AROTC - What Happens After Commissioning?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by h2ocop, May 15, 2012.

  1. h2ocop

    h2ocop Member

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    My son just finished his MS1 year at Illinois and he mentioned that most guys just go home and wait 10-months after graduation and commissioning for their branch training etc...to become available. Whats he talking about? Wouldn't they schedule training in the summer after graduation?
     
  2. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    It all depends on what the cadet branches and when there is availability at the branch school.

    Some will leave within a week or two after graduation, some will wait up to nearly a year. It will depend on how often each branch has start times for the school.

    Your son is correct, after a cadet graduates they will just go home and wait for their school to start. Some cadets will go work at LDAC and some may become Gold Bar Recruiters (Working at a ROTC Battalion) while they wait for their school to start, the rest can get a job at home while they wait or just enjoy the summer.
     
  3. h2ocop

    h2ocop Member

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    Thanks

    It is exactly as he said - was a surprise to me. Thanks for your response.
     
  4. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    I imagine there are 16 different answers to the question... as each Branch will have its own timeline and procedure.
     
  5. cisco

    cisco Member

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    Any rough estimate you could give for the schools' availability?

    Is there a "Branch Night" that contracted cadets will have like that of USMA to find out what their branch is?
     
  6. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    You could probably multiply each of those 16 branches by 12 months as well.

    In my son's battallion this year there are 3 cadets that received Aviation, one will go June 1st 2012, one December 20th 2012, and one April 29, 2013.

    Every branch has report dates that start right after graduation, the question becomes which report date you will get.

    If I have my facts straight, USMA grads are able to select their report dates from a list based on their OML standing. ROTC cadets don't see that list and are assigned a report date based on availability and I have heard their OML standing.

    Basibally, someones is always going to be dissappointed, there will be the cadet that was looking forward to having the summer off before starting their school, then there will be the cadet that is married with a child and wants to go as soon as possible. You can guess what happens, the first cadet has a report date a week after graduation and the second cadet is in limbo for 4 months waiting to report.

    Don't forget, the new 2Lt does not get paid or have any medical benefits during this time, their obligation time to the Army does not start until a week or so before they report to their branch school.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    No, there is really no estimate you can get as to when your school could start.

    Every battalion handles the Branching differently, at my son's school the PMS called each cadet into his office individually and gave them their branch assignment. I have heard of other battalions that have actually had a special event where they call each cadet up on stage, hand them an envelope with their branch pin enclosed. The cadet opens the envelope and yells out what branch they received, now mind you that this is the first time the cadet will learn his branch. I can only imagine what happens when someone opens the envelope to find they just got their last choice branch. I think I would like the private meeting much better.
     
  8. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    We live in the times we live in. When my son started this goal of becoming an officer we had a surge of force in Iraq and planning for the same in Afghanistan. There was additional planning of increasing Lts and Capts in Brigade structures. Anyone who was qualified to meet minimum standards was actively recruited and encouraged to join ROTC. The economy was strong and many soldiers left the militiary when enlistments were complete. The militiary needed more officers than were readily available.

    It is completely different now and may be for a few years. The economy is struggling. Fewer active militiary are leaving. The branches must deal with less funding. This means less opportunities. Limitations mean delays in training.

    You are going to have to have patience.
    You are going to have to excel at all things.
    You are going to have to be flexible.
    Always be yourself.

    Maybe this will make you all even better officers. It will be worth it.

    Best of luck
     
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I expect I know what happens in that public ceremony you describe and they don't get their desired branch.... they yell enthusiastically anyway! Anything else would be poor form I would think.
     
  10. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    You are so correct.

    The friend of ours who's son went through this type of branch event said that while each person yelled load and clear, he could still see the disappointment on their face and there was usually a short delay before they yelled out. Good branch counseling from the PMS usually minimizes the dissapointment, but there are still a few that need a little time to process the selection. I can say one thing, when I was able to talk to my son's fellow cadets at commissioning, everyone of them seemed awfully proud of what branch they had and where they were going, also the sign of good PMS counseling and leadership.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Jcleppe,

    Just out of curiosity why such a big time lag between the 3? Is that typical?

    DS has aviation too, but between the 1st and the last (13 cadets with rated), there is only about 4 months difference. In the AF case, they have multiple UPT bases, so the clusters are more about their UPT base assignment and class date at that base than anything else. I.E. Columbus cadets are going July/Aug, Laughlin Sept/Oct, Vance Oct/Nov, Sheppard Oct/Nov.

    Is that the case, each cadet has a later RNLTD because of the class start date? Does the Army place OML into the equation for the class date?

    Or does the last cadet to go have training he needs to get done prior to reporting?
     
  12. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    It's typical because Rucker starts one class per month and they have to cycle in a ton of USMA grads and warrant officers. They do a lot of fuzzy math at 1st Avn Bde to properly cycle in all the personnel. USMA grads get priority in most cases.
     
