Best AROTC Battalion in the Country?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by dunninla, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    On another thread the topic of "what is the best Battalion?" came up, and I thought it deserved its own thread.

    One way of answering that question, among many ways, is to list the #1 Cadet, and Battalion they come from, in each of the 14 LDAC Sessions held in Summer, 2011. The LDAC had a facebook page that listed, for Sessions #3 -14 (#1 and #2 seem to be missing) the #1 Cadet in a Regiment, #2 Cadet in a Regiment, #1 Cadet in Company A, #1 Cadet in Company B, Best Innovator, and finally #1 Cadet in each of the Platoons.

    I'm showing here the #1 Cadet, and #2 Cadet, for Regiments #3 - #14.

    Order // Cadet Name // R/C/P // School Name
    #1 R // John Burris // 3/A/2 // Auburn University at Montgomery
    #1 R // Noah Russell // 4/A/4 // University of South Florida
    #1 R // Marcos Gutierrez // 5/B/4 // Austin Peay State University
    #1 R // Megan Vandehey // 6/A/1 // The John Hopkins University
    #1 R // John Bergman // 7/A/4 // University of Kansas
    #1 R // Daniel Oesterheld // 8/A/4 // Northeastern University
    #1 R // Edward Echohawk // 9/A/1 // Oklahoma State University
    #1 R // Douglas Palmer // 10/A/2 // University of Connecticut
    #1 R // Cole Herring // 11/B/5 // University of Minnesota – Twin Cities
    #1 R // Dalton Fuss // 12/A/3 // Texas A&M University
    #1 R // Matthew Upshaw // 13/A/3 // North Georgia College & State University
    #1 R // Jennifer Cigler // 14/A/2 // Pacific Lutheran University
    #2 R // Kristen Moores // 3/B/2 // University of Virginia
    #2 R // Carl Springfels // 4/B/2 // Florida Southern College
    #2 R // Ryan Silver // 5/A/5 // University of Illinois at Chicago
    #2 R // Amberly Glitz // 6/B/2 // Providence College
    #2 R // Katherine Register // 7/B/1 // North Georgia College*& State University
    #2 R // John McRae // 8/B/2 // Oregon State University
    #2 R // Christopher Kaiser // 9/B/1 // University of Toledo
    #2 R // James Greene // 10/B/4 // Wheaton College
    #2 R // Keegan Wisehart // 11/A/5 // Purdue University
    #2 R // Stefan Gazda // 12/B/4 // Southern Illinois University – Edwardsville
    #2 R // Kevin Bubolz // 13/A/2 // Marquette University
    #2 R // Zachary Betts // 14/B/3 // University of Nevada – Reno

    Do you see any pattern in which schools are sending the #1 or #2 Cadet ranked at LDAC for each Session? I don't. In fact, none of the 7 schools listed on my daughter's Applicaiton in 2011 had any of these schools listed. The school she ended up choosing had the PMS of the Year in 2010, but that school isn't listed here either.

    Do you notice that none of the US News and World Report ranked schools, #1-#30, are listed here except for Johns Hopkins?

    Do you notice that just two of the SMCs are listed here? Where is the Citadel? VMI, Norwich, VaTech? If the regimental lifestyle of the SMCs is better than non-SMC colleges, were are the results? Those Battalions are huge in number and one might expect to see more of those names on that list. (edited)

    Next, I decided to take the same published cadet awards, and divide by School/Battalion that trained them. These are the schools that had at least 3 cadets receive an award for #1 Regiment, #2 Regiment, #1 Company, #1 Platoon, or Best Innovator award.

    Name of School/Battalion // # of Awards (total)
    1st Brigade -- North Georgia College & State Univ // 10
    8th Brigade -- Gonzaga University // 5
    4th Brigade -- Campbell University // 4
    6th Brigade -- University of South Florida // 4
    4th Brigade -- Appalachian State University // 3
    5th Brigade -- Cameron University // 3
    6th Brigade -- Georgia Southern University // 3
    6th Brigade -- Northwestern State University // 3
    1st Brigade -- Texas A&M University // 3
    5th Brigade -- University of Texas at El Paso // 3

    Now here, two of the SMC's do show up in the top ten, so maybe there's something to it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  2. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Thanks for the analysis, dunninla. One question: how large are the contingents sent to LDAC by the various SMC's? (I realize they don't all go at the same time)
     
  3. Melitzank

    Melitzank Member

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    dunninla, I see you are absolutely right--the SMCs barely register on that list, but just want to point out for those who see it that Texas A&M is on that first list. I don`t mean that in terms of saying that proves SMCs are better because that`s only one more SMC, but it is on there, just want to point that out. #9, bolded it.

