "credit hour cushion" to blow off classes thinking that he has extra credit hours to make them up. So, that's how he's managed to stay in ROTC so long. If he came in as a true freshman, he'd be done already. He's already contracted, so I'm under the impression that if he doesn't flunk out of school, he will still get his commission. It's just highly questionable whether or not he will get active duty (which is what he wants). Although I'm not sure yet, I think that he hasn't yet flunked out of school. We'll know more when he comes home for Christmas break.
 
We went through something similar with one of our kids. Not ROTC but a full loss of scholarship after freshman year. Suffice it to say there were some blunt discussions.

We ultimately decided to co-sign loans. Kid graduated with honors and now is in a top tier grad school AND employed full time.

Looking back, there was a degree of emotional immaturity that needed to be purged. Postponing college for a year after HS, rather than going straight in, probably would have been prudent but parental hindsight is always 20-20.

My advice to you, parent to parent, is to consider the desired outcome for your DS and have faith things will sort themselves out. He is 12-18 months from his commission, scholarship or not, and he will - someday - be grateful to his parents for keeping faith in him, despite that faith being sorely tested.

I hope things work out for your DS, and his parents.
 
Last edited:
A family member had a similar situation with their son. Once the son realized that he was ready to commit to school and buckle down, the parents refused to pay for the initial startup to go back to college. so they made a deal with their son. You pay for the semester and we will reimburse every dollar for each course that has an acceptable grade with a bonus. Now the son has a degree and a wonderful job and his college was paid for. Until the student is ready to stay focused, they refused to pay to play. It is up to the student. Is your son at this point? What about a major change?
 
Until he comes home next week, it's difficult to know what's truly going on in his head in terms of is he ready to buckle down. He's going to see an academic advisor about a change of major, but I have a hard time believing he's going to have enough time left in his college career to be able to make the switch. Again, we'll know more next week. I guess we're just trying to figure out if he would be able to repay his scholarship thru service as enlisted Army, if he were to decide to drop out of school.

I definitely appreciate everyone's input. We're sad, angry, & disappointed, all at the same time. Just so much potential being wasted.
 
It seems like your DS is using enlisting as his backup plan, and as you know it will not be his choice if he pays back his ROTC commitment with enlistment or cash. That will be the Army's choice.

But, more importantly would your DS really prefer to be an enlisted soldier or commission as an officer. To me there is a huge difference. The financial difference between enlisted and officer is huge from the beginning and the gap gets bigger as they move up in rank. And then there is the level of responsibility and the opportunity to lead. Being an officer is not for everyone nor is being enlisted. Nothing you don't already know.
 
Agree with 5Day that the Army will choose whether he repays via enlistment or cash. Last several years it has always been cash as far as I'm aware. I suppose he might work something out through his cadre especially given his good performance in ROTC. I would also point out that, IMO, if he sticks it out, stays and commissions, he's not likely get get active duty. I would think his GPA would probably drop him down the OML (but I am just guessing).

Assuming he has to pay cash to reimburse, then financially that should actually be more expensive than finishing if he knuckles down. I suppose financially it might be wiser to finish and commission, even into the reserves, just from that perspective. Just something to think about.

Tough stuff to wrestle with. I hope it all comes out well in the end for all concerned.
 
We spoke w/DS on phone tonight. Short version is that he's decided to drop the program. He said there have been other scholarship cadets before him that have dropped and have been allowed to enlist to pay the Army back (I'll believe it when I see it). Even if he has to pay it back in cash, he's still going to enlist. He said he should have enlisted from day one. He knows he'll go back to college in the future, but he just doesn't want it right now. He also hasn't closed the door on possibly seeking another path to commission in the future (i.e. OCS). I'd be lying if I said we weren't disappointed, but we will support his decision. It's been a very emotional day in our household, and I think I'm going to have a hot date with a glass of Woodford Reserve.

Good night and thank you for your input, and especially your prayers.
 
