Best Majors at USAFA

DUH! PHYSICS.

Fencersmother, you say, "Physics, duh" and my DD would agree with you. She loves physics, but is being dissuaded by many people, including her father, who retort that there are no future jobs in physics unless you have a PHD and want to be a college professor. She is steering toward aeronautical/astronautical engineering because of such retorts. I say, she should go with what she loves, and she is not afraid of hard work. She is extremely bright and is pulling a straight A in honors physics this year as well as last year. What kind of jobs are available for physics majors graduating from the AFA? She has no interest in being a pilot, but she loves the AF; would love to be a physicist eventually. We are just not familiar enough about what type of job she would end up with in the AF with that type of degree. Any comments would be helpful.
 
My best friend did his masters in Ops Research (undergrad at USNA in math). He has had more job offers than he knows what to do with. Oh and he won't be out of the Navy for 18 more months.

Wow. Where did he get Ops Research Masters? Highly regarded institution? How hard was it for him to do that while still serving in the Navy?
 
Grizz, I have twin sons who are both USAFA grads. Sorry, I figured most people knew that here.

Oh okay, got it. What AFSC did he serve? Just wondering if someone with a management degree who goes pilot will have as many job opportunities as someone with the same degree who goes acquisition officer, for example. Do companies care about your AFSC?
 
Do companies care about your AFSC?

Depends. I know lame answer but its true. If you're going to work for a company that makes planes then I think being a pilot might help. If you're going to a company that makes doughnuts not so much, other than showing that you can handle extremely stressful situations.
 
Fencersmother, you say, "Physics, duh" and my DD would agree with you. She loves physics, but is being dissuaded by many people, including her father, who retort that there are no future jobs in physics unless you have a PHD and want to be a college professor. She is steering toward aeronautical/astronautical engineering because of such retorts. I say, she should go with what she loves, and she is not afraid of hard work. She is extremely bright and is pulling a straight A in honors physics this year as well as last year. What kind of jobs are available for physics majors graduating from the AFA? She has no interest in being a pilot, but she loves the AF; would love to be a physicist eventually. We are just not familiar enough about what type of job she would end up with in the AF with that type of degree. Any comments would be helpful.
My DD is majoring in physics. If she could, she'd go theoretical, but applied physics is the only track offered. She knows it will be tough, but so far she's excelling in honors physics. I agree - your daughter should go with what she loves. Interestingly, no one has tried to talk DD out of it other than to say "your GPA will suffer." I told her, if you love it, you'll do well (so far, so good!)
 
My DD is majoring in physics. If she could, she'd go theoretical, but applied physics is the only track offered. She knows it will be tough, but so far she's excelling in honors physics. I agree - your daughter should go with what she loves. Interestingly, no one has tried to talk DD out of it other than to say "your GPA will suffer." I told her, if you love it, you'll do well (so far, so good!)

So your DD is taking applied physics at the AFA? Honors? Do they have regular and honors at the academy? Sorry, if I sound ignorant, but I did not know they offered both. Does she have any idea what kind of job she will be eligible for after she graduates? Or, is she going to be a pilot? Thanks for your patience with my questions. :rolleyes:
 
In addition to whether or not you want to fly, consider whether you are a "Five and Dive" kind of graduate or are you planning on a career in the Air Force? My DS is a Mechanical Engineering major, with a "concentration" in robotics. LOTS of people have told him that engineers can't get rank very easily in the AF, so if you want to stay in for life, give serious consideration to promotions.
 
A Physics major is qualified for 61D1 - Physicist/Nuclear Engineer, along with all the other non-major-specific AFSCs (pilot, security forces, force support, etc.)

Here are some reported numbers for graduates selected for 61D1
2010 - 6
2013 - (I know this one was released, still looking for it)
2014 - 3

There are honors versions of the core physics courses at the Academy. Following those there may be scholars versions of physics classes offered for students in the scholars program (you can opt in with a GPA above 3.5). The honors designation doesn't really mean anything, but cadets who complete all the scholars program requirements are distinguished on their degree/transcript.
 
In addition to whether or not you want to fly, consider whether you are a "Five and Dive" kind of graduate or are you planning on a career in the Air Force? My DS is a Mechanical Engineering major, with a "concentration" in robotics. LOTS of people have told him that engineers can't get rank very easily in the AF, so if you want to stay in for life, give serious consideration to promotions.

It is true that engineers do not reach high ranks. At some point they can be re-classed into 63 - Acquisitions.
 
Wow! That is good to know. So, I am assuming (I know, loaded word :) that the pilots are the ones who make the rank because, we ARE talking Air Force here, but a little disappointing that engineers are in that situation. And, AFrpaso, it looks like not many have the opportunity to work in their field with a physics degree; it would be nice to know how many actually graduated with the degree and were placed elsewhere. So many decisions to make and hard to do without much knowledge on the subject. If one majors in physics and does not become a pilot and is not selected for physicist/nuclear engineer, then what jobs are they offered? Again, I am not familiar with any of the AFSC jobs....still learning all the Air Force lingo, so I am willing to be educated. If anyone knows of a post that explains the jobs offered to AFA graduates, I would appreciate it.
 
