Can I get an AFROTC scholarship?

[dunninla]

Hey guys. This is my first post here and I am curious about my chances for an AFROTC scholarship.
My stats:
GPA: 3.57 (unweighted), 4.08 (weighted)
ACT: 33 ( 33R, 33E, 33M, 32S)
SAT: 1390 (700CR, 690M) (1400 super scored) should I report this?
College credit: Wil graduate with 20+ (2 AP's, 2 Dual Enrollment, 19 honors)
Major: Non technical (finance/international business)

Extracurriculars:
Baseball (9th, 10th) shoulder surgery prevented play junior year, and I may have to have another surgery (possibly requesting PFA waiver because of the inability to do pushups)
Future Business Leaders of America (FBLA) (10th, 11th, 12th)
Distributive Education Clubs of America (DECA) (11th, 12th)
Volunteering: ~100 hours of miscellaneous work

Awards:
FBLA: 2011: 1st place at districts (E-Business), 7th place at State (E-business)
DECA: 2012: 3rd place at invitational (Financial Services Team Decision Making), 1st place at districts (Financial Services Team Decision Making), 4th place at State (Financial Services Team Decision Making), 4th place at State (International Business Plan), International Competitor (International Business Plan)
Baseball: 2011 Summer: State tournament most valuable hitter

Leadership:
Vice President of DECATeam leader in organization of fundraisers, raising $1500<

Work Experience:
Summer 2012: Social Media Marketing and Search Engine Optimization for international manufacturing automation company (~8 hrs/week)
Summer 2012: Financial Metrics and Reporting for international consumer services franchising company (~16 hrs/week)

High School of Business
Not sure if this is relevant to the AF, but my school is one of about 40 in the country that offers the High School of Business. What it is is that students take certain classes throughout their high school years, and they graduate with a separate diploma from the "High School of Business". There is talk about making this diploma worth 12 credits at our state colleges, because the classes are equivalent to those of a first year business student in college. I will graduate with this diploma, and I did not factor these credits into the previous 20+

Medical Issues
As previously mentioned, I had surgery on my shoulder to repair a torn labrum. During the surgery, a tool broke and a piece was left in my shoulder. I may have to have another operation in the coming months to take it out, thus rendering me unable to do pushups.
Also, in middle school while playing football, I sustained a hip injury. Throughout many bouts of physical therapy and MRI's, no problem or solution could be determined. However, due to the fact that the shoulder tear was not seen on the MRI, the doctors think that there may be a similar problem in the hip. Most likely a torn hip flexor that didnt heal correctly, or a torn labrum. An opperation will most likely happen here...

So what do you guys think? I hope the medical problems dont disqualify me...

OK,
red = huge or disqualifying problem.
green = strong point
blue = good but not great

Way too much red in your file. 10%-20% chance if the medical issue are definitively corrected prior to file review. 0% chance if the medical issues are not definitively addressed. Read various threads on this Board about medical waivers.

I think you're missing the big picture, which is your fellow servicemen depend on you being medically fit.-- I hope for your sake (and I mean that sincerely, not maliciously) that the medical problems, if left unfixed, DO disqualify you. I wouldn't want to find myself behind enemy lines needing to carry my fellow airman to safety simply because he (you) were dead weight from the outset. Let me ask you this... why do you think there exist medical qualifications for servicemen? Common disqualifiers are: overweight, flat feet, asthma, allergies, color blindness, depression, ADHD, Migraine headaches, misaligned joints, and a few other things that might not seem like much in civilian life, but can put you and fellow servicemen in danger. Having hip and shoulder muscles that cannot perform properly is just as serious. Get yourself medically fit first, then consider putting yourself in harms way where you (and those around you) will need those shoulder and hip muscles performing properly.

To put this a different way, would you ever write: "I hope they don't check the brakes at my car inspection before for my cross country trip with my baby sister, because I know my brakes are shot"?

 

[B7qg6x5m]

I appreciate the input. I understand that, and it's a great analogy you made. However, all of these problems can be fixed. The issue is if they can be fixed in time for me to take my test an get my application in.
A second shoulder surgery is not confirmed yet. It may or may not have to happen. Due to a complication during the first operation in February.
I am certain that given enough time, I could recover and be a perfectly suitable airmen. They can be fixed. I just don't know if the time restraint will kill me.

