Boys state or summer seminar

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by swewe, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. swewe

    swewe Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    The only week my DS could attend a summer seminar due to school and baseball conflict is the same week as our boys state in Indiana. Which one would be the best to choose from. Looks like a very hard choice if DS is selected for both.
     
  2. USAF463

    USAF463 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    10
    Boy's State would carry more weight on his application as far as leadership. If a choice had to be made due to conflict of schedule, would recommend Boy's State first. He should still apply for SS as it would get his application a head start if he were offered a slot.
     
  3. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,241
    Likes Received:
    275
    I would say it depends on how sure he is of wanting to go to USAFA. If there are no questions in his mind, Boys State gets points in the admissions process. If he does have questions, Summer Seminar is the place to get them answered.
     
  4. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    40
    As Raimius said, Boys State will add to his WCS while SS will not. Consider going with Boys State. We were told by our ALO that Boys State has the same weighting in the admissions process as being an Eagle Scout. It will also benefit his other college applications. If he receives an appointment, he will still have a chance to check out the Academy by shadowing a cadet which is probably a more insightful look at a day in the life of a Doolie than SS.
     
  5. Longhorn

    Longhorn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gain the Boys State Experience

    I recommend doing Boy's State session. It's a leadership marker and your state congressman look favorably upon this session. You can visit and view academies at various times. :shake:
     
  6. Texasrocks

    Texasrocks Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    2
    Are you looking to be recruited for the Baseball team? If so definitely state and perhaps go to the academy baseball sports camp - great way to get noticed by the coaches
     
  7. cisco

    cisco Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is the same for USMA? Boys State over SLS?
     
  8. tiger50

    tiger50 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sir,
    The AFA has a schedule that can work around that! For example, I hope to attend the Massachusetts Institute of Technology: Minority Introduction to Engineering and Science program, Boy's State, and a Summer Seminar. If scheduling permits, I would undertake all three of these! But I do realize the high chance of being rejected. However, I have been told by cadets, cadet parents, and school officials that Boy's State is a very important subject in the admissions process. I will be applying to NASS, WPSS, and the AFASS. I have all possible dates on paper so I can see if it all works. I do understand that you might have other things planned. My mother is very worried about her personal schedule for the summer. I understand your position. However, if I had the choice, I would choose Boy's State.

    Sincerely,
    Class of 2017 Hopeful
     
  9. USMA2016

    USMA2016 Appointee - Class of 2016

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Boys' State > any summer seminar.

    I've experienced USMA SLS, NASS, and California Boys' State; they're all fantastic and I wouldn't want to have had to miss out of any of them. However, if you have to end up choosing: choose Boys' State. USMA places Boys' State participation on the same level as Eagle Scout and Class President and I'm sure other academies view it in a similar light.
     
  10. McCoy

    McCoy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Boys State. It's weighed more and was one of the best weeks of my life. The people I met there were so awesome and I still keep in contact with several of them. ( Mayor just got a LOA to West Point!) Anyways, Boys State hands down.
     
  11. rkrosnar

    rkrosnar Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    16
    swewe

    Have your son apply to NASS, USAFA SS, West Point SLS. Do boys state if he can, he should.

    RGK
     
  12. FlyBoy1993

    FlyBoy1993 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    26
    Just a question: Why would a one week session carry the same weight as something as valuable and challenging as achieving Eagle Scout?

    If it comes down to the qualifications just to be nominated, you still have the qualifications whether you attend Boys' State or not. What is done or learned at Boys State that is so meaningful relative to being Class president or an Eagle Scout?
     
  13. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    40
    Because that's what the statistics indicate. Check out this 2006 analysis that identifies which admissions criteria make the best predictors of cadet success at USAFA. To Graduate from USAFA uses ten years of cadet data to analyze the admissions criterion relationships to graduation. I have summarized the criteria below. They can also be found on page 16 of the analysis paper.

