Branching, OML, OMS

[goaliedad]

I would imagine having poorer quality Cadets getting AD slots would do the opposite to the cutoff. In my mind it would make it higher, because a lot (most?) of these guys would be below the vanilla cutoff. So by filling slots from below the zone, there are less spaces for everyone else who may have scored higher but isn't in the ADSO-for-spot degree program.

I think that what this 2.75 ADSO program does is make it impossible for CC to establish the cutoff line before everyone has their branch/ADSO choices in. It used to be that you knew your OMS/OML position and the cutoff line before you had to commit your ADSO and branch choices. I think this is now muddy.

I suspect that the difference will be small in number as these are very narrow sets of majors and most below the cutoff line (without the program) probably do not qualify.

The bigger effect will be on those specific branches which will become a bit more competitive - especially in the lower 50%.

 

[mbitr]

I hope you're right, because I'll be pissed if I went from being above the line to below it because someone scared through a Telecom degree with a C+ average.

 

[NorwichDad]

Pretty sure I've met that officer. Several dozen times.

LMAO, I have also heard that from DS

 

[fxrocks8]

I'm curious how the special degree program will work, in terms for making it tougher for someone who doesn't have that special degree, but is willing to ADSO or at least compete for the branch. For example let's say that Cadet 1: has an N LDAC, average rating in BN, 3.0 GPA, 240 APFT,falls below AD OML but is a special degree major for the AG branch (has a degree in HR), made it his number 1 choice, and ADSO for it when compared to Cadet 2: who has a History degree, 3.5 GPA, S at LDAC, and finishes let's say top 30% on the AD OML?

 

[khergan]

I'm curious how the special degree program will work, in terms for making it tougher for someone who doesn't have that special degree, but is willing to ADSO or at least compete for the branch. For example let's say that Cadet 1: has an N LDAC, average rating in BN, 3.0 GPA, 240 APFT,falls below AD OML but is a special degree major for the AG branch (has a degree in HR), made it his number 1 choice, and ADSO for it when compared to Cadet 2: who has a History degree, 3.5 GPA, S at LDAC, and finishes let's say top 30% on the AD OML?

It could end up driving the average AD OML score up for non-STEM cadets, if that's what you're wondering.

I forsee it being unlikely to make a huge change this year, since most cadets are already set in their degree choices. In the next few years it may change things with Cadets who are somewhat less competitive switching to STEM majors in order to guarantee themselves AD and their branch.

 

[fxrocks8]

That makes sense, CC AD Cutoff will be harder, that's probably why they need more time to determine AD allocations. I was more curious of whether a special degree cadet will get priority to get that special branch AD over a cadet who has better results, but lacks the specialized degree preferred for that branch.

 

[dunninla]

In the next few years it may change things with Cadets who are somewhat less competitive switching to STEM majors in order to guarantee themselves AD and their branch.

I might have missed it, but is there a list of majors published? I can see Computer Science for Signal, but what major would map to MI, or Infantry or Aviation?

 

[Aglahad]

I might have missed it, but is there a list of majors published? I can see Computer Science for Signal, but what major would map to MI, or Infantry or Aviation?

Infantry? Criminal justice or general studies seem to be the most common ones

But really I can only think of a handful of branches that would utilize this option.

Signal
AG
Logistics
Engineers etc

 

[mbitr]

To be cynical it sounds like it was thunk up by someone who had the wool pulled over his eyes by his junior NCOs one too many times. "Well, you see, sir, because of solar flares in the ionosphere I can't do that until..."

 

[khergan]

It's a push from CC and specific branches to get more STEM majors in their field. I don't blame branches that have technical or math-related skillsets for wanting people that have at least some proficiency or experience.

Again, you guys can get the brief from CC, but the branches that have the 2.75 GPA and degree deal for AD are:

Air Defense Artillery
Engineer
Signal
Adjutant General
Finance
Ordinance
Chemical
Transportation


There may have been another, but that's as much as I remember. They don't all have the same degree requirements, either. For instance, a general Mathematics degree won't guarantee AD Signal but it will guarantee AD Finance. On the briefing slides, they have a specific list of degrees and their associated codes that go into CCIMS.