I just had an idea. Can you send in additional information after you turn in the application? (some colleges allow you to send in your app, and then if you receive a higher score on a yes or receive an award, you can send that in and they will reconsider your app)
Would the airforce allow me to do this with the PFA? I struggle through it the first time, do my best. I probably wouldn't be selected first board, but I could continue recovery and submit a new one? I still don't know if it would be enough time but I sure hope so.

 

[Jcleppe]

Recovering from the surgery or injury is not really the issue. The fact that there was an injury and not just one is more the issue. Even if you have surgery and recover you can still be disqualified for having a history of injuries. If as you say a piece of the tool was left in your shouder during the first surgery, that alone if not removed could be enough to DQ the medical. There will need to be a documented amount of time after all the surgeries are complete that will show that you can perform without restrictions or re- injury. A couple months and even a year may not be enough time to determine how your injuries have healed. Since you will most likely not be able to participate in Varsity level sports during you final year of high school there will be no way to document your ability or level of recovery.

Just to give you an example. My son had a slight Avulsion Fracture of the hip doing Track in the Spring of his sophomore year, no surgery was needed, just rest and he missed the State finals in Track. The hip healed over the summer and he was back in Varsity Cross Country by Fall of his junior year, he had no problems, he participated in Varsity Track in the Spring, again no problems. Over the summer he took his APFT for the Army scholarship and passed with a high score. He participated again in Varsity cross Country the Fall of his Senior year. When he went through the Dodmerb Physical he had all the documentation and letters from the doctor, he was qualified the first go around. The point is that he was able to show a long enough track record of his ability to perform without restrictions. Had this happened less then a year before he applied I am sure he would have been DQ'd.

When you fill out the Dodmerb medical history they will ask you questions about surgeries and injuries, when you check yes you will then be directed to a page that you fill out documenting the entire injury and treatment. The biggest question on that section is where you explain everything you have been able to do since the injury was healed, this is where the track record is formed. With no track record of athletics over a long period of time the chances of being qualified are very very low.

If you are somehow able to do the PFA for the scholarship application and are selected you will have a certain amount of time, usually until the first semester is over to become dodmerb qualified, in your case that is still not much time.

You really need to talk to the AFROTC Battalion at a couple of the schools you want to attend and lay all this out for them. They may be able to help you chart a path to follow.

We are not trying to discourage you, just be aware of the pitfalls ahead of you, they are bigger then you think.

Pima can answer this better then me but you may be able to join AFROTC as a non scholarship cadet, most cadets are non scholarship, and if everything works in your favor you may be able to get Dodmerb Qualified by the middle of your sophomore year.

Take a look through the Dodmerb section of this forum and you will get an idea of the many issues, some that seem minor, are cause for disqualification.

As far as your straight chance at recieving a scholarship, based on the stats posted in the past of those that received a scholarship, I would say 40%, but that's a guess that in this date in time is not worth much.

 

[Pima]

I can't see how he will be allowed not to submit a COMPLETE PFA since that is part of the WCS. You can't get boarded unless the packet is complete. DoDMERB exam is not part of the packet. If you think about it, this is a shoulder issue, push ups and pull ups, heck even sit ups due to form can be issues, leaving what? Running ? The outcry from candidates that they boarded him without a PFA and awarded a scholarship would be insane.

Caveat: I have never in the 4+ yrs here have ever seen a candidate be boarded without the PFA, not saying it hasn't happen, just saying I haven't seen it here (if they do, be smart keep it to yourself, because like I said, the outcry will be deafening). I have seen candidates get waivers to contract because they got injured prior to their PFT, but that occurs once they are at their det. I.E. PFT are 2x a yr., DS played intramural soccer injured his foot, couldn't run, already contracted, but needed the PFT as a scholarship recipient. They allowed him to delay it by a few weeks.

Tkaler,

I think you are missing why people aren't chancing you. It comes down to 2 things.