I should be able to find out how many seniors are graduating with a Physics degree this year, I can look tomorrow.

As for jobs offered to graduates (A quick google search of 'AFSC' - 'job title' should give you more info):

AFSC - Skill Description
13C - Special Tactics
13D - Combat Rescue
13L - Career AirLiasonOfficer
13M - Airfield Operations
13N - Missile Ops
13S - Space Ops
14N - Intelligence
15W - Weather
17D - Cyber Comm-Info Ops
21A - Aircraft Maint
21M - Munitions/Missile Maint
21R - Logistics Readiness
31P - Security Forces
32EXA - Civil Engr-Architect
32EXC - Civil Engr-Civil
32EXE - Civil Engr-Electrical
32EXF - Civil Engr-Mechanical
32EXG - Civil Engr-General
32EXJ - Civil Engr-Environmental
35P - Public Affairs
38P - Force Support/Personnel
61A - Scientist-Analyst
61B - Scientist-BehavioralScientist
61C - Scientist-Chemist
61D - Scientist-Physicist
62EXA - Developmental Engr-Aero
62EXB - Developmental Engr-Astro
62EXC - Developmental Engr-Comp
62EXE - Developmental Engr-Elec
62EXG - Developmental Engr-General
62EXH - Developmental Engr-Mech
63A - Acquisition
64P - Contracting
65F - Financial Management
71S - Special Investigations


Jobs which do not require a specific major (However, some jobs do have a preferred major):
13M - Airfield Operations
13N - Missile Ops
13S - Space Ops
14N - Intelligence
17D - Cyber Comm-Info Ops
21A - Aircraft Maint
21M - Munitions/Missile Maint
21R - Logistics Readiness
31P - Security Forces
35P - Public Affairs
38P - Force Support/Personnel
63A - Acquisition
64P - Contracting
 
I only said to avoid chemistry because it is a notoriously hard field. A good chemistry student in high school will still face a lot of difficulties there. There aren't a great number of civilian jobs for chemistry majors either, unless you either go to medical school or become a professor. The statement that there are a plethora of jobs waiting as a undergrad for chemistry is a false statement. This goes for any hard science (biology, physics, etc.). They would have to go to graduate school to have a real chance at finding any career opportunity. Here is an article which talks about how bleak job prospects are for chemists with just a bachelors degree: http://cen.acs.org/articles/91/i4/New-Bachelor-Level-Chemists-Face.html

Here is a different article which notes that the job market for chemistry majors with just a bachelors degree face a "so-so" job market at BEST. http://blogs.mprnews.org/oncampus/2012/03/so-is-chemistry-a-marketable-degree-or-not/

Yes, STEM degree's are in demand, but only particularly if you (a) have connections (b) have a masters or higher. The purpose for going to college, other than getting a better education, is to network with people. Military academies take this necessity away for you by already doing the networking part and giving you a job for at least 5 years post graduation. You're also given opportunities for research, internships, etc. in civilian colleges to actually make yourself (somewhat) marketable. Graduating with a degree from any military academy doesn't do this. The only STEM degrees which are marketable immedieatly after graduation without most of the aforementioned would be engineering ones (as far as I know). Same thing if you major in math, what can you do with that but besides becoming a math teacher? I don't hate STEM majors, but its important to note that they generally face as much difficulties as a liberal arts major unless they go on to further education.
 
My sons' two good friends, both Physics grads, both work as Physics scientists, after going for the masters at AFIT. THey love what they do.

My Physics grad was given a choice of concentration of Optical (lasers) or Nuclear (!) Physics and chose the latter.

Both he and his bro plan to be in for 20, but Twin B's wife I believe is planning a "five and dive."
 
I should be able to find out how many seniors are graduating with a Physics degree this year, I can look tomorrow.

As for jobs offered to graduates (A quick google search of 'AFSC' - 'job title' should give you more info):

AFSC - Skill Description
13C - Special Tactics
13D - Combat Rescue
13L - Career AirLiasonOfficer
13M - Airfield Operations
13N - Missile Ops
13S - Space Ops
14N - Intelligence
15W - Weather
17D - Cyber Comm-Info Ops
21A - Aircraft Maint
21M - Munitions/Missile Maint
21R - Logistics Readiness
31P - Security Forces
32EXA - Civil Engr-Architect
32EXC - Civil Engr-Civil
32EXE - Civil Engr-Electrical
32EXF - Civil Engr-Mechanical
32EXG - Civil Engr-General
32EXJ - Civil Engr-Environmental
35P - Public Affairs
38P - Force Support/Personnel
61A - Scientist-Analyst
61B - Scientist-BehavioralScientist
61C - Scientist-Chemist
61D - Scientist-Physicist
62EXA - Developmental Engr-Aero
62EXB - Developmental Engr-Astro
62EXC - Developmental Engr-Comp
62EXE - Developmental Engr-Elec
62EXG - Developmental Engr-General
62EXH - Developmental Engr-Mech
63A - Acquisition
64P - Contracting
65F - Financial Management
71S - Special Investigations


Jobs which do not require a specific major (However, some jobs do have a preferred major):
13M - Airfield Operations
13N - Missile Ops
13S - Space Ops
14N - Intelligence
17D - Cyber Comm-Info Ops
21A - Aircraft Maint
21M - Munitions/Missile Maint
21R - Logistics Readiness
31P - Security Forces
35P - Public Affairs
38P - Force Support/Personnel
63A - Acquisition
64P - Contracting

Thank you. I will look for your answer tomorrow. I have much research to do and you gave me a great place to start. My DD and I will be compiling some questions to ask at the SA seminar we are attending here this Saturday.
 