Don't get it confused - those branches above are the only ones offering the sweetheart deal. Except for Engineers, most of these were pretty unpopular branches anyway. Nothing will change for the average Cadet who wants to be Infantry, Aviation, etc. The most I can forsee happening is some middle of the road cadets switching to STEM majors to guarantee AD. I don't think it will cause that big of a shift given that these are some of the less popular branches.

 

[Aglahad]

It's a push from CC and specific branches to get more STEM majors in their field. I don't blame branches that have technical or math-related skillsets for wanting people that have at least some proficiency or experience.

Again, you guys can get the brief from CC, but the branches that have the 2.75 GPA and degree deal for AD are:

Air Defense Artillery
Engineer
Signal
Adjutant General
Finance
Ordinance
Chemical
Transportation


There may have been another, but that's as much as I remember. They don't all have the same degree requirements, either. For instance, a general Mathematics degree won't guarantee AD Signal but it will guarantee AD Finance. On the briefing slides, they have a specific list of degrees and their associated codes that go into CCIMS.

Don't get it confused - those branches above are the only ones offering the sweetheart deal. Except for Engineers, most of these were pretty unpopular branches anyway. Nothing will change for the average Cadet who wants to be Infantry, Aviation, etc. The most I can forsee happening is some middle of the road cadets switching to STEM majors to guarantee AD. I don't think it will cause that big of a shift given that these are some of the less popular branches.

Well said +1

 

[goaliedad]

It's a push from CC and specific branches to get more STEM majors in their field. I don't blame branches that have technical or math-related skillsets for wanting people that have at least some proficiency or experience.

Again, you guys can get the brief from CC, but the branches that have the 2.75 GPA and degree deal for AD are:

Air Defense Artillery
Engineer
Signal
Adjutant General
Finance
Ordinance
Chemical
Transportation


There may have been another, but that's as much as I remember. They don't all have the same degree requirements, either. For instance, a general Mathematics degree won't guarantee AD Signal but it will guarantee AD Finance. On the briefing slides, they have a specific list of degrees and their associated codes that go into CCIMS.

Don't get it confused - those branches above are the only ones offering the sweetheart deal. Except for Engineers, most of these were pretty unpopular branches anyway. Nothing will change for the average Cadet who wants to be Infantry, Aviation, etc. The most I can forsee happening is some middle of the road cadets switching to STEM majors to guarantee AD. I don't think it will cause that big of a shift given that these are some of the less popular branches.

A 2.75 generally means you've already given up a lot of OMS points. A middlin S at LDAC, few ECs because you are in a tough STEM major, in a large BN where you are just a number. I can see giving these cadets a shot at a branch that might be otherwise filled with liberal arts majors who will struggle with some of the technology associated with the job.

And as much as people laugh at FI as requiring specialized help, it seems that a lot of the problems we had in "rebuilding" these war-torn countries came in the form of trying to run a cash economy and playing banker without soldiers who understand and can set up financial control systems.

Still scratching my head about AG though...

Getting the right skill sets in the right branches reminds me about an old joke about matching talents to jobs (hopefully I won't get banned for putting it here):

In Heaven....
The Diplomats are Swiss
The Cooks are Italian
The Lovers are French
The Mechanics are German
The Police are British

In Hell...
The Diplomats are French
The Cooks are British
The Lovers are Swiss
The Mechanics are Italian
The Police are German

I admire CC trying to continually tweak the system that the Cadets are trying to game. They don't necessarily have the ability to control the mix of degrees coming through the pipeline, but know that given enough of certain irreplaceable skill sets, they can incentivize enough to get what they need where they need it.

 

[Jcleppe]

Goaliedad,

I for one have always loved that joke.

