Bulking it up

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by jamzmom, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. jamzmom

    jamzmom Founding Member

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    Protein drinks, bars, and other supplements Oh My!

    With so many experts on line and in the gyms pushing the “bulk up now” approach, trying to find the pros & cons of these supplements have had me reading seemingly useless product advertising information everywhere I look. I’ve talked with several academy kids who say they are using these products. Whey shakes seem to be the most popular. They all have different views on the products they take & why so I‘m lost.

    The latest request by three Mids I know is called Muscle Milk. I’m putting off sending it to them until I can find out more. Like, will their kidneys fall out if they take this stuff for prolong periods. And how about that liver? Call me an overly concerned parent but after seeing one of my employees, a kid who plays college football & is going to school for sports medicine, come back from his doctor who found blood in his urine telling him to stop taking his supplements, I‘m a little freaked out. Nope, he wasn’t drinking tons of it a day either. He’s since gone to a nutrition specialist who set him up on a special diet trying to replicate what the supplements were giving him.

    Just looking for a little education & debate here.
     
  2. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    I've been using a supplement to bulk up the last few years. It is commonly known as beer. There are several varieties. The real dark Irish types work best. But they all seem to work great.
     
  3. jamzmom

    jamzmom Founding Member

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    All that yeast bulking you up? Gee. Sounds like someone I know... Hubby's favorite past times. Beer & golf. Well, I'm sure you can imagine that with the Masters going on, its pretty much golf & beer heaven here. Being 20 minutes away from it, we get a lot of festivities 'round here. Don't know what happened to the temps tho. Record cold here. Tiger will have to bundle up. Atleast they didn't have to ice the azaleas this year. We had tickets for Wed. but I begged off. Been there done that. What a crowd!
     
  4. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    You had what???? You did what???? If the opportunity comes up again, I know where you can get rid of them. That is if I can get my recliner on I-71. Cold up here too. Supposed to flurry tonite.
     
  5. jamzmom

    jamzmom Founding Member

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    I know you do this on purpose cause you know how easily I can be led off topic.... Yes, I had four tickets. I would have liked to have followed Seve Ballesteros around though.... :D Gave tickets to a group of guys who I know enjoyed them. I might be able to hook you up next year. We usually have four but never Sunday's. You can come eat that nasty pimento cheese in the green wrapper everyone dies to have then fight your way thru the gift shop. LOL

    Now get back to my big muscles topic.
     
  6. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Just kidding. Usually enter the lottery for the practice rounds. Forgot this year. Got tickets one year but was unable to go. The guy who I gave them to brought me back a cap. I think watching golf is akin to watching grass grow but I would like to see Augusta just once.

    Isn't it okay to be off-topic on the Off Topic forum??
     
  7. RetNavyHM

    RetNavyHM USN (RET)

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    Big muscles don't help your golf game. Its the swing that matters.
     
  8. jamzmom

    jamzmom Founding Member

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    You guys are killing me. Ya'll know I rarely come up with a serious matter & lookee what you've done to it.....

    Since you're dragging me in deeper & deeper....
    USNA69 would love the huge sign that hangs in our garage right over all hubby's golf junk:

    "When I die, bury my balls right next to the old bag" :shake:
     
  9. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    ^^^^^^^^^^ ROTFLMAO, I thought I had heard them all. Now I am going to have to keep an old bag. Somehow, I seem to get rid of them all.

    At least Doc has cleared up my swing problem. I think I am "muscle" bound from all the supplements.
     
  10. CJohnson2013

    CJohnson2013 New Member

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    I never understood supplements, most of it is just dried milk, then you add water and viola you have "whey protein".

    If the person is doing an adequate amount of exercise with proper nutrition, there is fairly little reason as to why they shouldn't get bigger.

    Milk does help you lose weight, so if you are drinking a lot of milk to gain weight, that might be detrimental.

    My dad was 160 in HS at 5'10" (18 years old) and was declined a full scholarship for football due to being so light, he was number one in the state for "tackling" (I don't play football so I don't know the position or remember what he told me) and he tried all of the supplements, ate 6+ full meals a day, exercised like crazy, and drank as much milk as he could and never gained weight. The reason I believe and he believes he never gained weight, was because his exercise either equalled his caloric intake or it exceeded it. That and milk helps you lose weight so drinking a lot of that didn't help him any.

    Personally, I never used any supplements and I gained muscle mass/weight just fine, I think it is mainly the kind of exercises your doing and the reps/weight amount. And your diet. I always ate more calories then I expended, and I gained weight (Not fat, but muscle). I was about 135-140 in 8th grade, 165-175 by the end of 9th grade. I don't know an exact body fat percentage but it was fairly low. I was eating anywhere from 3,500-5,000 calories a day and exercised for atleast 3+ hours a day. At some points 6ish hours. (Water Polo+Swim+Weight Lifting+Walking/Running)

    It's fairly common knowledge that high reps at low weight build endurance, while low reps at high weights builds mass/high bursts of strength. I would just advise the people who want to gain weight to continue eating a well balanced meal, add some more carbohydrates and proteins, and then just continue to exercise. Don't forget calcium as your bones will need it, as they will "break down" and "rebuild" just like muscles do when you are lifting heavy weights.