    V/R
    97133M
     
  4. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    ^ thanks, fixed that.
     
  5. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Which is the, Best ROTC Battalion in the Country?

    This would be my answer to that often asked question.

    The best ROTC Battalion is the one that is attached to a University that you truely want to attend, it's in a town you feel comfortable living for four years. The best Battalion is part of the whole package where you are inspired to learn and do well.

    If you are happy at the college you attend, you major in a field you enjoy and have the dedication to achieve to the best of your ability, you will have selected the best battalion.

    You get out of ROTC what you put into it, if you finish in the top 10%, does it really matter if your battalion is ranked number 1 in the country.
     
  6. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Nothing against North Georgia College & State Univ., great school and program, just keep in mind they have something like 800-900 cadets (Its the ONLY - ALL Army SMC)
    And Gonzaga has 200-250 cadets, compared with the smaller Units, The large units should be producing more high performers.
     
  7. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    That is Absolutely stone cold reality Jcleppe:thumb:. This thread is based on a silly premise. If you are going to a college because of the ROTC unit then you are bluntly- making an error and if you are spending more time thinking about the ROTC unit then about what you will be majoring in, then you get a no-go at this station. ROTC is not your major. The chances of you being a career soldier ANYWHERE you go are fairly small- both from the standpoint of Army cutbacks that will limit the number of Lts going on and staying on active duty and then even more- due to the sheer reality of Army life. I can't begin to describe the numbers and % of guys who I knew over the years who were gungho to be career soldiers, and who after 3 years were counting the number of days until they were out on civilian street. The chances of being a productive, employed, well educated college graduate are what you need to be focusing on. Those kids who went to LDAC and came away as number one, probably would have been number one if they went to Whattsamatta U or USMA or cross town anywhere else. They were self motivated and self driven. Those kids will be successful anywhere and they didn't learn that from Maj Slipinstuff in MS302.
    What's the "Best ROTC unit"? Well ultimately-by a fairly reasonable criteria- it's the one that gives you the best chance of being a soldier. If you want a guarantee that you will be an active duty Army officer- then go to an SMC, because that is the only non-Academy source that can give you one. BUT NEWSFLASH- if that's the only reason you are going to one, then I recommend that you don't, because a big % of the kids going to SMCs will decide while there that they don't want to be soldiers for a career, and frankly if you don't want to be at one of those schools for their own merits- (certainly this is true of VMI and I'm pretty sure the Citadel), then you will hate it. You go to VMI ( or the rest of them) because you want to prove that you can overcome some huge physical, emotional, academic and time management challenges, and because you want the sense of honor and comraderie that comes with succeeding there. The commission comes along with that package or not- your decision.
    So Jcleppe is exactly right.- What is the best ROTC unit? It's the one that complements the best university for you. Want to play high level hockey in college and do ROTC? Then go to the college that has an intense hockey program and has an ROTC unit on campus. Interested in being an Environmental or Mechanical or Electrical or Civil Engineer? Then find the school that you can afford, that has a great engineering program, and has an ROTC unit on campus. Want a strong Christian environment? Then go to a Christian college that offers ROTC on campus. Want an intense, small college experience that has 175 years of commissioning large numbers of Regular and Reserve Army Officers and that will challenge you in every aspect of your daily existence? Then go to a small SMC etc...etc... The best ROTC program is where you are best served in all aspects of your college life.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  8. CoachBart

    CoachBart Member

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    Great Reply

    Great Reply!
     
  9. khergan

    khergan Member

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    I really have to agree with the conclusions drawn thus far. The thing is, while there are a sprinkling of people in the top 10% and so forth from SMCs like VMI and A&M, they also represent an equal proportion of the people who are at the absolute bottom of the OML this year.

    At the end of the day, it's individual dedication that matters and how well you sync with the program you belong to. It's definitely better to find an environment that works for you, which will be a combination of the ROTC style as well as the individual culture in your college. If you're a happy, hard-working student, it's likely you'll do well.