I can see giving these cadets a shot at a branch that might be otherwise filled with liberal arts majors who will struggle with some of the technology associated with the job.

Hey now...My son was a History major and he fly's helicopters. I get your point though, getting new LT's with degrees that match the needed skills would be helpful, although Comp Sci major with a 2.75 is probably not the skill level they're hoping for considering these cadets have been able to add their MS classes to their GPA. I have to wonder what the GPA would be without the benefit of the MS classes. Some schools have quite a few credit available for MS. I understand that some don't.

I just wish they would have other requirements besides the GPA, such as a min. APFT and a S at LDAC. My only issue with this is that some cadets that know they are guaranteed AD in a certain branch may not find the drive to go beyond the minimum to meet the requirements.

You know the old saying, "What do they call the cadet that graduates at the bottom of the class at West Point?...2LT in the AD Army"

 

[goaliedad]

Goaliedad,

I for one have always loved that joke.



Hey now...My son was a History major and he fly's helicopters. I get your point though, getting new LT's with degrees that match the needed skills would be helpful, although Comp Sci major with a 2.75 is probably not the skill level they're hoping for considering these cadets have been able to add their MS classes to their GPA. I have to wonder what the GPA would be without the benefit of the MS classes. Some schools have quite a few credit available for MS. I understand that some don't.

I just wish they would have other requirements besides the GPA, such as a min. APFT and a S at LDAC. My only issue with this is that some cadets that know they are guaranteed AD in a certain branch may not find the drive to go beyond the minimum to meet the requirements.

You know the old saying, "What do they call the cadet that graduates at the bottom of the class at West Point?...2LT in the AD Army"

And AV isn't part of that list of majors requiring one of those STEM degrees either. Shouldn't be either. Just because you can engineer a flying machine doesn't make you able to fly one. And with the UND flying program now a thing of the past (at least I think it is now), AV is now wide open for anyone with the moxie to try.

I'm with you on the requiring an S at LDAC. It really shouldn't be about bringing cadets above the cutoff line (although I suspect a couple dozen may be able to pull this off) but to try to make the best use of those above the cutoff line.

And of course, that last in their class at West Point has one up on all of them at least for AD chances. Of course having 80% of them going onto Combat Arms has its own set of misallocations, I could imagine. Perhaps Custer should have branched differently?

 

[Aglahad]

Goaliedad,

I for one have always loved that joke.



Hey now...My son was a History major and he fly's helicopters. I get your point though, getting new LT's with degrees that match the needed skills would be helpful, although Comp Sci major with a 2.75 is probably not the skill level they're hoping for considering these cadets have been able to add their MS classes to their GPA. I have to wonder what the GPA would be without the benefit of the MS classes. Some schools have quite a few credit available for MS. I understand that some don't.

I just wish they would have other requirements besides the GPA, such as a min. APFT and a S at LDAC. My only issue with this is that some cadets that know they are guaranteed AD in a certain branch may not find the drive to go beyond the minimum to meet the requirements.

You know the old saying, "What do they call the cadet that graduates at the bottom of the class at West Point?...2LT in the AD Army"

I remember asking probably close to a 100 infantry hopeful cadets this year as well as last year what their degree/GPA was and I usually got a sly grin followed by "Criminal Justice, 3.8+ GPA". I would follow up with another question, "Why CJ?". Some would talk about future police aspirations but most said they just wanted a degree and it was easy OML points.

My point is the system is already warped and played over by cadets. I had a roommate who was a comp sci major who worked his tail off and barely managed to squeak by with a 2.9 GPA. At least those who have an interest in particular branches matched to a major.

Yes, MS class GPA (usually at least an A/B) does help quite a bit.

While I strive to get a 300 every time at the end of the day in the OER block it only says if you passed or failed your APFT. The APFT score is a lot bigger deal in ROTC than in the real Army. In the big Army all that matters is if you can keep up with your guys and pass them but even then that really only applies to combat arms branches at least from what I have seen.