My sons' two good friends, both Physics grads, both work as Physics scientists, after going for the masters at AFIT. THey love what they do.

My Physics grad was given a choice of concentration of Optical (lasers) or Nuclear (!) Physics and chose the latter.

Both he and his bro plan to be in for 20, but Twin B's wife I believe is planning a "five and dive."

AFIT? How long after graduation were they able to attend graduate school?
 
Does anyone have insight on Systems Engineering? My DS is still trying to decide on a major. He recently mentioned that he is considering a Systems Engineer Major with a focus on Aeronautics. For years his goal was Civil Engineering but he seems to be rethinking things. I've heard very little of this Engineering degree.
 
I have thought of another question. If AF engineers do not make rank, what alternatives are there if you are not planning on being a pilot and you would like to be promoted?
Immediately, after sixty days.

Thanks for the response, but I still do not know what AFIT is. Air Force Institute of Technology? Just a guess. How were they able to go directly to get a masters? How common is that?
 
They were chosen to go there, and there were several from their class who got assorted MS degrees immediately upon graduation. I do not believe it is "common" but obviously not too uncommon since I think I know of at least ten grads who went to AFIT or to Rand or other place upon graduation.

Yes, it is AFIT, at Wright-Pat in Dayton
 
Does anyone have insight on Systems Engineering? My DS is still trying to decide on a major. He recently mentioned that he is considering a Systems Engineer Major with a focus on Aeronautics. For years his goal was Civil Engineering but he seems to be rethinking things. I've heard very little of this Engineering degree.

First, it is important to understand that most of an officer's job is to manage projects and people. Even if you are a 62 - Developmental Engineer, it is unlikely for you to do any actual design. That isn't to say that assignments like that don't exist, just that they are few and far between and usually go to the top engineers. I recently spent a week in LAAFB at the Space and Missile Center, where I worked with the Aerospace Corporation ( a Federally Funded Research and Development Center) in order to create conceptual satellite designs. It was pretty awesome. We were handed a problem and used their design tools to come up with a viable solution. However, the program was simply for exposure to a process, not to give us a glimpse of what 62s really do. What is that you might ask? Well, to put it simply, the 62s pretty much acted as the middleman between the contractors who build the satellites and the civilians (at Aerospace) who are the real experts. In that particular situation it seemed like an Aero or Astro degree was only necessary to give an officer sufficient technical background to understand what these entities were reporting. They manage the relations between these two civilian entities and the acquisitions department of the Air Force. Granted, I only experienced a small snippet of the Developmental Engineering career field but what I saw was a bit disconcerting for me, someone who originally wanted to be a 62.

So that is some commentary on the 62 career field, as someone who pursued a degree in a very specific engineering discipline.

For a systems engineering major you are more interested in the integration of many different systems. So maybe you'll have electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, and aero or astro engineers on your team developing something. Your job as a systems engineer is to ensure the integration of the all those engineering disciplines into an effective team. What does that sound like? The answer is management. Only this time your technical background isn't as focused as say an astro engineer. For example, during the concept design phase of a satellite at the Aerospace Corp, many experts gather together and takes seats at various substations. There is one for power management, thermal controls, Attitude determination and control, communications, structure, propulsion etc., each with its own expert. Every substation is dependent on each other. Structures needs to know how much fuel is going to be brought along to account for necessary space and impact the structure size, that impacts how the control guys are going to deal with moving a particular satellite, which dictates how much power is required from solar arrays and where this power is going to dissipated, which in turns impacts the necessary thermal controls on the spacecraft. You can see just how complex designing a system can really get. That is why there are systems engineers in charge of aggregating and filtering all the relevant information routed to them by the various substation experts and forwarding that info to the other substations.

Where a USAFA Astro Engineering major will be qualified for 62E1B - Developmental Engineering Astronautics, a USAFA Systems Engineering major would be qualified for 62E1G - Developmental Engineering General.

Again, note that each job really boils down to project management. If you rate degrees on a scale of least technical to most technical and most management heavy to least management heavy then it might look like this:

Management < Systems Engineering < Astro Engineering (or other focus)

That's the quick and dirty of it. All of this is information I have gathered through my one research, interviews with officers, and experience on academic trips. Take it with a grain of salt. I am sure there are many out there who can tell it like it is from a much better vantage point.
 
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