Candidate Pool and Qualified Candidate?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by the_yeti2351, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. the_yeti2351

    the_yeti2351 Member

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    On the 2013 class profile on the AFA website, it breaks it down on how many people got accepted. I'm just wondering, what exactly is the Candidate Pool and the Qualified Candidates? Is the Candidate Pool the number of ppl who had on their online application status "Candidate" and the Qualified Candidates are the people who had a 3.5 gpa or higher, 580 CR & 560 M, nomination, etc. Please help thanx :eek:
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The candidate pool is all that get their status changed from applicant to candidate, in essence they got a nom.

    From what I have always been told, a qualified candidate is one step up from the candidate. That means they meet the min required for PAR (as far as I know there is only one min, and that is you must have a 490 or higher on the CR for the SAT or 25 for V on the ACT, there is no gpa min). Qualified also means you have been given a "GO" medically by DODMERB. AKA to the USNA saying triple q.

    For the SA's they start with applicants and change to candidate, but you will never see on line if you are a "qualified" candidate. AS a reminder this is how the system number wise typically works:
    @ 10K students open a pcq in March, from that number @ 6K are allowed to become applicants (notified end of June). That number is whittled down to @ 3K+ who become candidates and @1600 are offered a spot.

    Hope that answered your question.
     
  3. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

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    Where did you get this number? My son was sent a letter back in October saying that he did not meet min SAT/ACT requirements for admission and to retake the tests--He has a 540 SAT. On his online app. that is the score with <> around it indicating it is not competitive for an appointment. I have never seen that 490 number anywhere, so just curious. Son has a 4.0 unweighted GPA and #1 in his class. Luckily he rcvd his appointment to USNA 3 days BEFORE getting this letter from USAFA, so it didn't upset him too much.
     
  4. CadCandMateus

    CadCandMateus Recent Grad

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    looks like your son got a 540 total. 490 is minimum for CR section.
     
  5. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

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    No, I just double checked, his CR score was 540, Math was 690, and Writing was 600
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    You need to look deep into the bowels of the AFA website under the scoring break down, the page that shows 60% PAR, 20% ECs, 20% Recs, etcs. In the paragraph describing the break down it says clearly 490 is not normally deemed competitive (this goes back to class of 12). The site was changed this year so I do not know how to walk you through it, but the AFA is the only SA that states the min regarding CR or V. Again, the AFA may have such a large pool that they changed the mins for CR, and your son did not make the mins. @10K open files, they need to make a cut somewhere regarding candidates knowing that 60% of the WCS is PAR, and 540 might be too low to be competitive. My personal experience is 2 yrs old.

    Congrats to your son on his apptmt to the USNA, please take no offense, but was he recruited for athletic purposes? 4.0 uw means very little IMHO because it does not address the rigors of his course load, i.e. 4.0 Honors, but no AP. Not saying he did not take the most difficult course curriculum, nor that he does not deserve the apptmt., but the avg SAT M for AFA is what your DS scored, and the CR is @ 90 pts higher then his number, which means to me he has a shining star somewhere else in his packet.

    For class of 15, that stresses the fact it is the Whole Candidate...book smart will not get you in, top athlete won't get you an apptmt, they want the student that is well rounded.

    Again, Congrats and I wish him well. Janie Raincloud will state that academically he is going against Ivy league and I hope that a CR of 540 and W of 600 was a fluke, or that he does not test well. It is hard to survive the SAs Ivy league classes on top of being a 4 dig when your scores are not deemed "qualified". They have a heck of a lot of reading and writing to do for their classes on top of memorizing the menu! Physical ability is an issue, but the English instructor does not care about how fast you run or how many sit ups you can do when he grades your term paper. Every cadet, including the ones that scored 700 will walk in with a fresh sheet. SAT's mean squat to them, but if you compare the scores nationally, it means that they have an edge academically, making their 1st yr easier. The fact is @10% will leave within their first yr at any SA. 25% will not graduate.

    I sound like Janie Raincloud, but I am just trying to highlight that any SA is the equivalent of any IVY, and harder. The cadet at an SA will not only be a student, but will be required to work. Stop and realize that. This is a very hard road, and I have always believed that too many get caught up in the allure of the SA without realizing the reality of the life cadets live.

