Candidate slots?

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by civic29, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. civic29

    civic29 Member

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    I'm very confused on the 50% accepted from the qualified+nominated pool. If I'm not the number 1 in my district I understand there is a nwl, but I don't see how it could take half those nominated and qualified. Sure the numbers are higher when you add senatorial noms, but it just doesn't add up in my head. Can anyone clarify your true chance at this point in the game?


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  2. Kaners221

    Kaners221 Member

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    I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by what you are asking here and what part you are confused about but here it the link the class profile which briefly breaks down admissions statistics of this year. I think it should make sense for you in terms of the numbers after looking at that. If not, hopefully I can try and help.

    http://www.usma.edu/admissions/SitePages/Class Profiles.aspx
     
  3. civic29

    civic29 Member

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    The point that confuses me is that it seems as if usually 1-3 people get accepted from each district, but the 50% seems high to me. Shouldn't it be around 25-35%?


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  4. EagleScout13

    EagleScout13 USMA Class of 2017

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    You are looking at it from a district perspective. I came from TN-07 (now TN-08) and we had 67 people apply, 10 nominated, and 3 get it. So yes in some districts it may seem either high (ex: some places in Virginia perhaps Texas, nearly all 10 candidates nominated were accepted), or low (ex: my buddy from North Dakota may be one of the few in my class here), but ultimately the numbers don't lie. In addition, if we had the statistics on ROTC nominations, Presidential nominations, VP nominations, prior service nominations, and the like, we would see which areas bring the average higher. Having spoken with numerous admissions officers here, it seems year after year the number of prior enlisted spots at West Point and USMAPS never are fully filled, so if a prior receives a commander's endorsement and is qualified in all 3 pillars, then perhaps he/she is nominated and subsequently appointed at a surprisingly high percentage. I do not know the full details, but the percentage is correct.
     
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  5. Kaners221

    Kaners221 Member

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    The profile says that roughly 50% of all those who are nominated and are triple qualified (officially) by USMA will be offered an appointment. Each Congressman / woman or Senator can only have up to 5 people at each individual Academy at one point, so I mean I would say 3 from a district (unless some are appointed on a Senatorial nomination or Presidential and therefor not counting towards the Reps. numbers) is rather unlikely.

    The up to ten that are appointed by each MOC often are all not 3Q'd.

    I hope that helped a little bit.
     
  6. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

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    The slot winner is the only person on a MOC'S slate that counts towards the 5 allowed at WP. The rest go on the NWL and do not count towards the MOC's allotment.
    For example (and let's keep it simple and say no one has a LOA), if a Congressional MOC nominates 10 candidates and 7 are fully qualified. One of those 7 fills the slot (either by P-nom or highest WCS) and that person counts towards the MOC's total number at WP. The other 6 go on the NWL and get their slot from that (not the MOC). If 4 of those 7 receive appointments, then 5 from that MOC's slate receive appointments but only 1 is credited to fill the MOC's slot. The other 3 are QNS.
    Based solely on this MOC's slate (discounting the Senator slates) , 5 from that district would receive appointments but only one would be credited to the MOC.
     
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  7. civic29

    civic29 Member

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    What is the competition like on the NWL? I know its about 200 slots give or take from previous post, but since some are taken by LOA recipients and the rest are on the national level I am guessing it is very difficult? I have heard those who are "fully qualified" with nom+3q have a much higher chance than 50% ,but I can never be sure. Last year my district has only one out of a full slate go, makes me nervous.
     
  8. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I think you're a bit confused, or perhaps I'm misreading your post. The only people on the NWL are folks who, as you describe, are "fully qualified" with a nom+3Q. Further, the 50% figure is all fully qualified applicants with a nom who are appointed, regardless of the nomination source or what sub-segment they are appointed from (eg. MOC slate or NWL).
     
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  9. wiscogirl

    wiscogirl Member

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    The message that I recieved implied that everyone who is 3Q with a nomination goes on the NWL. I have 4 nominations to USMA, yet I'm still on the NWL...
     
  10. 845something

    845something Member

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    BLUF: statistics lie and this process is much too complex to draw anything but generalities from the available information. Control what you can.