1. Older posters, such as Jcleppe, Dunninla, and myself, know that is a fool's errand.

The reason why is we do not know with the military cut-backs how hard they are going to hit ROTC. They are hitting ROTC big time...evident by the fact they are closing some dets.

We don't know how many are going to apply. However, for AFROTC posters, the real tell has yet to be published. LY scholarship stats. This is important because the AFA cut appointments down to 1050. When they were offering 1600 appointments in 09 that was one thing, because the majority of AFA candidates apply AFROTC as Plan B, but now they have smaller class sizes that can translate into much higher stats for TY. AFA 17 expects to increase class size by only 50 cadets to 110. The pool could be much larger.

Your SAT is very strong, not high enough for the median Type 1, which hovers in the 1440 range, but higher than the Type 7. AFROTC does not super score, it is best sitting, so your score is 1390, but as others have pointed out depending on how AFROTC works your cgpa to their system, it can be low regarding PAR.

2. Bigger reason why you are hearing crickets is DoDMERB.

I don't think anyone here believes you won't get hit with a DQ, and be put up for a waiver.

They will want enough time between the surgery to know that the shoulder is healed properly.

On top of that you will have to acknowledge your hip issue, which may become a DQ too.

This is before the silly crap that people get nailed with all of the time... i.e. inhalers never used, but prescribed. Or eyes.

It can all be waived, but we are not docs, and when you start saying at 17 you have had 1 surgery, need a second, and possibly a 3rd, people back away.

As Jcleppe stated, go to DoDMERB forums and post your medical issues, posters can help you to see if you should place your energy on getting that in order now.

I would suggest that if your folks can afford it, make sure you go to a top rated ortho specialist. You will want that in case you need to go for a remedial or a waiver.

Nobody here is trying to dissuade you, we are all trying to impress upon you the system, and while we may appear to be cold-hearted, we are not, we are just being factual regarding the process.

As others have stated it is up to you and how badly you want the scholarship. If are negativity dissuades you in any manner, than you have the real answer. You don't need chancing, because believe me every yr there is that candidate that people were 99% positive they would not get a scholarship and they did get one. Just as every yr there is the candidate that 99% of posters told them they would be shocked if they didn't get offered a scholarship, yet lo and behold they didn't squat.

Nobody here sits on the board. Nobody here knows what the ROTC budget will be for FY 13. All we know is the military budget is being slashed, dets are being cut, but we don't know how many candidates are out there. Maybe 3K will apply this yr and they can have 1500 scholarships. Maybe 8K will apply and they have 700 scholarships. The pool changes every yr. Your life, your decision.

Best wishes, hopes and thoughts. AIM HIGH! ABOVE ALL!

 

[B7qg6x5m]

Alright, thanks all for the replies. I am not dissuaded, I really want this. I will do my best on the application and try to push through the PFA and pray that I can get a waiver. I know it will be healthy enough, just gotta hope it does so in time.Thanks again

 

[Pima]

Tkaler,

Here's the deal with DoDMERB, you do not select the doc., DoDMERB assigns you their docs, and you take your records to them. Not every doc is DoDMERB qualified. Do you know if your doc is DoDMERB qualfied? If so that is a blessing.

I really would suggest that you post your medical issues on the DoDMERB thread so you can be prepared for anything and everything.

With the budget cuts, they have changed the system, the exam typically now does not occur until the candidate is deemed competitive. The problem for candidates entering with a physical issue is that can put them up against the wall from a time frame perspective regarding remedials and waivers. Waivers can take weeks, even months. The sooner you have your stuff in order, the better off you will be.

 

[Packer]

Alright, thanks all for the replies. I am not dissuaded, I really want this. I will do my best on the application and try to push through the PFA and pray that I can get a waiver. I know it will be healthy enough, just gotta hope it does so in time.Thanks again

It sounds to me like this is something you really want. If you don't try you will always wonder. I would give it your best shot. In your case you need to figure out how to time your PFA to give you the best chance of being able to complete it. If waiting until the application due date will give you more time to heal, I would suggest waiting and foregoing the first boards. I am nearly certain you will have to submit a PFA to get boarded.

