Better no news than bad news?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by spacetrent, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. spacetrent

    spacetrent Member

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    I have yet to hear anything from the Academy, and I am becoming nervous. I knew that there was a big group of portal updates today but I was not among them :frown: I was wondering when the next round of portal updates is to be expected. I have heard that they update 7 days after the admission board meets and the last time they met was last Monday, does that mean that they only meet on Mondays?

    Also I was wondering how the admissions panel chooses the order of who they look at, basically wondering if they've looked at me and decided to wait or they haven't gotten to me yet.

    Sorry for the long post, I'm just really nervous about either my dream coming true or not.

    Thanks
     
  2. HeWantsTheBFE

    HeWantsTheBFE USAFA Class of 2017

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    I have a question to add on to this too (well, several):

    This "selection board" comes up a lot. Could someone like CC or Flieger83 elaborate a bit on it, how it works, when it meets. etc?

    Also, typically how long does it take for the board to make a decision, and then how long does it take that decision to reach the various levels of communication before it get to the candidate?
     
  3. afa

    afa Member

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    i believe for it to reach you portal-wise it hast to be by 7 days. so at the most 7 days. as far as your moc finding out and telling you i guess that depends

    i too would like to know when the board is supposed to next meet.
     
  4. Alpineskier

    Alpineskier Member

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    And when do TWEs usally come out? This wait is killing me :redface:
     
  5. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    WHEN the board meets is quite impossible to say. WHY? Because it changes each year based on the members of the board; their time frame; the academy's schedule; etc... For instance: Up until a couple years ago; prior to the cutbacks; the board STARTED MEETING, the 2nd-3rd week of September. YES, I said SEPTEMBER. That's why back then, there was actually an advantage to finishing up your application as early as possible.

    The board would score your application, then your app was put to the side. Each Monday, the board would meet and score the next pile of COMPLETED applications. IF a previously scored application had any changes to it, like updated ACT/SAT/etc.... it too would get rescored. This would continue on until through February. Then; like now; they would start offering appointments. The difference with a couple years ago, is that about 10% of the applicants were offered either an LOA or an outright appointment in the October/November time frame if they were part of the "No Brainer" club. Without LOA's, "Except for a very few athletes", there are really no early appointments or LOA's, so having the board meet in the fall isn't as important.

    That's not to say however that your academy counselor doesn't have the ability to notice a "No Brainer". While the board isn't necessarily meeting, if the computer and your counselor notice you have one of those applications that puts you in the top 1-2% and they know you'll be accepted to ANY SCHOOL you apply to; they will look at it early. That's why some appointments were/are given out a couple of months ago.

    But is there a definitive date and procedure? No, not really. There was a NORM, but that changed when the economy turned; too many started ACCEPTING the appointments; LESS were quitting; and TOO MANY was becoming commissioned. Since then, it's now:

    1. Offer a PERCENTAGE of the appointments.
    2. Give them a deadline to accept or auto-reject them
    3. Recalculate and send out the next batch of appointment offers
    4. Wait for them to accept or decline
    5. Repeat and mix..... Serve over ice....
     
  6. HeWantsTheBFE

    HeWantsTheBFE USAFA Class of 2017

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    OK. So from what i've gathered:

    1) things have changed and you now either dont know how it works, or are unable to tell us.
    2) your point #1 raises the question: a % of appointments PER week? Or just in a given time frame?
    3) How much of a deadline (EG: your #2)
    4) I like my icy beverages shaken, not stirred.


    Also, do you know how long it takes for a decision to filter down to a candidate? Or a general time frame?
     
  7. skydivingkittens

    skydivingkittens NWP '12

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    My friend sent me some information that he received from his ALO:

    "Today USAFA announced that they are currently sending out appointment notifications. Next, week they will send out "non-select" letters. If you don't receive an appointment this week but also do not receive a non-select letter next week, you are still under consideration for and appointment."
     
  8. Nathan13

    Nathan13 New Member

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    That at least gives me something to look for because this waiting and not having a deadline date is killing me. At least if you receive a letter next week you will know how to precede.
     
