Cadets do you understand the time commitment?

Pima

Pima

10-Year Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
13,900
A lot of threads are flying now about actual time commitments. I would like to read from the cadets/candidates what they believe their actual commitment is?

For example, do you think that accepting a rank means you owe NO commitment? Do you believe if you accept a military move after 3 yrs in service that you can still dive at 5? Do you believe that if you use the military to get a Masters degree you will not owe back time?

In other words do YOU believe you can do a 5 and dive? (Caveat:UPT).
 
As a USAF pilot, I'd incur a 10 year commitment after training. I plan on making it a career, but by the sounds of that, it seems like at least 12-13 years.
 
I knew that there was a commitment each time you advanced in rank, but I don't know how much that time commitment is. Would anyone happen to know?

I was planning at least serving the full 8 year commitment .

Isn't it possible for SA grads to use the post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for their Master's Degrees? I think LITS mentioned something once on SAF
 
Commitment for UPT (10 years, after gaining wings)
Commitment for PCS or promotion
Commitment for graduate studies (based on time of study and/or date of last class)
 
About how many people actually do the five and dive? Is it really that many people who are really planning on five and diving?
 
does it change much?

Is the length of commitment a moving target based on the needs of the military and the whims of the administration?
 
If the commitment is a huge concern...

Be glad you're not French and attending L'École de l'Air...or however its spelled (I do decent Russian and good Spanish, but French...not since 3d grade).

Their commitment is 25 years after graduation.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
KveTina said:
About how many people actually do the five and dive? Is it really that many people who are really planning on five and diving?
Click to expand...

My current plan is to do so. However, I'm open to the fact that in 9 years my mind may have changed. When I first started applying to WP I was pretty sure I'd leave as soon as my commitment was finished. However, now that I've learned more about the Army etc etc etc. I'm pretty sure (not certain) I may stay longer than that.

I'm not really concerned about it. My plans for the future (although I love what I plan to do) are not fixed to the point where I would be upset about not being able to leave after the 8 year commitment.
 
Sam,

Unless they have changed it recently. Accepting a promotion (actually pinning on) is a 3 yr commitment. PCSing and PME are also 3 yrs too. However, they can all run concurrent. For example you pin on O3 at 4 yrs, you now can dive at 7 yrs. Register for your last Masters at 4 1/2 yrs you are in until 7 1/2. Move at 5 and you can dive at 8.

The exception is you can turn down a PCS aka NON VOL move, and that means you are not taking the extra commitment. However, you will still move and you have officially informed the incoming base that you intend to dive. We have seen many guys do this at various markers. For example, it is 10 yrs for UPT once you get your wings (realistically that means 11). Accept Major at 9 and you can leave at 12. If they come to you at 10 yrs 9 mos and order you to move, if you accept it you are stuck until 14. You can say Non Vol, you will still move, but only spend 1 yr and still get out at 12.

There still is the rule that the military(at least AF) will not force you to move if you have less than 1 yr commitment left. That is why I said 10yrs and 9 mos. they hit you with orders, because they can still force you to go.

One other thing to cadets and young officers, just because the orders are cut for 3 yrs it does not mean you will do exactly 36 mos. It can vary, for example Bullet had a 3 yr tour assignment for AK. We arrived with 3 other fliers. We were the only ones to leave at 35 mos. One was hit with orders and left at 30, another left at 42. We all went to the exact same follow on in NC. The final one went desk and left at 48.

BTW one reason I started this thread was to enlighten people that 5 and dive due to military regs is not as easy as it sounds. PCS at the 3 yr marker and you owe 6. If you think about it, most assignments are 3 yrs, that means you are on the hook. I want people who think that they are going to do 5 and bolt to realize they not only need to plot their career, but also their commitments (PCS, Masters, Promotion) if they want to dive at 5. Basically if you want to dive at 5, you will refuse O3 rank. O2 is at the 2 yr marker so you will finish that commitment at 5.
 
Last edited:
AirForce Instruction 36-2501 "Officer Promotions and Selective Continuations" reads:

3.15. Active Duty Service Commitment for Promotions. No Active Duty Service Commitment will be incurred for officer promotions (see paragraph 3.14. for restrictions on retirement eligibility
Click to expand...
)
 
PIMA, I'm reading the document you linked, and while the first paragraph mentions General boards, I don't think that 3.15-which is what Bruno was citing- was referring to only General boards. I could be wrong, though.
 
futurepilot22 - you are not wrong. bruno is correct.
someone else is sadly mistaken and keeps attempting to impart incorrect information.
 