    My last point to the class of 15, take the time and research the mandated classes. You can graduate in Econ, but you will still be forced to take AFA curriculum. That means taking engineering classes all 4 yrs. If you hate math/science buckle up!
    I am a second mom to an AFA cadet, and a mom to an ROTC cadet. Both of them choose wisely because their decisions were based on education and their majors, nothing else!

    Off topic it is interesting that USNA triple q'd him, offered an appointment, but the AFA deemed him non-qual academically. USNA has always been known to be the top of the SA's regarding academic quals. Their median scores are higher than the AFA regarding SAT/ACT
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  7. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

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    Pima, no offense taken. He was not a recruited athlete, but he is a very strong athlete. He maxed everything on CFA except the run. He has Varsity letters and team captain in football and baseball. A season ending injury dashed his hopes of playing football in college. He takes a very strong course load, honors and AP courses and has straight A's. He is also a class and Student Senate officer, was selected for Boys State, and then asked to return as a councelor (which he can't do because of report date to Navy.) He's been selected for many leadership awards, he's a natural leader. He is a bad test taker, like his Dad. His Dad went to the USAFA prep school because his test scores were too low. They had to test constantly, but he never got his verbal scores up high enough, but he finished #2 in his prep school class. Went on to USAFA, finished in top 15% of class, a blue chip scholar. Went to UPT, graduated number 1 in class, ATC commanders cup winner. I don't put alot of stock in test scores.
    Luckily USNA only looks at verbal and Math ACT, because he scored 32 Math, 30 verbal. (they didn't count his 23 CR against him) We have no idea why he scores so low in CR, he has taken online courses, we've bought cds. He has A's in his AP government class, so clearly he comprehends what he reads. He works hard for the grades he gets, but he's never had problems in school.
    He went to NASS and had a blast, and his leadership emerged there as well. After that week, he really shifted gears from wanting USAFA to leaning toward USNA. He had a pres. nom and was offered his appointment mid October.

    Also, USAFA didn't nonqual him academically, they said in October, he wasn't competitive for an appointment under his Presidential nom, but they are still looking at him under his MOC slate. At the time of the letter, they were telling him to retake his tests to try to increase his score if possible, and MOC noms hadn't come in yet. He may still end up with an appointment in the mass March mailing, but its a mute point since he has accepted his USNA offer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  8. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

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    I will add that I'm not at all worried about his being able to handle the course load. His Dad and I were both USAFA grads, we know the course load and also know the help thats available. If you try, and are willing to put in the effort, its hard to fail out. Like I said, he is use to hard work, the kids I've seen have problems are the ones that breezed thru high school and haven't had to learn how to study. Son knows how to study and gets results. My niece is now a Captain, and she had the sky high off the chart test scores, but struggled at USAFA because she never had to actually study before.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  9. the_yeti2351

    the_yeti2351 Member

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    Well, on the website I think it states that a 580 CR and a 560 M is considered COMPETITIVE....but nowhere does it state any minimum scores...so, does that mean you need a 580 CR and a 560 M to be a QUALIFIED candidate cuz theres no minimum scores anywhere :confused:
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    falcon, here is a quick question since both of you were AF, were both of you qualified to get a Presidential? If so, would he get 2 Pres noms (1 from you and 1 from your DH) or is it a 1x thing?

    Just curious.

    Did he get other noms besides the Pres? I would think the fact that he went to NASS and not SLS helped him get the USNA appt.

    Bullet and I went to ly's AF Vs Navy game and we laughed at how many AF parents we knew that had a child at USNA, we even joked with them about if they would wear their AF uniform to pin on their child...all of them said "hell yeah!"
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  11. agolson

    agolson Eagle43

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    Pima

    USNA has always been known to be the top of the SA's regarding academic quals.


    This statement is not substantiated by collegeboard. USAFA has the hightest SAT, ACT, GPA of all the service academies.
     
