Can a MOC change his nomination process

[2017hopefulafa]

My DS was told by a gentlemen whose son is a SA graduate, that he should contact his MOC and see if he will change his nomination to a principal nomination. Presently the MOC uses the competitive method of nomination, and DS received a nomination.

Question is: 1) can the MOC do this? and 2) is this an appropriate request.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[marciemi]

MOC's can do whatever they want.

Since the deadline for submitting the nominations to the academies is the end of the month (next week), anything done has to be done quickly. And there's probably a really good chance the MOC has already submitted his slate of names.

It might not hurt to ask in a polite way. Most likely talking to the staffer in charge of the process, not the actual MOC him/herself. Have your son explain how much he wants it and ask if by chance he is obviously the most qualified candidate, if the MOC would consider designating him a principal. But what if he's not? I've served on boards and found that some are more impressed by the leadership/athletics while others will always pick the 35 ACT kid. Whoever is looking at your son's application may not find him the best candidate - do you want them considering naming someone else the principal instead?

Personally, I think this might have been a question for during the process - maybe asking if they'd consider using that method. But honestly, I've seen it hurt good candidates more than helping them. If he's truly the best candidate, the academy will end up giving him the appointment anyway.

 

[Spud]

I can think of nothing more presumptuous than to tell a MOC how to do his job such that your son gets his nomination. Great way to insure that he goes to Civilian U.

 

[Luigi59]

I can think of nothing more presumptuous than to tell a MOC how to do his job such that your son gets his nomination. Great way to insure that he goes to Civilian U.

Exactly as I see it.

Since a Congressman's principal nomination is a de facto appointment, it would be a pretty arrogant thing to do IMHO.

 

[kinnem]

Exactly as I see it.

Since a Congressman's principal nomination is a de facto appointment, it would be a pretty arrogant thing to do IMHO.

+1. A sure way to not even get on the slate at the end of it all.

 

[Maplerock]

Too late.

My son already did it. Sorry to bump your boy down the list.

Just kidding!

But seriously... how would you like it if another nominee from your state did the same thing and lessened your son's chances? Congressmen often state their procedures on their webpage, or maybe just in conversation with the interviewees. How could they ever change after that?

And... Historically the academy is pretty darn good at picking the nominee that is the best fit.

 

[esu8]

Nomination ?

If a candidate received a nomination from both Senators and their congressman how could it be determined who's slate the candidate was assigned to when appointed

 

[Christcorp]

Everyone else beat me to the punch. I recommend to my senators and representative that they use the principal method all the time. However; I would never tell anyone that they should recommend a specific person; namely themselves; as BEING that principal nominee.

Basically; "WHY SHOULD YOU be above the other 9 nominees". If the senator or representative wants to prioritize their slate, and make one a principal; more power to them. I encourage them to do it. But for the applicant/constituent to suggest/ask/etc... that THEY become that principal, goes beyond presumptuous and arrogant. As a senator or representative, I'd almost be inclined to take back the nomination. "If there were others requesting a nomination who didn't get one".

Now; that my blood pressure is back to normal, the "Gentleman" of the SA graduate who spoke to your son, probably just didn't know what the hell he was talking about. It's possible that his son got a principal nomination, and thought it's something you can "Put in for". He probably didn't mean to be ignorant or stupid; he just doesn't understand the nomination process or methods. Whether a senator/representative ranks their slate at all or strictly gives a list to the academy for the competitive method, is something that if you're curious about, should be done at the time you are applying. The senator/representative is not going to change their method mid stream. Not unless the "Academy" pissed them off and they want to make a statement by selecting who they want. But once you've applies and you've received your nomination, that's the end of it. You have no business asking about it after the fact. Best of luck. mike....

 

[Christcorp]

If a candidate received a nomination from both Senators and their congressman how could it be determined who's slate the candidate was assigned to when appointed

After basic training starts, if a new cadet is curious, they can ask their ALO. Not that it matters. But after BCT is over, the academy will know who is still there, who dropped out, etc... and they'll tell ALL the senators and representatives how many slots they have for the NEXT year.

Remember too. Just because you got a nomination from both senators AND your representative, you can still get the appointment and your slot ISN'T AGAINST ANY OF THE MOC's. The MOC slots only account for about half of the appointments. The appointments that come from the "National Pool" MUST have nominations, but when they are chosen to receive an appointment, the nomination they received doesn't get charged for their appointment. Those are free to the academy to bring the class up to the number of cadets they want.

 

[GoBlue1984]

If a candidate received a nomination from both Senators and their congressman how could it be determined who's slate the candidate was assigned to when appointed

It doesn't really matter; the academy knows. As I understand things, when appointed, you are picked from a certain slate and charged to the total number of candidates the MOC can have at the academy at any given time. Where you are charged determines how many slots will be available for that MOC seat in the following year; it has no other bearing on anything. If you are picked off the NWL, you are essentially a "free agent" that is not charged to a MOC seat. Even with all three nominations, you might not be charged to a specific MOC seat.

Attrition during CBT or the school year opens up potentially more appointees that can be charged to the MOC seat in subsequent years. Same thing for presidential nominees except I believe that the President can have up to 100 charged appointees in the academy at any given time. I think the only "unlimited slate" is associated with the decendents of Medal of Honor recipients.

Getting a nomination a hurdle; getting an appointment is like running the steeplechase!

 

[Christcorp]

.....Same thing for presidential nominees except I believe that the President can have up to 100 charged appointees in the academy at any given time......

It's not 100 "At any given time".

It's 100 PER YEAR. But the selection has been delegated to the academy, so they can choose "UP TO" 100 each year. Many times it's less than 100. But it's each year, not total at the academy at any given time.

 

[usna1985]

Many times it's less than 100

I would find this surprising, given that there are ~700-800 Pres nominees each year (at least for USNA) and I would assume -- dangerous, I know -- that there are 100 qualified among them.

And, those who don't get a Pres appointment go into a National Pool from which 25% of the remaining appointees are chose. That wouldn't happen if the first 100 slots weren't taken.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Luigi59]

I would find this surprising, given that there are ~700-800 Pres nominees each year (at least for USNA) and I would assume -- dangerous, I know -- that there are 100 qualified among them.

And, those who don't get a Pres appointment go into a National Pool from which 25% of the remaining appointees are chose. That wouldn't happen if the first 100 slots weren't taken.

Am I missing something here?

I don't think those with only Presidential noms go into the national pool of "qualified alternates.

 

[1964BGO]

I do know that a few years USNA Admissions reacted vigorously to nomination manipulation attempted by an AC! The information promulgated by USNA Admissions consistently favored the fully competitive slate vs the ladder (Pr, 1A, 2A, 3A...) approach. IMHO, I believe the issue is the potential for mismatch in desired attributes, accomplishments, and other candidate traits. Just my personal observation and opinion for what it's worth, take it or leave it.

 

[jasperdog]

What is an AC, please - sory for the silly question - I'm not familiar with that acronym. Thanks in advance for the schooling.