  9. Bourdeau

    Bourdeau Member

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    Best possibility for me as an Airman if I get a letter next week is Prep School, oh well, if that falls out, looks like I start applying for ROTC route. :beer1:
     
  10. Insider

    Insider Member

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    It is very unlikely that any non-select letters will be sent before April. That could change, of course, but I very much doubt it.

    Insider
     
  11. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    It's not a matter of knowing or not. First off; you are way beyond the "Board Meeting". You assume that because most appointments aren't given out until March-April, that that is the time frame when the board meets. The only main difference between now and years past, is that they weren't giving out early appointments and LOA's except for a few athletes that they need to compete for against National Signing day and other recruiting dates. "There's NCAA rules that state when and how often schools can contact athletes, so when these schools are going after athletes that the academies are also interested in, the academies will give some LOA's and appointments early to catch those applicants.

    But when did the board meet? It depends how many applications were 100% complete. I can promise you that the board isn't really meeting any longer. There's no need to. The board doesn't give out appointments. They SCORE the applicants. Then, the scores are stacked and racked. There may be some meeting still going on to adjust scores because of updated ACT/SAT or similar last minute additions to your application; but your application has already been scored.

    So again; you're asking for specific dates, and you're not going to get them. The board does usually only meet on Mondays, but depending on how many individuals and when they completed their applications, the board could have met back in October for yours. In other words, once YOUR APPLICATION is scored by the board; unless something changes on it, the board isn't going to look at your application again. What the board is doing now is verifying acceptances and those turning it down. THEN, the academy will send out another batch of appointments. They will give 2 or so weeks for people to accept or turn it down. Then, they will send more out.

    This is the only real difference between now and the past. In the past, they sent out 10-15% of appointments before Christmas; another 10-15% ROLLING through February. Then the bulk 70-80% in March and April. They knew a percentage would turn it down and it was OK if they accepted 1200, 1250, 1280, 1310, etc.... But NOW; because there are TOO MANY CADETS and TOO MANY COMMISSIONED OFFICERS, they have to get the academy class down and reduce those being commissioned. So, they are being exact about their offers. They will basically offer 3-4 times. They'll wait for those to accept and turn down each time before sending out the next group. But it's not like the board is reviewing your records/application. That's over with. If you finished your app in November, there's a good chance that the board reviewed your app within a couple of weeks. And if you didn't add anything to it, they never looked at it again. Now; it's simply seeing who's next on the list and seeing if they'll accept or not.
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Another bit of FYI: (Because too many people really want to believe that the appointment process is so easy).

    Half of the class is made up from MOC Slates. In other words, Senator "X" presents 10 names, and the academy MUST TAKE 1 of those 10. Whether it's a principal, ranked, or competitive slate, the academy is going to be giving an appointment for each of those slates. They have no choice. It's THE LAW!!! They don't HAVE to give out the presidential or other military slates; but they MUST give out the MOC slots. Once the MOC slots are done, they'll look at their military slots like presidential, ROTC, Prep-School, Prior-Enlisted, etc... Then, they'll take all those MOC nominees who didn't WIN the lottery, and they'll put them in the national pool. Scores are already done. The computer simply ranks you by score. If at this time, there's say around 300 appointments they need to fill, the academy will offer about 150. Wait for the individuals to accept or deny, then offer the next batch.

    Mind you, they will be sending out the MOC appointees too; but those are already accounted for. Of course, if some of them turn it down, the academy gets complicated in filling. Sometimes from the same slate, sometimes they leave the slot vacant and fill the class from the national pool. It gets really complicated. But let me say again; what the Board is doing NOW, is not what they were doing when they were scoring your applications. That's over with. Your application was scored a while ago.
     
  13. Sunshine92

    Sunshine92 Member

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    ALO

    My son's ALO also said he recd a notification from usafa that NON SELECT letters would go out mid next week and to advise anyone not receiving one of those letters that they are still being considered for an appointment and that all appointments have NOT been given out yet from USAFA. So keep the faith and hope not to get a thin letter.
     
  14. WAM

    WAM Member

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    will non-select letters/news be available on-line?