    That's the nice thing about ROTC - it's all about each cadet's own performance, and the college is more of a way to get the experience you're looking for. And again, as others have said above me, ROTC experiences will vastly differ from program to program. A small program with 20-30 cadets and a couple cadre will be a vastly different experience than an SMC with hundreds of cadets and a militaristic lifestyle. I would just say don't rule one thing out over the other because everybody's individual preferences will be different.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I think that is also why many posters will say when the candidate does the school visit, take the time and visit the det. too. Every unit has its' own personality like the college has their own feel. Don't assume that they both have the same feeling from a personal position.

    Just a quick question from my desire to be informed, are these colleges all the same size regarding the amount of cadets? For example UMDCP AFROTC det 330 won best AFROTC det in the nation for large units. UMDCP is a large school, and has a large det., but they wouldn't put them up against a small unit. I can't believe Appalachian State is the same size as any SMC.

    This brings it back to the candidate, for some they don't want to be a number at a large university, but would prefer a small college. For some they may live in an area that doesn't have an SMC 8 hrs by car away, i.e. cadets on the list.

    The student at U of Minn might have said all of the SMCs are too far. The Pacific Lutheran cadet may want a small college experience. They may not have made that list if they hated their college.

    Just another question for informative purposes. I am assuming there are 8 Brigades. The list 1, 4,5,6 and 8...can anyone tell me where 2,3 and 7 are located. Again, I am not familiar so it could be there is no 2,3 or 7. Just wondering why they aren't appearing on a whole.
     
  11. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Wait, what? Look, you spend at least 10 hours per week in ROTC class, PT and Lab. YOu only spend about 50 hours per week (not counting weekends) doing everything else at the University. Oh... I see what you mean. :)

    One of the reasons I posted this question is that it seems to come up a lot embedded into other threads. Incidentally Jcleppe, your opinion is shared by two PMS' I personally spoke with 18 months ago when my DD was choosing which of three schools to apply her scholarship to. They were very clear that they want cadets who like the school they're at even without ROTC ... they find that those cadets do best in ROTC on their campus and on the OML.
     
  12. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    Pima - not sure about the others, but 7th Brigade consists of Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio and Michigan.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That's interesting because I would have thought schools like Notre Dame, Purdue and UMich would have than made the list.
     
  14. MissIndependence

    MissIndependence Member

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    List of the 8 brigades

    Pima,
    Not sure if this has changed or is up todate but here is a list of the areas for each of the 8 brigades.



    Map of the Army ROTC Brigades
    ROTC is composed of eight brigades which, in turn command 272 ROTC units, referred to as battalions (though these units are typically much smaller than regular army battalions.) The brigades command ROTC units throughout different regions of the country.

    1st Reserve Officers' Training Corps Brigade (Responsible for military colleges, i.e., Norwich, VMI, Citadel, Texas A&M)
    2nd Reserve Officers' Training Corps Brigade (CT, MA, ME, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT, Germany, Italy)
    3rd Reserve Officers' Training Corps Brigade (IA, IL, KS, MN, MO, ND, NE, SD, WI)
    4th Reserve Officers' Training Corps Brigade (DC, DE, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV)
    5th Reserve Officers' Training Corps Brigade (AR, AZ, CO, NM, OK, TX, UT, WY)
    6th Reserve Officers' Training Corps Brigade (AL, FL, GA, LA, MS, PR, VI)
    7th Reserve Officers' Training Corps Brigade (IN, KY, MI, OH, TN)
    8th Reserve Officers' Training Corps Brigade (AK, AS, CA, GU, HI, ID, MP, MT, NV, OR, WA, Korea, Japan)
     
  15. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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  16. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Well, thkse Union States never have produced very good soldiers :rocket: P.S. where is the little smiley for FLAK JACKET which I will need to deploy now?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  17. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Ouch! These are (and were at one time) fighting words! Flak Jacket indeed! :zip:
     
  18. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    +10
     
  19. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Thank goodness we're from The Wild West.
     
  20. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Yep, Sherman, Grant, Marshall, Eisenhower, Patton... they never amounted to much - especially compared to Pillow and Floyd :yllol:
     

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