 

[Jcleppe]

I realize that on this board, if a cadet does not major in Nuclear Bio Chaotic Chemical and Physical Engineering with a Nursing Minor, they are wasting their time. It may come as a shock that not every cadet or person for that matter are drooling to become an engineer, nurse, or math teacher.

I admit some cadets may select a major that doesn't meet everyones approval. Believe it or not, a LA degree is not the kiss of death and that engineering degree is not always the golden ticket, and every cadet is not gaming the system, even if you seem to find "100" cadets that are all CJ majors.

For some college is means to an end...Engineering, Computers, Sciences, these majors are their path to that goal. For others, college is just a start, and LA's are the starting point to other fields, Economics, Business, Teaching, Law. Everyone seems to forget there's a thing called Grad School.

Sorry, just had to vent.

 

[Jcleppe]

And with the UND flying program now a thing of the past (at least I think it is now), AV is now wide open for anyone with the moxie to try.

UND ending their flight program really doesn't have much effect on branching Aviation. UND flight program cadets still were required to compete for Aviation on the OML, it wasn't just a free ride to the Aviation branch. This does not open up a larger number of Aviation slots.

 

[scoutpilot]

UND ending their flight program really doesn't have much effect on branching Aviation. UND flight program cadets still were required to compete for Aviation on the OML, it wasn't just a free ride to the Aviation branch. This does not open up a larger number of Aviation slots.

This.

 

[MabryPsyD]

I realize that on this board, if a cadet does not major in Nuclear Bio Chaotic Chemical and Physical Engineering with a Nursing Minor, they are wasting their time. It may come as a shock that not every cadet or person for that matter are drooling to become an engineer, nurse, or math teacher.

I admit some cadets may select a major that doesn't meet everyones approval. Believe it or not, a LA degree is not the kiss of death and that engineering degree is not always the golden ticket, and every cadet is not gaming the system, even if you seem to find "100" cadets that are all CJ majors.

For some college is means to an end...Engineering, Computers, Sciences, these majors are their path to that goal. For others, college is just a start, and LA's are the starting point to other fields, Economics, Business, Teaching, Law. Everyone seems to forget there's a thing called Grad School.

Sorry, just had to vent.

Basic branches (signal, AG, transpo, etc) really don't need computers science, human resources, etc majors. These officers will learn everything they need at OBC and their unit.

 

[Aglahad]

I realize that on this board, if a cadet does not major in Nuclear Bio Chaotic Chemical and Physical Engineering with a Nursing Minor, they are wasting their time. It may come as a shock that not every cadet or person for that matter are drooling to become an engineer, nurse, or math teacher.

I admit some cadets may select a major that doesn't meet everyones approval. Believe it or not, a LA degree is not the kiss of death and that engineering degree is not always the golden ticket, and every cadet is not gaming the system, even if you seem to find "100" cadets that are all CJ majors.

For some college is means to an end...Engineering, Computers, Sciences, these majors are their path to that goal. For others, college is just a start, and LA's are the starting point to other fields, Economics, Business, Teaching, Law. Everyone seems to forget there's a thing called Grad School.

Sorry, just had to vent.

No one is saying LA majors are a waste of time and for many college is truly a means to an end for a 20 year military career and that's fine. However, I was around cadets long to know why they did what they did and I can see why CC has in the last few years done a lot to adjust the OML system. They are pounded year after year to make more incentives for STEM/underserved majors. Once again I am not saying every infantry hopeful majors in CJ but I can tell you it is the running joke for popular majors and branches in cadet land. Jokes sometimes have truth to them.

While it is hard for many to quantify the differences between majors, graduation rates for certain fields and average earning potential out of college don't lie. I went to a career builder workshop a month or two ago and they touched on everything from packaging/presenting leadership experience in the military to the advantage of entering management in the tech field with a STEM degree. Either way, no degree is a bad choice when entering the military but these incentives are being created to level the playing field and get that "diversity" that the military loves to grasp onto.