You could post your condition on the DoDMERB forum as Pima suggested but you won't learn anything you don't already know because nobody on here knows. You know you are likely to get dq'd and will need a waiver so be prepared for that.

Good Luck

 

[Non Ducor Duco]

We don't know how many are going to apply. However, for AFROTC posters, the real tell has yet to be published. LY scholarship stats. This is important because the AFA cut appointments down to 1050. When they were offering 1600 appointments in 09 that was one thing, because the majority of AFA candidates apply AFROTC as Plan B, but now they have smaller class sizes that can translate into much higher stats for TY. AFA 17 expects to increase class size by only 50 cadets to 110. The pool could be much larger.

Pima, a few weeks ago pv123 posted some stats for the 2012 AFROTC scholarship process. They seem credible.

- Nationally, over 13,000 high school seniors applied for AFROTC scholarships for Fall ’12 start
* -- 4,825 met minimum standards to be interviewed and then evaluated by a central scholarship board
* -- 1,449 (30%) were offered scholarships
* * * --- 77 Type 1 offers; 5% of total offers; avg 1440 on SAT reading/math or 33 on ACT
* * * --- 216 Type 2 offers; 15 % of total offers; avg 1360 on SAT reading/math or 31 on ACT
* * * --- 1,156 Type 7 offers; 80% of total offers; avg 1280 on SAT reading/math or 29 on ACT
* -- CLS scholarship applicants are not included in the central scholarship board statistics above
* * * --- The CLS offers were made before the board met
* * * --- CLS selectees are exceptionally qualified and are all awarded either Type 1 or Type 2 scholarships *

-- Commander’s Leadership Scholarship (CLS) within High School Scholarship Program (HSSP)*
* * * --- One CLS per Det, per year
* * * * * ---- Powerful tool to recruit high quality students to help establish/maintain a solid leadership core
* * * * * *---- Stringent qualification thresholds to ensure CLS only offered to candidates of highest quality

http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=25767

My scholarship presentation letter said that about 15,000 applied, but the number could have been off for this year because it might have been the same one from last year or the year before for all I know.

 

[B7qg6x5m]

Also, does anyone know how the airforce uses GPA? Weighted or unweighted? My weighted will be the ony one on my transcript, they will have to recalculate it to get the unweighted. Will they just take the weighted?

 

[B7qg6x5m]

Also, does anyone know how the airforce uses GPA? Weighted or unweighted? My weighted will be the ony one on my transcript, they will have to recalculate it to get the unweighted. Will they just take the weighted?

 

[Packer]

Unweighted.

 

[Pima]

They use the unweighted, but they place weighted classes into the equation. The reason for this is as I explained before we do not have a national gpa system.
For example:

Our kids HS in NC required that the student take the honors class before they could take the AP in all Math and Science classes. In other words you can't take AP Bio unless you already took Honors Bio.

It is very difficult for a student to have tons of STEM APs, almost impossible.

However, our kids HS in VA allows the student to select AP over Honors, but there is a caveat...unless you were in TAG, you would not be able to take it until your jr. yr., because the 1st APs they offer start with Chemistry and Calc or Stats.

Additionally NC scale was 7 pts on a 5.0 scale, VA is 10 pts on a 4.5 scale.

This is why with your transcripts the school will send their own profile, which will include not only the scale, but what classes needed pre-reqs.

Not everyone's cgpa will change, but some do.

 

[Pima]

Non

Thanks for posting the stats, I guess I missed that, but also was shocked that they have already published it.

I am curious to see how many took them up on their offer, especially since the AFA class was so small this yr.

The reason for my curiosity is long time posters will remember that for 2 yrs the ISSP was halted along with OCS, the reason why was those class yrs had so many acceptances and such a high retention rate there was no need and no money left in the pot for 3 yr scholarships.

It will be interesting to see if AFROTC learned from that lesson, and now held back more scholarships so they can have an IS board this yr., or are they just going to say the pot is empty like they did 2 yrs ago.

This was a drastic jump from 11 because I recall it was only 911 offered, and it has been officially announced some dets will be closing in the near future, I think the number I read or heard was @30 units nationwide.

