Athletic ability effect on nomination / admissions decisions

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by mdad, Nov 17, 2009.

  1. mdad

    mdad New Member

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    How much weight does athletics play in the admissions process at USMA? For example, if a player is a middle of the pack applicant (academically), excellent character guy, and is a top athlete who is being recruited by football does that help his chances? Marginal? More than marginal? This player also is a top track guy in his state.

    Thank you,

    Mdad
     
  2. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    It weighs a whole bunch, especially if he's being recruited by the USMA Football team. I'd say start packing. :thumb:
     
  3. armybratkl

    armybratkl Member

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    I have a friend who has decent grades, average class load, and a 25 ACT. She was being recruited for USMA Softball, and she received her LOA in early October.
     
  4. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    Sadly, football by itself is enough to get you in if you're being recruited.

    Of course still try your hardest with everything else.
     
  5. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

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    I don't think there is any "sadly" to it; the truth of the matter is that if SAs recruited only 3.5 and above and 2100 SATs to play football, the team would have a tough time beating a mediocre high school team, let alone a D1 college team. Football (and several other sports) generates both revenue and attention for the academy. Neither of those is a bad thing. If a football player graduates last in the class due to grades, do you know what they call him at graduation? Lieutenant. However, since class rank is a combination of grades, military, and physical, I would think it doubtful to see an athlete at the bottom. :thumb:
     
  6. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    (Condescending remark noted, as USCGA has won the Bogan division of the NEFC 2 of the last 4 years without the hassles and scandels of big-time college D1 recruiting, all while going after 3.5 and 2100 SAT players. Pretty sure they could beat any high school team in the country. There's a lot of good football being played at the D3 level, don't be a D1 snob. :wink: )

    My question is, why must they (USNA/USMA/USAFA) play Division 1 football?

    Why not drop down to D3 and avoid all the football recruiting and the appearance of "lesser standards" altogether?

    Does money mean that much to them?
     
  7. Livinlarger

    Livinlarger Member

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    Make no mistake, D3 schools recruit just as aggressively as D1 schools. They use a slightly different approach, but "promise" the same things. The only difference is that they recruit D3 caliber athletes as opposed to D1 caliber athletes.
     
  8. Grannie

    Grannie Member

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    Athletic Recruiting at USMA

    I must step in to defend the recruiting practices at USMA. Our boy is a recruited athlete and has his file completed including his MOC nomination (verbal notification by Senator just received) and is awaiting that step to be received by The Academy; and then hopefully, he will receive his nomination for the Class of 2014 by Christmas.

    He was recruited by several of the Ivys and other top notch schools but the admission process and thoroughness of these schools paled in comparison to the rigors of applying the USMA. I cannot tell you how many times he was asked, "What are your grades?" "What is your SAT?" and "How will your recommendations be viewed?" as the recruiting process played out. I firmly believe that he would not have been recruited had he not been able to back up his athletic skills with his intellectual capabilities.

    Many students receive consideration through family military history or have other talents highly desired by The Academy. For many, their skills, whether in languages, engineering, etc., allow them have the opportunity to attend the best university in the country; nor the opportunity to serve his country at the level the education from USMA allows.
     
  9. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Mdad - Athletics is very important at West Point. Not only for those who are Corps Squaders but EVERY Cadet is an athlete. If your son were not being recruited for football, his athletic abilities would be a very positive addition to his application.

    Grannie is right - even if you are a top athlete you must qualify academically to gain an appointment. This means having a rigorous scholastic record and qualifying test scores. A recruited athlete who does not qualify on account of academic deficiencies MAY be offered a spot at USMAPS.

    Furthermore - remember that West Point is looking for a scholar/leader/athlete but few Cadets are strong in all three areas. Most are exceptional in one or two. They aim to have the scholar, leader, athlete mix of Cadets in each company and in the Corps as a whole.

    Finally - to answer Luigi - who asks this question everytime it arises (perhaps you should have a conversation with the Athletic Directors)- the reason the *Big* three play D1 sports is for the competition and national exposure. While Army has been *deficient* in football over the past several years - their other teams as well as Navy and AF teams are very competitive on the D1 level.
     