IC-1 TO AFI 36-2107 said:
RULE
If the ADSC incurring event is for:

1 EAD from a service academy 5 years

2 EAD for all other commissioning sources 4 years for Line and
JAG corps officers, 3 years for Chaplains

3 EAD from AFROTC 4 yrs

4 EAD for recall to active duty Equal to DOS on EAD orders 31 AF Form 24 or 125

5 Direct Accession/Minimum Term of Service 3 yrs (notes 10,11, and 12) 31 AF Policy

----------------
6 PCS (CONUS to CONUS) 2 years (note 5) 11 DoDD 1315.7
7 PCS (Overseas to CONUS) 1 year 11 DoDD 1315.7
8 PCS (CONUS to Overseas) Equal to initial DEROS or subsequent changes to DEROS 11 DoDD 1315.7
----------------
*9 Promotions

Enlisted: 2 years for promotion to E-7, E-8. 3 years for promotion to E-9.
Commissioned officers: No ADSC required. Federal law requires O-4s to serve 6 months and O-5s and O-6s to serve 3 years to retire in grade. (see note 13)

----------------
*10 Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT). (Only those who started training on or after 1 Oct 99) 10 years (see notes 1,2, 14 and 15) 80 10 U.S.C 653(a), AF Policy

*11 Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT). (Prior to 1 Oct 99)
8 years (see notes 1, 2, 14 and 15) 04 10 U.S.C 653(a)

*12 Undergraduate Navigator Training (UNT) 6 years (see notes 1, 2, 14 and 15) 04 10 U.S.C 653(a)

*13 Air Battle Manager (ABM) Ground Training (W-ABM-AMS-TN) 3 years (see notes 1, 2, 12, 14 and 15)
Click to expand...
Straight from AF e-publishing.

Although there is still some confusion on the part of many (including people at USAFA), that should solve the debate.
 
From JAM's link:

2–5. Promotion
a. A warrant officer who accepts a promotion to the grade of CW3, CW4, or CW5, incurs a 2-year ADSO. This
ADSO begins on the date of promotion and must be served before voluntary retirement.
b. A commissioned officer who accepts a promotion does not incur an ADSO. However, an officer in the grade of
lieutenant colonel or colonel must serve in that grade for not less than 3 years from the date of promotion to voluntarily
retirement in that grade unless waived under some other provision of law. An officer promoted to the grade of
lieutenant, captain, or major must serve in that grade for not less than 6 months from the date of promotion to
voluntarily retire in that grade.

It would appear the question has been answered...
 
SamAca10 said:
Isn't it possible for SA grads to use the post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for their Master's Degrees?
Click to expand...
Yes. The benefits are graduated and full benefits are received after three years of service. The service time clock for an SA or ROTC grad does not start ticking until their SA or ROTC active duty commitment is fulfilled. 5 years for SA and generally 3 or 4 years for ROTC.

here is a info sheet from the VA:
http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/Post-911_General_Info(2).pdf
 
KveTina said:
About how many people actually do the five and dive? Is it really that many people who are really planning on five and diving?
Click to expand...
a good number - this varies according from academy to academy and what wars we are fighting.
Cadets who insist they will five and dive sometimes end up making it a career and some of those who insist they will make General will five and dive.
While its good information to know, it's way to early to worry about any of this, IMO.
 
Mikeandcris said:
Is the length of commitment a moving target based on the needs of the military and the whims of the administration?
Click to expand...

No. Not really. The commitment is really 8 years of which 5 years are required to be on active duty. For ROTC scholarship winners it's 3 or 4 years AD. Some ROTC cadets will serve all eight years in the Guard or Reserves. Just remember every contract is 8 years.

After the AD time (or Reserve/Guard) is served the remainder can be served in the Reserves (or Guard) or IRR.
They can keep you longer than 5 years Active Duty if they need you. The can and has happened in the Army a few years ago in the height of the Iraq war. Also, during war time you can be called up out of IRR. Rare but it has happened.

The Government does not promote a bunch of officers on a whim to force them to remain in the serivce.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top