Battalion looking to cut approximately 20% of uncontracted cadets

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by bsherman92, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. bsherman92

    bsherman92 Member

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    I got word from my Squad Leader that the cadet CoC would like the lower MSI's and II's to know that if they are not contracted by the end of this semester, there is a chance that they will not be able to go on into the spring semester of AROTC and that they will be disenrolled. I generally acknowledged this, but I knew it was for real after my MS instructor mentioned it to me in a counseling session (it was about my PT score). I believe I'm in the lower half of cadets: I'm a first-year MSII, freshly enrolled, my PT score is just above passing, and I haven't been able to do any extra-curricular ROTC activities (Color Guard, Ranger Challenge, PR) because I live in a totally different area and school. This was a unique semester, and probably the best I've had yet; I did love my experience and I do wish I could stay. I have attended every PT, remedial PT, FTX, class, and lab session, and they were all pretty awesome. However, it is inevitable that the aforementioned downsizing will occur. When your MS instructor regrets to tell you up-front, you know it will probably happen. I'm weighing my options right now and waiting to see the cadre's response to my enrollment, which will probably be revealed before the Fall semester ends, but I'd also like to be prepared in case it does happen. To be honest, no matter how much I enjoyed it, it was taking its toll on me, and as my mech engineering courseload gets heavier later on, disenrollment might actually be for the best. There are a few things I've been thinking of as an alternative and to make sure I get to serve one way or another. Here's what I'd like to know (mostly pertaining to enlistment in the Army National Guard or Army Reserve):

    - I know that in your enlistment contract you must mention whether you were ever involved in any prior military activity before you enlist, including enrollment in ROTC (for any branch). Are disenrolled, uncontracted cadets required to mention their enrollment, or does it not count because they were uncontracted? Also, does it factor in negatively to mention that you were involved, or is it a promotion thing? Or neither?

    - A recruit who enlists with a 4-year Bachelor's Degree is given automatic promotion to E-4, Specialist, in a reserve/guard unit if that unit has a slot available for another E-4, correct? Please correct me if this is untrue.

    - For the National Guard, they list cash bonuses under specific MOS's for prospective recruits. Are these jobs that are severely undermanned? Are there any specific MOS's that are generally undermanned year after year? And is it easier to get an available AIT slot for these deficient MOS's (meaning, are there more training slots available)?

    - I heard split-option is only available to high school students who are doing the 17-year-old enlistment deal. Is this true? Current college students cannot do split-option? Split-option would be nice, but if it really is a hassle, I may just take a semester off to finish Basic/AIT since it seems my degree is going to take more than 4 years anyway.

    - Just out of curiosity, does the Army still offer the quick-ship option?

    Sorry for the massive wall of text, and thank you in advance; I do appreciate the help.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    And the cuts begin.

    I can't answer any of those questions, but I would suggest you talk to your CC right away.

    If 20% are being cut, you will not be the only one thinking of their options. The question you need to have answered first is with the new budget cuts, will the Army be taking on more enlisted?

    Understand the way the AD world works is there is a ratio between Officer to Enlisted. Than a ratio within the Enlisted for their ranks. If E-4s are bulging at the seams, compared to E-9 and E-2's they are not going to bring more in.

    If the Army cuts officers, and wants a 20% Officer to 80% Enlisted, just throwing numbers as an example. It will trickle down to the Enlisted regarding recruitment.

    Right now it could be they have a 25% Officer and 75% Enlisted, so it could work to your advantage. However, if they have a 20% and are cutting anyway that may signal the Enlisted will not be taking on more.

    Just like in the ROTC system, they have manpower needs and plans. The reason they are cutting can be because the super committee failed to succeed and the DOD must now cut an additional 650 Billion over the next 10 yrs, on top of the planned 450 BN, or they may be cutting because that yr group for officers was too large in the 1st place.

    Talk to your CC. He will have more insight into this than any of us, because none of us are in the loop when it comes to how this budget cut will impact the entire personnel of the AD world.
     
  3. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    OK...check it out. Army ROTC battalions have a commission mission and a contract mission. The goal is to have enough cadet contracted by about the time they are MS II/IIIs to get the commission mission number across the finish line. There is usually some attrition from contract to commission. If you are in a Battalion that has their contract mission met, they will not be looking to add anymore contracts. If you aren't contracted you are doing the right thing by looking at enlisted options if you want to serve. Your first steps should be to continue to do what is asked of you, and make it known that you want to be an officer. You should also look at SMP. Battalions will probably start to get a Guard/Reserve mission in the future, and if you are willing to accept a Guard/Reserve commission you may move to the head of the class and get that contract. The sky isn't falling yet.
     