Thru hard experience I can tell you that this is going to have to get resolved by your son. Among other things he needs to talk with the Professor of Military Science about relieving his obligation thru enlistment rather than paying the Army. And it definitely can be done thru enlisted service as opposed to payment, but it is something that the Army will decide. I personally know a young man who went thru this about 4 -1/2 years ago when he left school one month before what should have been his Graduation. The PMS recommended service in lieu of payment but it took 5 months for that to be approved and it was kind of nerve racking for him while he waited to find out if he owed the Army enlisted time or almost $120k. (And enlisting without getting it approved is a bad plan- it would take virtually all of his available income as a junior enlisted soldier for a very long time to pay back those kind of dollars). He is a SGT and a rifle squad leader now in the 82d and I think happier than he would have been as an Officer - (though I think it pains him some when he is together with his classmates who are now Captains.) In the end though- your son is a grown man and you can only do so much. You also have no obligation to throw good money after bad, so he needs to figure out what he is doing and live with that choice - to include possibly owing a lot of cash for a long time to come. Good luck.
 
bruno said:
Thru hard experience I can tell you that this is going to have to get resolved by your son. Among other things he needs to talk with the Professor of Military Science about relieving his obligation thru enlistment rather than paying the Army. And it definitely can be done thru enlisted service as opposed to payment, but it is something that the Army will decide. I personally know a young man who went thru this about 4 -1/2 years ago when he left school one month before what should have been his Graduation. The PMS recommended service in lieu of payment but it took 5 months for that to be approved and it was kind of nerve racking for him while he waited to find out if he owed the Army enlisted time or almost $120k. He is a SGT and a rifle squad leader now in the 82d and I think happier than he would have been as an Officer - (though I think it pains him some when he is together with his classmates who are now Captains.) In the end though- he is a grown man and you can only do so much. You also have no obligation to throw good money after bad, so he needs to figure out what he is doing and live with that choice - to include possibly owing a lot of cash for a long time to come. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your post, bruno. I think he stayed on the path he was on for so long because he was afraid of letting us down. Once we assured him that we would support whatever decision he came to, even though he would be responsible for any ramifications of those decisions, you could hear the change in his voice - like a huge weight off his shoulders.
 
Future2LtMom said:
Thank you for your post, bruno. I think he stayed on the path he was on for so long because he was afraid of letting us down. Once we assured him that we would support whatever decision he came to, even though he would be responsible for any ramifications of those decisions, you could hear the change in his voice - like a huge weight off his shoulders.
Click to expand...
Would you mind sharing what his major is? Does he just have no interest in it? Is it too hard for him? He's really late for a change of major, but I'm wondering if that's part of the problem with his grades?
 
His major is History & he's always been passionate about it (particularly anything to do with military history and, more specifically, Greek military history). But, he just doesn't seem ready (aka mature enough) to do what it takes to get through the other classes that are required for college (foreign language, math, music appreciation, etc.). He said he also doesn't like sitting in a classroom listening to a lecture that drones on & on. He's happiest when he's "doing something", such as FTXs, PT, coming up with strategy, etc. Even some members of his cadre have told him that he would make an excellent NCO - he has a very hands-on leadership style. When other cadets are asked in their mid-term counseling sessions with cadre who they go to if they have a question or problem, my son's name is repeatedly brought up. So, as difficult as this is for my husband & me to swallow, he's just not ready for school. We have no doubt that he'll eventually go back. DS has even said he'll eventually go back. I think he just wants adventure right now. This current situation is by no means a surprise. Even when he was coming out of high school he was saying he wanted to enlist. His father & I sat him down & discussed the differences in pay, amenities, etc. between being enlisted & being a commissioned officer. We know quite a few current & former military officers, & had him sit down and speak with them. We talked with him about the opportunity for an AROTC scholarship. So, he decided to forego enlisting and instead chose the officer route. But, here we are, five semesters in, and only two have been scholastically successful. He's absolutely miserable. We saw him at Thanksgiving and he looked like hell.
 