    Admissions criteria with a statistically significant relationship to graduation (statistical significance at the 1% level):
    • SAT or ACT score
    • Prior academic record
    • Boys/Girls State
    • CFA score
    • Having a parent who graduated from USAFA
    • Having a sibling who graduated from or is currently attending USAFA
    Admissions criteria with a statistically significant relationship to graduation (statistical significance at the 5% level):
    • Number of varsity sports played
    • Being an Eagle Scout
    • Participating in National Honor Society
    • Participating in a church youth group
    • Participating in a student publication
    • Receiving a Superintendent's Nomination
    Admissions criteria with a statistically significant relationship to graduation (statistical significance at the 10% level):
    • Number of years spent playing high school varsity sports played
    • Participating in Academic Bowl
    • Having a parent who graduated from USMA
    • Having a parent who graduated from USNA
    • Having a parent who graduated from USCGA
    I found it interesting that having prior military service experience only had statistical significant at the 10.5% level. I expected this criterion to be more statistically significant. Hopefully this sheds some light on the admissions process in terms of criteria anyway. I found it fascinating, but then again I just love numbers! Sorry, I'm weird that way . . .
     
  14. Packer

    Packer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    5
    Very interesting. I had not seen this before.
     
  15. navy2016

    navy2016 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    2
    How hard was it for me to go to Boy's State? Well I walked into my school's guidance office and got it. They knew for years I was their next hope of sending someone to a service academy.

    However, many of the friends I made there had to be nominated as 1/50 to 1/75 statistically (larger schools can send more) and go through an interview to be selected.

    As for achieving Eagle Scout (I am an Eagle scout and OA Vigil honor recipient myself)....................

    Even if you were a slacker, you had to be a committed slacker (your mother might have planned your project for you and forced you to go to meetings where you did nothing, but you being willing to be stay).

    This is why I tell parents of younger scouts not to force their sons to be in scouting if their sons are not interested.

    Quite a few at Boy's State are Eagle Scouts or Life Scouts.

    As for the OP.......
    There are probably plenty of opportunities to visit the SA other than SS programs. For interviews, if you read the catalog, research, and speak to grads/current mids/acadets, you will probably know enough to give good responses.

    Attend both if you can but do choose Boy's State over SS if forced to make the choice.
     
  16. FlyBoy1993

    FlyBoy1993 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    26

    Simply to be nominated to Boys State, a candidate must have some serious credentials on the resume. My question is, "What happens in that one week that would equate it to earning Eagle Scout." My point being, if merely being qualified to go to Boys' State is the challenge, then listing the nomination would be pretty significant. Again, it's pretty challenging to accept that one week of leadership seminars and so-forth would equate to something as challenging as Eagle Scout.

    My son was never a scout and did not attend Boys' state. I'm simply seeking understanding of what happens in that week beyond what the websites say.
     
  17. Packer

    Packer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    5
    I read through this report last night and found it interesting but I have to wonder about why they would even consider some of the things as independent. A big one that jumps out at me is the National Honor Society, as membership is based on PAR. Why look at PAR and then "give points" for NHS? Typical requirements I have seen are a 3.5 or higher gpa, fill out the application and you are in. At some schools, kids can not even become members until the spring of their junior year and they begin filling out their academy applications a couple of months later. Sounds like another box to check.
    I thought about writing a criticism of the report regarding the Superintendent nominations as well but thought I may get flogged for that one and decided I didn't want to go there.

    The folks that did this report are much more knowledgeable than I but with statistics you can often get them to say what you want. With regards to Boys/Girls State vs Eagle Scout I wouldn't want to guess which one would be a better indicator of success at AFA.
     
  18. Packer

    Packer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    5
    My son is not a scout but did attend Boys State. The week of Boys State for him was a great learning experience in how the government (legislative, executive, and judicial) works. The week revolved around setting up a mock government and then as a government dealing with different challenges they were given. While a great experience, I don't know if they learn things that make them more likely to be successsful at AFA. I think the correlation is that the type of kids that seek and win a nomination to Boys State are the type of kids that do well at the academy.
     