  4. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    True Dat!
    The Sky never falls. You want advice- worry about what you can control- your performance. Do your best- the rest will be what it will be and all of the blather about what happened in the past, what they may do in the future etc... is just people gassing. Things will be what they will be and you won't change them by sweating about them. In the 1970s after Vietnam- the Army shrank by 50% in about a year- but you know what - THERE WERE STILL A LOT of new officers coming on active duty. In the 1990's the Army shrank by 35% - but again THERE were still a lot of new officers who get commissioned every year. The sky doesn't fall, and if you are the kind of person they are looking for- they will still want you. So do your best and don't make it easy for people when they are being selective to pass you up.
     
  5. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I'm curious.

    I've read a couple posts now that have mentioned battalions cutting non-contracted cadets. What's unclear to me is they are saying the battalions are going to cut MS1's and MS2's if they do not contract soon. Unless these cadets are 4 or 3 year scholarship cadets or SMP cadets that contract sophomore year, how does a MS1 or MS2 contract before their junior year. I would think that would be tough for a walk on cadet, telling him/her they have to contract to stay in the program when there is actually no way for them to contract until their junior year, am I missing something here.

    Thanks for the explanation Clarkson regarding class size. I would imagine this is not that uncommon. I have heard from the cadet of a family friend that they are at record levels in their MS1 class, they have been told they have more cadets then needed to meet their mission, I would expect they will be cutting as well, it seems only natural rather then an immediate reaction to any budget issue, though I would imagine that will happen soon enough.
     
  6. bsherman92

    bsherman92 Member

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    Thanks for the advice everyone. It seems there aren't many people on these boards who can address the enlistment questions, so I'll hold those for my MSII instructor and recruiter. I appreciate the advice; I am going to wait this out until the end of the semester to see what the result will be. We only have about 3 or so weeks of ROTC left anyway.

    Jcleppe,
    For a while, I was confused about the contracting situation too. From what I've read on these forums, it's not possible to contract until you have SOME form of military experience (Basic + AIT, MSL I, MSL II), or another theory: that you flat-out cannot contract until the end of your sophomore year. But when I started ROTC this semester, I was surprised to see MSI's and II's getting contracted as soon as they passed the APFT. I was surprised and confused, but I just assumed that contracting is handled differently by battalions across the country. For Ram Battalion, from what I've seen, the criteria so far has been to pass the APFT, the CWST, and to have satisfactory attendance to labs, class, and PT. We hold contracting ceremonies every which way whenever the opportunity arises: We did it before a Friday MS class once, right after freshman orientation, during a Friday MS lab, and recently, at the conclusion of a FTX. Not sure how it's handled in other battalions, but I hope this has cleared it up a bit.
     
  7. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Cadets can contract before junior year is they are SMP or on scholarship. We try to contract our cadets at high vis events.
     
  8. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Ram Battalion? I thought that rang a bell. I googled and sure enough it is Fordham, which my daughter was considering at one point in the application process last year.

    I saw on the Ram Battalion website that there at 49 affilate schools. Holy Scholy, that is one HUGE affilate program. No use me trying to guess which school you're at, I have a 98% chance of being wrong!

    Anyway, back to your actually serious situation, since you've already spoken with your own Cadet chain of command and Cadre, I'd PM Marist College, who posts quite often on this Board. I'm sure he can help educate you to your options since he's knee-deep in it for his own campus in the Ram Battalion.
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Actually that just made it more confusing. Maybe Clarkson can clear it up a bit.

    Of course I can only speak for my son's battalion, I have one MS4 and one MS1 at the same school. At the beginning of the year the battalion had a contracting ceremony, they contracted one MS1, three MS2's (all SMP) and three MS3's (non SMP or scholarship, cadets accepted to the Advanced Course and 3 year scholarship cadets) The MS1 was a 4 year scholarship cadet. Two 4 year scholarship cadets did not pass the APFT and could not contract, they would be able to contract once they passed the APFT, one dropped out and one has yet to pass and is being re-evaluated for his scholarship. Even if a cadet has been to BCT and AIT they could not contract until their sophomore year. It seems odd that they would be contracting freshman cadets that were not 4 year scholarship, Green to Gold or GRFD scholarship. There must be more to it then I am assuming.

    At my son's school there are a few MS1's and MS2's that are taking the classes for a leadership credit with really no intention of contracting. These students take the classes their freshman and sophomore years and do not continue on to the Advanced Course by choice, some only take the class and do not take the Lab or PT. The basic course at my son's school are all seperate credits and are graded classes that any student can take, of course the Advanced Course is for contracted cadets only.

    Just saw Clarkson's post, thanks.
     

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