The importance for every candidate to comprehend is it does change yr to yr depending on AF's long term strategic manpower needs. They may feel that the yr groups they had to cut were already cut and now they feel in 5 yrs to meet their manpower they need to open up the pipeline some more.

Think of scholarships like ECON101, it is all about supply and demand. When the supply is low, and demand is high the AF can set tight parameters. Conversely, when the supply is high and demand is low, that is when you see them loosen up the parameters, such as waivers, cgpa, SATs, etc.

The board will enter knowing the exact amount of scholarships being offered for FY13. They award points to the candidates, anybody scoring above that line gets a scholarship, anybody below doesn't. Here's the problem for some though and the reason why people tell candidates to submit early.

A candidate can accept the scholarship in January, hold onto it until I-Day at the AFA. That money is now spoken for, because AFROTC believes you will use it, thus there will be less scholarships available to award for late boards.

FWIW, place this in the back of your mind, but don't panic if you are re-boarded. It is more about the board wanting to see a larger pool before awarding the scholarship. In other words it can mean you are between a Type 1 and a 2, or a 7 and a nothing, you just have to ride it out.

 

[Non Ducor Duco]

I'm not sure if those stats have been put out for the general public yet since there is nothing on their site, but according to pv123 they come directly from AFROTC headquarters and idk how anyone could make that up. AFROTC must be updating their website slowly though cause this wasn't on there when I applied.

Electrical Engineering, Computer Engineering, Meteorology, Nuclear Physics, and Nuclear Engineering are highly desired majors for AFROTC cadets. Scholarship applicants selecting these majors might receive priority in the scholarship selection process.

It seems that the Air Force has become more interested in Nuclear power which is great, they had a different set of highly desired majors last year that didn't interest me at all. I had already decided on Nuclear Engineering by the time my interview came around but I didn't think that I would be able to utilize that degree in the Air Force. Hopefully that will not be the case. Anyone applying this year how is interested in engineering but has not yet settled on a specific field should look into it. It is in high demand and, with many of the engineers now in the field retiring in 5-6 years and public opinion having become more positive towards Nuclear power, the demand will continue to grow. Just something to think about if interested. Just be sure to research it and do some thorough soul searching before picking it because it's not something to take on lightly and certainly not solely to get a scholarship.

 

[Pima]

Non Ducor I wasn't doubting the stats at all, I was just curious of what the acceptance/activation rate will be like come this fall, including how many will convert Type 7's to Type 2 3 yrs., because that can impact what is left in the pot for IS.

I worry that posters will miss one big number; 13,000 opened files. Granted some will never complete the application, but there will be many that will and be immediately placed in the do not pass GO. do not collect $200.

To piggy back on your comment about nuclear programs being added recently, that is also why people tend not to like doing chance me threads. Every yr can be different, and the AF can tweak it which will have a ripple down effect.

Additionally, if this is a field you are interested in, but want to go rated, think long and hard about this before accepting the scholarship. Once you accept the scholarship you will need approval to change majors.

A few yrs back engineering was't as critically undermanned as it is now. Engineering majors were having no problem getting a rated slot. Now, certain engineering majors have been informed that they will not be able to compete for a rated slot.

Don't select a major to game the system. Select it because that is what you love, and what you are willing to do in the AF.

FWIW, the reason some cadets were selecting engineering from a rated perspective is you can not go to Test Pilot School with an engineering degree. It was for a long term career path, and not necessarily gaming the system.

I will say VAMOM's DS at VT, did not get a HSSP, he did get ISSP the following yr., the reason they said was because his intended major was Aero Engineering and they felt they had too many in that particular major. It actually worked against him for HSSP. He was a candidate posters swore that would def. get a scholarship, and most likely at least a Type 2, maybe a Type 1. He had it all, high cgpa, 1400+ SAT, NSMF, Magnet school in VA, 2 sports, school leadership, countless hours of volunteering. If I recall correctly he also was re-boarded, which lead many of us to believe with his stats, it was coming down to which Type he would be awarded. He really did not have any visible issue to any of us. He did to the AFROTC board...his intended major.