OP - Try to remember how young he is, and that this is a single door closing. I watch my 17 year old struggling to make decisions I wouldn't want to at my age - go in debt for 100K, decide on a career that may or may not be what I want to do in 20 years, sign up for 8 years of military service not knowing where or what it will be, postpone even the thought of a serious relationship, etc, etc, etc. I had my son late - I was almost 40 - and even so I have to remind myself that decisions at 20 are not as important as they seem to be at the time. Actually, it sounds like your son is aware of his strengths and weaknesses, and is trying to play to his strength. He may end up being the Sergeant that every officer wants, and happy and fulfilled in a position that suits him.
 
elijay, thank you for saying that. It is so true. We, as parents, want what we think is best for our children. Neither my husband nor I come from very supportive families. So, it was very important to us to provide our son with as many opportunities as possible in order to maximize his potential. My husband & I had to put ourselves through college, so a college education is very high on our list of priorities for our son. But, we've just had to accept the fact that his path to success is different than what we envisioned. I'm sure things will work out as they should and I'm just going to have to shift my mindset to supporting him in what he seems to truly want, and not in what we think is best for him.
 
As a parent of a current high school senior I can empathize somewhat with your situation. As I read through the threads, a common theme seemed to be how sad/angry/disappointed you are because of the "potential being wasted." Yes, as parents, we only want what is best for our kids. It's hard to understand how our years of experience can't be translated to our kids so they can reap the benefits. Several years ago I was given some advice that went like this..."if you, as a parent, continue to push your son/daughter into something that you believe is best for him/her and it ends up going badly, the result is he/she will blame YOU for the rest of YOUR life, but if you coach, love and guide your son/daughter and allow him/her to make their own decision and his/her choice doesn't w0rk out, then it become a strong life lesson, but it is his/her lesson." It really resonated with me because as much as we believe we know what's best, it is not our life to live. It seems your son may be better off enlisting given "He's happiest when he's "doing something", such as FTXs, PT, coming up with strategy, etc..". I applaud you for taking the view of supporting him and his goals and making your goals secondary. There's a line in the cadet prayer that goes..."Make us to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong..." In closing, as our son prepares for his next step in life, his path is probably not what I originally believed was "best" for him, but have truly sought to understand his motivations and worked to support his goals. Your son sounds like a wonderful young man who has an awful lot to offer.
 
If your DS is offered the option and enlists, there will be opportunities to complete his degree while on AD:
http://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/H...al_Benefits_Page/Tuition_Assistance_(TA).html

There will be post-separation benefits:
http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/docs/pamphlets/ch30_pamphlet.pdf

There are many enlisted commissioning programs, if he decides he wants to return to that path.

It sounds like he has sound leadership skills. It may be he will take a roundabout path to his career.

He could be Sergeant Major of the Army one day...

It's a great sign you have good two-way communications.
 
@Future2LtMom
..."We're sad, angry, & disappointed, all at the same time".............
..."He said he also doesn't like sitting in a classroom listening to a lecture that drones on & on. He's happiest when he's "doing something", such as FTXs, PT, coming up with strategy, etc."......

Hi
Sounds very familiar to me. I have one of the same, he is a Freshman. My son and your son are very similar. I can understand your heartache. Please be supportive of your son, it is not his fault. Very likely he has a learning deficit, it doesn't mean he is stupid, but he has a learning deficit in learning the traditional way.

My son is also struggling with Math, he has always struggled with it. Give him anything physical, social he will ace it. But when it comes to sitting down and studying or math, even if he tries his level best he can barely make it through. I am hoping for the best for my son, and hoping he will make it through college and not drop out, but it is not in my hands.

I do not know if I should chastise him [at one time I did, just to realize that it is not his choosing, he was trying hard to please the parents] or how to support him with out giving up on him.

I totally understand your pain and heartache. Sighhhh...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top