  19. Romad

    Romad Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    1
    Very interesting and illuminating Blackbird, I wonder if the USAFA has taken into account the "Yard's" recommendations. It's interesting to note the wide variety of recommended EC, Athletic, and School activities that have no statistical significance at the 10% level. The flow chart showing that the WCS is not the final consideration but is, in fact, paired with the panel assessment for a final super score is also illuminating.



    Good Stuff!



    Thanks. :biggrin:
     
  20. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    You're assuming that there is a list of activities vs points. E.g. scouting gets 5 points, eagle scout gets 10 points, boy's state gets 15 points in the leadership category. It isn't that cut and dry. So no, you can't say that going to boy's state equates to being an eagle scout.

    You have to realize 2 things. 1) The academies score based on a whole person concept. 2) Most of the scoring has to be subjective, because most times, no 2 individuals have the exact same opportunities, interests, or available time. EXAMPLES: Are honors classes worth LESS than AP classes? And are those AP classes worth less than the IB program? What about the individual who only has 3-4 AP classes available at their high school? There's only approximately 500 schools in the entire USA that have the IB program available. Should the person who doesn't have these opportunities be penalized and scored less? Should the person who has an interest in Swimming, is on their varsity team, is a team captain, made all conference, etc... be scored less than the person who achieved the same accolades but in "Football"? Should Civil Air Patrol be worth more or less than scouting or JrROTC???

    We can play this all day long. Are certain things looked at more favorably than others? Yes. Why? Because certain things are NOT VOLUNTARILY pursued, but generally requires an outside individual(s) to nominate/select. Boy/Girl's state is not an activity you can simply "CHOOSE" to do. By being nominated/selected, others have demonstrated your excellence. By being chosen to be a varsity sport's team captain, you have been validated by your coach. You can't "CHOOSE" to be the team captain. Taking AP and IB classes usually require the individual to demonstrate that they can handle such an academic course load. Nothing against scouting, JrROTC, CAP, athletics, clubs, etc... (Don't READ INTO IT, I was in MANY of these things when I was in high school). But most of these are activities that you can simply "Choose" to belong to. No one is going to say no. Does it demonstrate personal qualities? A little. It demonstrates your passions, interests, if done long enough - your commitment, etc... It but it doesn't demonstrate truly how others view you. Making eagle scout definitely shows more success than life, star, etc... but it's not like someone says you CAN or CAN'T go for eagle scout. There are people who say you CAN or CAN'T go to boy's state, be captain, be class president,

    So while there aren't actual "Points" assigned to particular activities in your resume, each activity is looked at as part of your overall score. It's weighted based on availability, abilities, time management, success achieved, and balance with all other things in your application. The academy has to COMPARE the applicant who took regular classes with those who took AP and/or IB, to the person who was home schooled, with the person who HAD opportunities to take higher advanced classes and chose not to, with the person who didn't have the opportunity to take any. Compare this with the individual who didn't have a 4a/5a football team at their school, or didn't have CAP, or didn't have JrROTC, or had scouting, but because they got bumped up in a couple grades, graduated when they just turned 17 and didn't have the opportunity to get Eagle completed. Do you see how complicated this can be???

    So, why is Boy's State preferred over Summer Seminar? Simple. Boy's state is an activity that you need to be nominated for. It demonstrates that your school/local community thinks highly of you. YOU HAVE BEEN VALIDATED!!! Summer seminar is simply the academy TRYING to equally distribute 1000-1050 summer seminar slots to as many VOLUNTEERS nation-wide. Summer seminar is basically the academy's way of giving applicants the opportunity to see in a small way; what the hell they are getting themselves into!!! And even then, summer seminar won't show you everything. They'd love for all 12,000+ applicants to go to summer seminar. It would weed out a large percentage of applicants who realize the academy isn't for them. Unfortunately, they can only get in about 8%. Hope this explains a little bit. mike....
     

Share This Page