  12. agolson

    agolson Eagle43

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    Pima

    Also check out the class profile for 2013. USAFA vs USNA.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Regardless of AFA V USNA, they are both Ivy League. Their stat differences are min., and the fact is they both have high caliber students when it comes to academic records. My point is and will always be, there is a difference for a student who is a poor test taker/excellent student and the student who is not when it comes to their ability to survive day in day out at the SA's,

    Also falcon if he had the ACT scores that high, I am shocked that the AFA did not take those scores over his SAT. On our DS's online they had placed his ACT as the score for his file. He had 33 compared to 1390 out of 1600.

    I am LMAO because people give me crap for being staunch AFA over the other SA's and now I am being dogged for putting down the AFA compared to the USNA.

    Finally, I really don't care which is better academically because no cadet should go to any SA for academics over the other, they should go with the thought that they will spend at least 5 yrs in that branch. You may love Annapolis and its campus, but that will give you little joy when you are sitting on a boat for 5 yrs and you hate the water. Same is true for the AFA, if you want to be assigned to a base near a beach because you love the water, you will be a sorry pup when they send you to Mt. Home, Idaho!
     
  14. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

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    PIMA, My husband is still in, he's now a Reservist, but currently serving on an Active duty tour. I got out after 5. So son was only eligible for Pres under my husband (but could apply for both USNA and USAFA Pres. noms). When he went for his MOC interviews, he told them he already had a USNA appointment and only wanted to be concidered for an AF nom. (when he submitted his packages to MOCs he had put AF first when rank ordered) so he did get a MOC nom to USAFA

    AF is looking at his ACT scores, but they look at more than just verbal and math, they look at all the scores, and as mentioned earlier, that 23CR was too low to be competitive for AF, at least back in October against all the other Presidential noms. I have no idea how he stacks up against his Ohio slate

    Yes, I agree that his going to NASS vs SLS helped with his USNA appt. apparently he made a very good impression there.

    As you mentioned above, I really don't think a kid can go wrong with either of these. Idealy, son would like to fly, but his main goal is to serve his country, and will be happy pretty much anywhere he ends up.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I hope and wish him the best. I thank you and your family for serving our country.

    I know I will get flamed by others for this, but I think sometimes the military child is a stronger candidate. I say this because they have seen the "good, bad and ugly" regarding the military. They do not have the illusion of TOP GUN and Tom Cruise. They remember Mom changing the tire when it got a flat and Dad was deployed. They have had Thanksgivings, Easter and birthdays without a parent. There is no "allure" of the uniform or the SA. They have no fantasies that they will live in great places like Hickham, Hawaii and Aviano, Italy because they have already learned that chances are greater that they will live in places like Del Rio TX or Minot ND before they will make it there. They also know as far as our DS is concerned that the chances of flying a fighter is not locked in just because you go to he AFA.

    I am not saying military children are better officers or candidates, just that their life experience makes them see the military differently and to sign up for the next 9 yrs (SA + time owed) when you have spent the past 18 yrs living it, takes a true love of the military.
     
  16. stingre

    stingre Member

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    NASS

    Is Summer Seminar heavily weighed? I understand that 1/2 of the current plebe class attended Summer Seminar.
     
  17. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Where did you get that number, if I might ask?

    I would be AMAZED if it were that high.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  18. stingre

    stingre Member

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    I could be wrong, but I thought my son got it from his BGO..
     
  19. sandydandy

    sandydandy Member

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    Here's my 2 cents worth. I think the summer seminars are a great thing but it is not essential to attend them. My son was unable to attend any because they conflicted with his scout trip to Philmont. I personally think Philmont was a much better opportunity for my son.

    My daughter was not accepted to the summer seminars and I think it was partly because there were a large number of children from our area applying for them and partly because she was a late bloomer on the ACT/SAT tests. She received a pres. appt in early December however. Obviously not attending a summer seminar did not hurt her. My daughter attended Girl's State instead and some other camps that she was interested in.

    Summer seminars are fantastic for those kids that don't know anything about the SA's and are not sure whether a SA is the right place for them. The USNA counselor told me that many kids are using the summer seminars as a resume builder and never attend the SA's.
     
  20. stingre

    stingre Member

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    SS has to be worth something, don't you think? Especially if you excel there and embrace the academy experience.
     

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