    I don't know all the scientific terms for it but the bones are porous at a microscopic level, and with weight lifting they become less so, and eventually they will become completely solid as those "holes" are either filled up or broken down and reconstructed. This leads to extremely strong bones that are very dense and heavier. It's not limited to weight lifting it's just, putting stress on the bones (good stress like walking/running or calisthenics and weight lifting, not stress to induce fractures or anything like that) makes them stronger. This is very important as a lot of times muscle strength exceeds bone strength and you end up with all kinds of problems...especially joints, I can't recall the name of the vitamin or supplement, but you can find it any(should) drug store, it's...just something that helps keep the cartilidge and joints strong and well lubicrated.

    As for calories and what not, 3,500 calories = 1 lb of fat. I believe 1 carb = 7 calories, and 1 protein = 4 calories. Fat in the body is 9 calories I think. I could be wrong but basically, if your body doesn't have enough protein your muscles will break down and you will be losing strength and muscle rather then building and gaining. If you have excess protein it will just be turned into a calorie. Though it is easier for the body to digest and process carbohydrates for energy, so it is suggested that you figure out your daily needs.

    To estimate your daily calorie needs the equation is:

    Height: __ Ft. __ In.
    Women: 100 Body Mass Units for first 5 feet of height and +5 BMU for each additional inch.
    Men: 106 BMU for first 5 feet of height and +6 BMU for each additional inch.

    Total BMU is? _____

    Select Activity factor: Sedentary=13; Active=15;Very Active=17

    Multiply BMU total by Activity factor, total is your daily Nutritional Caloric intake value.

    This is an estimate and not an exact figure.

    Mine would be, 5'10", 166 BMUx15 AF, 2490 Calories a day to maintain body weight.

    I had a much better way to estimate the calories, based on height, weight, and activity but I no longer have that sheet, the number is roughly the same though for me. Granted I am of average weight now at 160-165. If you are heavier and work more, you would obviously need more calories.

    For the vitamins, you have to be careful that you don't take an excess amount, I can't recall but there are a few vitamins that if you take too much it can cause A LOT of problems, so it is suggested and recommended that you only take as much as you require. This might take a little effort on your part to look at what your eating and what you are taking in the way of supplements, as some vitamins add like say, zinc+calcium, and then you take a multivitamin that has 100% zinc for a 2,200 calorie diet, and another vitamin that has zinc+?. I think the excess zinc just makes your poo a little harder lol...:yllol: But there are some (most I believe) that have no problem and will just get pee'd out (dark yellow urine).

    I believe B6 and B12 are the big ones for muscle gain. I think it was aristotle who said, it's the mean between two vices? You want an adequate amount, not an excess and not a deficiency in anything.

    I hope this helped a little. I realize it's long but this subject is huge so...tried to get the basics in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2007
  11. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Couple things.

    If you look on the back of food labels, the proper calorie to type is listed. That's 4 calories per gram of carbs and proteins, 9 for fat. Otherwise, the calculation for carb intake would be drastically different!

    I drank muscle milk my senior year of high school. I drank it with my milk in the morning (chocolate flavor, very yummy) after I would run before school. I found it helped me recover quicker, but it was very fatty (one of the highest in fats of any supplement) so I gained some fat as well. It's supposed to help the body develop its natural creatine supplies and provide muscles with the amino acids to rebuild quickly. But, if you have too much, all that just becomes stored fat if its not burned.

    It's up to you, but as far as I know (especially since I avoided and avoid any of the creatine or supplement crap, muscle milk its harmful to the body or liver.

    The dangerous vitamins in excess are A, D, E, and K. These are the only fat soluble vitamins (the rest are water soluble). What this means is while the other vitamins are expelled in urine when in excess amounts, the fat-soluble ones become stored in the adipose fat tissue of your body. If you have too much, it can become toxic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2007
  12. CJohnson2013

    CJohnson2013 New Member

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    I will have to look into the 7 calorie bit, maybe it's alcohol that has the 7, I know there is a 7 somewhere! lol.

    But your information on vitamins is spot on, it is A, D, E, and K that are dangerous, when it does become toxic it can lead to all kinds of problems.

    Something I forgot to mention...

    Injuries! Make sure (For anyone reading this post) that you are careful when you do your exercises, make sure if you are weight lifting, that you are using correct form and not overdoing it. In your goal for gaining 5-10 pounds of muscle, if you push yourself too far or exercise incorrectly there could be disasterous effects.

    A few friends of mine didn't exercise correctly/pushed themselves too far and ended up injuring themselves, now 5 years from the original injury, they still have problems from it. It isn't always the same injury, but once you are injured in that spot the likelyhood that you reinjure that area dramatically increases.