    All fully qualified (3Q) with a nomination go on a wait list. Call it national if you want, but it's not like other colleges where there is a rank order because of the different nominating sources. Not as many candidates reach fully qualified as you would think. Many MOC will give nominations to candidates that have not opened a file (preferred another SA but didn't make the cut or are just ignorant to the actual process), or that they know have no chance of being qualified but they either don't have enough other qualified candidates or they want to grease the squeaky wheel. Some won't finish, and some won't qualify academically. Concurrently, the RCs are looking at who has a legitimate chance at winning a district/vacancy and are only requesting medical waivers for the most likely. So even some candidates that could become 3Q won't because they won't receive consideration for a medical waiver (whole other discussion, but it is a triage issue to cope with limited assets). This is how you really neck down from the 4400 or so that receive nominations to the 2500ish that are fully qualified.

    Each nomination source is it's own competition. Yes, a MOC can nominate 10, but many of the service connected nominations are unlimited so it creates different competition levels. For instance, there are 100 presidential vacancies each year (sons and daughters of career military), and there are usually 7-800 nominations against those. On the surface, it looks like better odds than a district, but it is a national competition. The top end is full of talent, often with candidates that have known this is what they wanted to do for college before they left elementary school and have built the file to support it. The key is to get every nomination you can to better your chances in each of those mini-competitions for an appointment before trying to compete nationally.

    The easiest way to think about the Qualified Alternates (correct term for the top 150 off of the wait list) is that they select them after all the nominations are filled. That's a simplification as some will be offered before all vacancies are filled as they are clearly top candidates often outperforming most district winners. Admissions must also maintain a 3-1 MOC-Service Connected ratio for QA and Alternate Appointee selections. The Alternate Appointees come off the wait list as well but aren't necessarily at the top (USMAPS that aren't Soldiers, recruited athletes, etc) and can end up counting for several hundred spots in a class.

    With all the nominating sources and alternates, and you CAN end up with multiple appointees from one district. For an average class of 1250, each of the 435 districts can expect 2.8 candidates on average. Statistics lie. Some districts might use two vacancies, smaller states are more likely to have candidates picked up by a senator, some places will have many come off the national list and or service connected nominations. Anywhere from 0 to 20 something (for like a VA-10 pentagon area district) come in from each district.

    Basing chances on anecdotal information (n=1) is not reliable either. In the end, speculation on chances based on broad percentages has no impact on your actual chances. You'll never see behind the curtain to know where you actually are on the wait list. Control what you can -

    1) apply for every nominating source available
    2) finish your application early
    3) keep updating your application all the way through the file completion deadline even if you are already qualified
    4) reply quickly and thoroughly to any request from your RC, FFR, MOC, etc
    5) follow any specific instructions that they give you
    6) have a plan B
     
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  11. civic29

    civic29 Member

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    Nwl hasn't started yet, you're mentioning your 3q letter which says ALL candidates or in a waiting list and most appointments will be tendered between February and May. Don't worry about that yet.


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  12. billyb

    billyb Member

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    This is perhaps the best advice you will ever receive in terms of your academic and work life. I have been out of the Army for awhile and I saw this in my time as a junior officer as well as in the corporate world. People, of all ages, spend WAY too much time worrying about things that they can have no impact on at all. Spend that energy becoming a better you and bettering the people around you. Ex: get a better grade on your next test, study a more for your ACT, do a better job on a project at work, visit with your soldiers on your free time and invest in their lives, etc.... If the activities you are doing have the end in mind then everything else will take care of itself.
     
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  13. JakeFromWisco

    JakeFromWisco Member

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    If you don't mind me asking, where are your four nominations from? I am in WI-08, and was nominated by my Representative as well as Sen. Baldwin. Got a letter form Sen. Johnson saying that because of Wisconsin MOC policy, he would not also be nominating me in order to increase the number of possibly Academy attendees from Wisconsin. Again, just curious. And congratulations! Four nominations is quite the feat.
     
  14. civic29

    civic29 Member

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    Great post thank you!


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  15. wiscogirl

    wiscogirl Member

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    Thanks! I have a Presidential, Representative (WI-03), and Sen. Baldwin nominated me on two different slates because she has two vacancies this year. At first, I thought it was a technical error or glitch on my portal but she has two spots available. Additionally, Sen. Johnson sent me that letter as well.
     
  16. JakeFromWisco

    JakeFromWisco Member

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    Ahh, very nice! I had the same situation with Sen. Baldwin, and figured that it was a glitch as well.

    I am honestly curious how many people actually wanted West Point in Wisconsin this year. During all my interviews and attending Academy Days in Oshkosh, I only met one other individual who put West Point as their number one. USNA seems to have a multitude of applicants. Oh well. Less competition for the both of us. Best of luck to you! Hope to see you on R-day!
     

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