    Will portals be updated after TWE letters are sent? Not being in the US, even DPO/APO snail-mail takes from 2-6 weeks to get to us.
     
  15. HeWantsTheBFE

    HeWantsTheBFE USAFA Class of 2017

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    The implication of that being, the longer you wait, the less likely you are to get appointed? This is REALLY good information, stuff I just couldn't find elsewhere. But again, I don't particularly like all of the implications.
     
  16. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    You're not alone. There's a lot of people who want the process to be clear cut. They want a magical list that says: "Accomplish all these things and score above "X" points, and you get an appointment". Sorry, it isn't that way.

    An individual in Florida can receive an appointment with a weighted composite score of hypothetically 620. YET, an individual at the exact same time in Ohio can be turned down for an appointment, and they have a composite score of 650. Main reason is: The 2 individuals have DIFFERENT competitors that they are competing against. Now; once they all get into the national pool, they are all competing against each other, and the 650 will beat out the 620.

    The problem is, the appointment process is dictated by Federal Law. "United States Code Title 10". (Minute details are locally determined by the academy). Laws can be quite complicated. Yet, many people want it explained simple and brief on a forum. Even for a long winded poster like myself, that is impossible.

    Obviously, you and others want it black and white. You want a list of accomplishments; the scoring used for each accomplishment; minimum/cutoff score to receive an appointment; guaranteed date to notify applicants; etc... Unfortunately, NONE of that is possible. WHY??? Because the scoring isn't that clear cut.

    EXAMPLE: 3 individuals applying to the academy. One is in public school. One is in a private school. One is home schooled. Public school offers 2 AP classes per year maximum. Private school offers all the AP classes imaginable plus the IB Program. The home schooled has NONE available. 15% of the public school grads go on to college beyond the local state university. 75% of the private school grads go on to college beyond the local state university. Home schooled in unmeasurable. So, how do I score the 3 individuals when all 3 have a 3.90 gpa??? There is a formula, but the formula uses a lot of information that changes depending on the uniqueness of each school. We can't penalize an individual if they don't have the opportunity; but we need to reward those who go above and beyond.

    This is just one example of 1 portion of the process. Same applies for leadership, athletics, community service, volunteering, clubs/organizations, extra curricular, etc... There is so much more to the appointment process than you know. Each nomination slate gets their share. Which means each state and district get their share. I don't understand what you mean by the "IMPLICATIONS". Nothing is being implied. For instance, you said the implication is: "the longer you wait, the less likely you are to get appointed". Where did you come up with that? One last example WHY your "implication" charge is incorrect.

    1. You did not get selected for your MOC's slate appointment. But, you are #2 on the slate. (Either because the slate is ranked by the MOC or because you have the 2nd highest score, per the academy, on that slate). Either way, you are #2 on the slate.
    2. In the national pool, you are #500. There is basically NO WAY IN HELL you can get an appointment from the national pool. They will probably only offer about 250-300 from the national pool. You're too low on the list.
    3. The #1 individual on your MOC's slate who WAS OFFERED an appointment, decides to turn it down. But, because the MOC's slate is ranked or because of other reasons the MOC's slate MUST BE FILLED, the academy has to go back to the Slate in order to offer the next appointment.
    4. So, even though you are #500 on the national pool, you are NEXT IN LINE on the vacant MOC's slate. So you are offered the appointment.

    While it can be interesting on how the appointment process works, it can also give you one hell of a headache. Mainly; because it doesn't matter if you know it or not, you have absolutely NO CONTROL over it anyway. So, does it really matter??? Anyway; I understand the way you'd like the process. It's the way most people express every year. But the truth is: It CAN'T be that way. It's not possible. There's so many variables in the process that you can't make it black and white. That's why when it comes to academics, it's SO IMPORTANT to kick butt on ACT/SAT. When scoring gets complicated, the ACT/SAT is what will separate everyone. And while a 25 is a minimum ACT score, don't expect to get to the academy if you're sub scores are 25. The average is 30's. But, you might really excel and kick butt in another area. So even the ACT/SAT has variables.