  10. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    I didn't mean it as a blanket statement Grannie. I am well aware that a good portion of recruited athletes are competitive academically as well. I am just speaking about the other portion which do not qualify academically. I have personally met a lot of recruited athletes who's SAT scores were between 900 and 1000 along with extremely low GPA. These same people who I personally know are currently failing 1-4 classes (keep in mind there are roughly 7 lessons left in each class right now). A large portion of them also have admitted they came only for the sport and some will leave after two years to continue playing at a different college. I will not even pretend to know the rough estimates of how big this percentage is, but what I will tell you is that it does in fact exist. It may be as small as 1%, but it happens.
     
  11. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Which is it? A good portion? Small as 1%?

    Recruited athletes MUST qualify. If they can't qualify for direct entry then they qualify by attending and graduating from USMAPS.
    I don't know how many Corps Squaders you know but the vast vast majority are highly qualified.
    There may be some who say they will leave after two years to play at other colleges but this is quite a daunting task. There are also quite a few cadets who are NOT athletes who will leave after two years to attend another college. On other side there is a starter on the Women's basketball team who came to West Point after attending another college as a recruited player. She had to sit out her entire plebe year because of NCAA rules but was willing to do that to have the opportunity to be a West Point cadet.
    There are plenty of Corps Squaders who excel academically and are dedicated to becoming and Army Officer.
     
  12. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    Like I said, they exist. I don't have any statistics for it which is why I said it can range from a good portion to 1%. If you somehow gathered statistics please show me because I would like to know how you know the "vast majority" are highly qualified.
     
  13. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    It's easy to figure out - look at the sports offered by USMAPS - they are limited. The only women's sports offered are basketball, track and cross country. Now go look at the womens' basketball roster - only 4/16 attended USMAPS. This means that 75% of the womens' basketball team was fully qualified and received a direct appointment. Out of 18 cross country team members two attended prep, one to USMAPS and one to NMMI. Hence, 16/18 were fully qualfied out of high school for a direct admission. Of the 37 members of the womens' track team only 3/37 attended USMAPS.
    Of women recruited athletes 100% of the womens' soccer team, 100% of the womens' softball team, 100% of the womens' swim/dive team, 100% of the women's volleyball team, 100% of the women's tennis team were all fully qualifed and did not attend prep.

    When you are bored you can do the same excercise with mens' sports.
     
  14. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    Well it appears it is closer a minority than the majority of recruited athletes. I wonder how USMAPS got the reputation of being an athlete breeding ground if so few go there.
     
  15. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Finally, to answer Just_A_Mom, who answers the question the exact same way every time it arises (perhaps she should have a conversation with the Athletic Directors at USCGA and USMMA) -

    Why does Army need national exposure for its football team?

    What possible reason can you give for a D1 football player making a better Army officer than a D3 football player?
     
  16. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    The exposure is not for the football team but for the United States Military Academy at West Point. For sure, you have heard of it - you might be surprised to know that many many people west of the Mississippi have never heard of it.
    All of the other sports provide excellent exposure as well - soccer, wrestling, baseball, swimming etc. Why should they not compete at the highest collegiate level possible?
    Having a few bad football seasons is not really a reason to compete at D3 than D1.
     
  17. BR2011

    BR2011 USAFA Cadet

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    first off, the standards for simply qualifying for an appointment are not that high so some not so bright academically but gifted athletically football players can easily get in to any of the academies.

    the thing is though is that it doesnt really matter. academics do not make you a good officer. in fact, i would rather serve with someone who has proven that they can be cool under pressure in a sports game than someone who can solve math problems in their head any day
     
  18. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

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    BR2011 has some good points. While the standards may not be that high, most cadets are above the standard. The minimum allows the academies to recruit not only athletes, but anyone else they feel is necessary to provide the academy with what they see useful. It might be a football player, it might be an "under-represented minority." They'll either do what is necessary to stay in at the academy, or they'll leave. Athletes are separated for grades every semester, just like anyone else who does not maintain acceptable grades. Look at the class pages and you will see that a great number of cadets had leadership experience as the team captain in HS. Many of them continue to excel as leaders on the academy sports teams. Additional leadership opportunities certainly cannot hurt the development of future officers.
     
  19. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Neither does Division 1 athletic competition, any more than Division 3 athletic competition.
     
  20. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

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    Luigi, can a school play D1 baseball, soccer, volleyball, hockey, etc and then D3 football? I have no idea; but am thinking it has to be the same across the board. USMA is very competitive currently in every other sport at the D1 level. Why would they move to D3? Give the new coach a few years to rebuild and recruit....who knows? Stranger things have happened. :thumb:
     

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