    I had some injuries my freshman year that continually bothered me for a few years, kept me from being able to exercise, I went from a max of 175 lbs at 15, to 140 lbs at 18. Lost 35 lbs of muscle and years of hard exercise and work, all because of a lousy injury from teammates/coach being stupid at practice and getting caught up in it.

    So, be careful with what you do and good luck in your quest to bulk up! =]
     
  13. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    The supplement for joints is 'glucosamine/chondroitan' sorry for the spelling. Unfortunately recent literature in the Orthopedics journals is showing that this supplement in fact has no benefit to those who take it. Most orthopedists I have worked with over the past year still recommend it to patients with joint problems though as some people swear by it and it's not that expensive to try.

    As to supplements the main problem is that they are unregulated and one never really knows what dosage of what they are getting. Most are fairly benign and those that aren't get taken off the market eventually (take Phen/Phen for example).

    Unfortunately I don't know much about the supplements JM is asking about, but it appears that the three musketeers you are talking about are doing the typical Kings Point, I'm a junior/senior and need to bulk up routine. Been there/done that, haha.
     
  14. TacticalNuke

    TacticalNuke Administrator

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    Muscle Milk is really just a whey protein mix from what I read about it.

    If you're worried about quality, one of the best companies is TwinLabs. They tend to have more quality control than the others, and aren't a "make it in your basement" type of company. They are also more expensive for this reason.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2007
  15. CJohnson2013

    CJohnson2013 New Member

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    Ah yeah thanks it is Glucosamine that I couldn't remember, everyone I've known with joint pain that has taken that has had improvement, so I don't know if its just a placebo or if it does work, but from my experience it does.
     
  16. CAnderson197

    CAnderson197 Candidate Appointee

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    Ma'am,

    I've been involved in athletics all of my life, and at the beginning of my Freshman year of high school my football coach came to me and told me that the next year he wanted to see me at around 260. I looked at him a little amazed when I realized I only weighed 200 lbs.

    With that being said, a heavy lifting regimen and dietary supplements are something I am extremely well acquainted with. Muscle Milk is nothing to be worried about, in fact of all the dietary supplements (outside of the natural metabolism boosters like Green Tea), Whey Protein products like Muscle Milk are the safest to use, especially by those who are not experienced with them. Whey Protein is a Post-Lift speciality product. The way it works is a little complicated by in short:

    While lifting your body is being exerted expending proteins, the body only makes so much protein at a time, so after lifting most guys will take a protein shake (that varies in strength from around 20G-60G) in order to put more protein into the system. Every protein has a specific job which is targeted into the amino acids during the transcription phase of cell division. Whey Protein (I can't rememeber the exact nucleotide sequence) just happens to be one that basically builds muscles once they are broken down, so, while your body can replace it's own protein, taking a supplement gives off an excess which is used to be stored as muscle.

    Whey protein was the first supplement that I started taking, and I have never had complications from it. When whoever you are sending these to begin to ask you for more advanced products such as thermogenics and creatine products, please come back to me and I'll give you my "professional" opinion on them, and if I don't know about them I'll do the research. I hope this helps!
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2007
  17. CAnderson197

    CAnderson197 Candidate Appointee

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    My advice to you Ma'am is to go on down to your local GNC if you decide to get this and pick up a tub of GNC Pro-Performance Advanced Whey Protein. It's what I use. I recommend the Strawberry Flavor :).
     
  18. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Also, from a tad of research for a work-out I will start soon, it is best to consume "fast" proteins (think along the lines of simple sugars in absorbtion) like whey before a workout to allow them to be integrated quickly, then "slow" proteins (like Casein [equivalent absorbtion of something like rice]) after to take advantage of the muscles' highly increased rate of protein synthesis for 24 hours post-work-out.

    Can you confirm Anderson? (I'm a physiology/medicine buff, was going to try to go to USUHS after USAFA, but I'll be a pilot first then hopefully med school towards the end of my air force flying career.)
     
  19. CAnderson197

    CAnderson197 Candidate Appointee

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    Basically anything that's not bargain bin will come with what in laymens term is a "drive system" to get it to where it needs to go. Taking whey protein before a workout isn't something i've ever done but in theory i'd suppose it may do the same thing. I'm a republican, I like things the way they're meant to be ;). Lol, but in all seriousness, I can't see it having more of an advantage than taking it after, it's probably just preference.
     
  20. jamzmom

    jamzmom Founding Member

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    KP2001, LOL. Yep pretty much. I think they're alittle bored on the ship as well so working out is their life.

    You guys are great. Found out more in reading your posts in five minutes than the three days I've been looking up junk online on my own. So how do these drinks help you to recover? I know this will sound COMPLETELY stupid but.... does the protein help muscles recover much in the same way a sports drink helps the body hydrate?
     

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