    Sorry this doesn't answer your question. But your question doesn't have finite answers. The board possibly met for YOU in November. For ME in January. And for Billy-Bob in February. The board meeting today, is NOT TO CHOOSE WHO.... That's already been done mathematically with computers. The board now is to simply verify acceptance/rejection, change in status, verifications.
     
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  17. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

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    CC your explanation would be great as a sticky since the issue you explain so well will continue to need explaining as long as the admission process remains what it is. And at some point you might tire of explaining it.
     
  18. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I appreciate your insight. you are correct. However, the fact is also true that each year, there will be variances. For instance: while EVERYONE AUTHORIZED to apply for a presidential nomination is AUTOMATICALLY GIVEN that nomination; the academy can APPOINT "UP TO 100" people using the presidential nomination. UP TO MEANS, the academy could choose to NOT APPOINT ANY that particular year with a presidential. Without a major fight from congress, the academy MUST as a minimum appoint all the MOC available slots that the MOC's have submitted a slate for. So that's roughly 535 per year if we assume each MOC has at least 1 available slot and a submitted slate.

    But the academy could stop RIGHT THERE. No presidential. No VP. No preppies. No Prior-Enlisted. No ROTC. No other military nominees. The academy could simply choose to only have a class size at the BARE MINIMUM. That would be around 500-600. Of course, that could change too if congress approves it. That's where the federal law USC Title 10 comes in.

    This is why I discourage stickies that have to do with the appointment process or the nomination process. There are 535 MOC's. EACH one can have their only unique nomination process. One MOC can say you MUST have a 29+ Composite ACT even though the academy minimum is 25. The next MOC says you MUST take AP/IB classes or they WON'T NOMINATE you. How do you sticky nominations. Same with the appointment process. Certain nuances are going to change from this year to next. Just like this year compared to the class of 2012 and this year's 2013 are getting ready to graduate. It was simple then. The economy didn't make the academy as attractive. MORE applied to the academy because they wanted to serve; compared to the economy motivating many to apply for economic reasons like free education, job, benefits, etc... For the class of 2012/2013, simply OFFER 1700+/- appointments. KNOW for a FACT (Because of past performance), that 400-500 WILL Turn it down. Let the remaining 1200-1300 go to the academy. If the class is too big, worry about it next year and offer 100 less initially.

    It was great. The real BRAINIACS who were the best of the best were given appointments/LOA's in October/November along with offers from civilian schools that they applied to. We had a lot of individuals accepting the academy who were turning down offers from schools like USC, Tulane, Purdue, Penn, U. Texas, and MANY other fine applicants. Today, we still have good applicants, just that it's different. When the brainiacs won't hear about an appointment until March/April, many of these applicants have already accepted one of the schools like USC, Tulane, Penn, Purdue, etc... that they applied to last september/october. So, the academy still gets some high end applicants, it's just different. In the past, high end were exclusively those who really wanted the academy. They turned down BIG TIME SCHOOLS. Now; it's different. It's not the same. Anyway; it will change again probably next season too, so a sticky really isn't practical. Mike.....
     
  19. GoBlue1984

    GoBlue1984 Member

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    ChristCorp, Good posts and your insights are always appreciated. But something you have said asks for further clarification.

    You said:

    then you said later:

    So my question is, does the academy have to offer an appointment to a qualified candidate from an MOC slate (if primary or competitive winner turns it down) or can they reserve that appointment for a more qualified candidate from the NWL? I always thought it was the former, but it sounds from your earlier post they could pass on all others in that slate to take someone from the NWL.

    On a different thread I made the analogy that the MOC slates were like vans that brought candidates to a party with limited room: someone from the van is chosen to get out of the van and go in (the primary nominee is first in line; ranked nominees in order of their ranking; competitive the academy chooses) and all remaining qualified candidates in the van get in line to fill the party up. The point was that someone had to get out that van before the rest go to the line. Was I off there?
     
  20. John41057

    John41057 Member

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    High School percentage going to college

    Hi
    Christcorp I have a question? At my DS private school 100% go to college after graduation. 98% 4 year university (most high end universities) and 2% due to finances go to Junior college. Does this high number of students going to 4 year quality universities help in how my DS was given admission points at the academy?
    Regards
    John
     

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