  13. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Keep in mind also that some Army LTs will be Reserve or Guard and their school dates will be impacted by their component. Add to that the fact that school dates get moved up or back. Some of this years class have already had their dates changed one or two times, some are getting the opportunity to work at LDAC or LTC prior to their Basic Course dates, and some will serve as Gold Bar recruiters and get on the payroll early through that program.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Thanks for the info.

    AF also typically will send AFA grads 1st, and filter in ROTC, OCS with the remaining slots available. In the AF the start date rarely moves, it is more the UPT/FTU graduation date that moves due to weather, maintenance, etc. issues.

    They also do send many ROTC grads to "casual" status at other bases like the Army. DS will go casual, than to IFS, than casual again at his UPT base before starting UPT.

    DS's date has changed 4 times in the past 5 months. First it was 5/10; quickly changed because commissioning date is 5/26. Than it was 5/31 (TX), that changed to Feb 2013 within weeks. For the last few months it has been RNLTD 9/1/12.

    Our DS has come to understand why the running joke in the AF is not to bank on anything regarding orders until you report and the incoming base says: Welcome, Lt. BulletDS1, we have been expecting you!

    One last question out of curiosity. What size is the typical class size for Rucker? Is it 50, 100, 150? What is the percentage that actually wing from the original class size? 75, 85, 95%?

    Also what if they wash out, will they get new career fields, or separated from the Army? The AF washing out can equal a pink slip for some, not all, but in this new military it is occurring at a higher rate than previous yrs.

    If they wash out, and can stay, do they get to request the new field, or will they be assigned to whatever field the Army needs at that current moment?

    I just ask because I think for cadets thinking about going rated this type of information will help them in the future with what the current environment is like for rated.

    My final one last question...I swear...does the Army have "drop" night? In the AF that is the night where the UPT students find out their airframe. It is a big deal for them.

    I love learning how the different branches operate because it is interesting to see their perspectives.
     
  15. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    It all depends on needs of the Army. In years past, the washouts usually got reassigned. Nowadays, I can't tell you for sure. The Army will keep or dump people as needed. I don't know what the washout rate is. From my original advanced aircraft course, we started with 12 and lost 3. That's purely anecdotal.

    Classes run between 30 and 40, generally. Once they split into their airframes, it changes.

    Yes, there is an aircraft selection date. It's usually after they complete instruments, though they may change the timing a bit. It's a big deal, obviously, but they don't make a night out of it. It happens in a classroom one morning.
     
  16. alparent

    alparent Member

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    What does "going rated" mean?
     
  17. sprog

    sprog Member

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    It's solely an Air Force term. It means the officer has an aeronautical rating.

    Pilots, Combat Systems Officers (used to be called Navigators), and Air Battle Managers are rated officers. I think it also includes the new RPA pilot AFSC and flight docs.
     
  18. alparent

    alparent Member

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    Thank you sprog! What are those who branch something other than aeronautical called? If you branch aviation out of the USAFA, are you a rated officer as well?
     
  19. sprog

    sprog Member

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    shoe clerks. ;o). That is what operators call them.

    There is no "branch" like in the Army. The officer is rated or is non-rated. The vast majority of operations are done by rated officers with a few exceptions. I was a missile officer, but that is the rare exception of a non-rated guy who does operations. It is the "Air" Force, so most of the operational stuff involves flying. The non-rated guys, save for limited exceptions like combat rescue officers, missileers, space ops. guys, and maybe intel. are in support roles.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    alparent,

    Those who do not go UPT/UNT are called non-rated.

    You can go aeronautical engineering and not go rated. The degree is not the defining factor regarding rated vs. non-rated. Winging is the factor.

    In the AF as a C400 aka MSIV cadets meet a board, their OML will play a factor in their career field.

    AFROTC uses specific criteria with specific percentages for each category for rated boards (Pilot, Nav, CSO, ABM, RPA).
    ~ CGPA
    ~ PFT
    ~ CC rec
    ~ FT rank
    ~ TBAS*

    * TBAS is a test only given to rated applicants. It is akin to the ACT/SAT for HSSP. Non-rated do not take TBAS.

    If an AFROTC cadet does not get picked up for rated, they live another day and fight for a non-rated slot. I do not know if the Army does the same for ROTC.

    I know I am going off topic because this was an AROTC thread, but if posters/lurkers are trying to decide between the two and they want flying it is very important to understand the difference.

    There are a ton of hurdles in ROTC to clear before winging, be it Army or AF.

    I am willing to bet my Myrtle that Jcleppe (Army) and myself (AF) as proud parents of 2012 commissioned officers will live the next yr with baited breath everytime they have sim, or flight.

    Scout illustrated with his yr group 30% will not fly in the Army. AF that number is roughly the same.

    Scholarships are the breeze regarding AD life.
     

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