Career Limitations for Women?

ski:

My DD is USNA 2012 (if you couldn't guess). Here are some of your current options for service after graduation from USNA (woman's perspective):
- USMC: (DD's desire) - You can go either "ground" or "air." If you go USMC ground, you can be a combat engineer, or any support field. No limits in any aviation field other than those based on your height/weight/other body stats. My 5'3" DD is eligible to fly all but two USMC platforms.
- SWO: No limits
- Subs: Only 11 slots for women this year. They are begging guys to choose subs, but competition is fierce for the few women's slots.
- Medical: Only 25 slots allowed by law/regulation, but only 10-15 have actually been allowed the past few years. Very tough competition, with most selectees surviving being chemistry majors.
- Aviation: Only limits are height/weight/other body stats based on platform (aircraft) requirements. Can be either a pilot or Naval Flight Officer.
- EOD/diver: Women are allowed in these fields, but NOT in SEALs

IOW, out of USNA, for one, you have many career choices.
 
Need to check

Okay, this is embarrassing -- I did a quick google search to confirm that women can fly Air Force Special Operations helicopters and the top return was my own blog! Duh, I don't know the answer for sure; if I'm the expert, then that's embarrassing!

A few other search returns brought up some very UNRELIABLE to downright false information. Hint: beware the responses you get on Yahoo Answers; there is a reason they are called "yahoos."

I know this for sure: In the Air Force, the "boots on the ground" special forces, PJs, are enlisted, so you would not qualify as an Academy grad. Women can go into intelligence and Command Post career fields, and could be assigned to the Special Operations Wing. But I get the feeling that you are thinking of door busting, air support type special ops jobs. That leaves Combat Controllers (CCT), weather forecasters (who knew?) and MC-130 and helicopter pilots. I was not allowed to do those jobs, although I did get to transport some SEAL ships in a C-141. I was not allowed to look at their ships, ask them questions, or even confirm they were SEALs (I'm not stupid--they were SEALS). I think MC-130s are now open to women, but I am not sure, and they are not available to every pilot training class.

So this is who you email to get the actual answer:

Special Tactics has three career fields open to qualified offier candidates: Combat Rescue Officer, Special Tactics Officer, and Special Operations Weather Officer. To learn more about these career fields, e-mail afsoc.pa@hurlburt.af.mil and a Special Tactics Recruitment Liaison will contact you.

Or Call Point of Contact
Air Force Special Operations Command Public Affairs Office | 229 Cody Ave, Suite 103 | Hurlburt Field, Fla. 32544-5312 | (850) 884-5515 | DSN 579-5515 | afsoc.pa@hurlburt.af.mil


Best of Luck to you! If you ever get a MC-130 slot, be sure to contact me via my blog so I live vicariously through you.
 
As far as I know AFSOC pilot slots are open to both genders (after speaking with a female AC-130 pilot).
 
Weren't allowed to talk to the SEALs? That's weird. While often members of the special operations community don't like faces photographed, in general, they like talking, and while some equipment may be classified, I've taken plenty of photos of boats (don't think they have "ships", they generally ride).
 
Weren't allowed to talk to the SEALs? That's weird. While often members of the special operations community don't like faces photographed, in general, they like talking, and while some equipment may be classified, I've taken plenty of photos of boats (don't think they have "ships", they generally ride).

This.

And as for AFSOC...

There's nothing they do that should preclude women. Don't even get me started on "Special Operations Weather."
 
Times have Changed (thank goodness)

Weren't allowed to talk to the SEALs? That's weird. While often members of the special operations community don't like faces photographed, in general, they like talking, and while some equipment may be classified, I've taken plenty of photos of boats (don't think they have "ships", they generally ride).

Dear LineInTheSand,
This would have been after Grenada, which created big tension over the Navy special ops unit being unable to communicate with the AF and Army due to incompatible radio frequencies, and before 1986. Lots of guys still resented women military pilots and did not think we were worth talking to. So my loadmasters load up the tarp-covered fast boat, (were there two? I don't recall) and before departure,as is my normal procedure, I go back to look at the cargo and talk with my loadmasters. I asked to look under the tarp, and what their mission was because our destination wasn't close to any water that I knew about, and was given the standard line of "If I told you I would have to shoot you." Then their leader came up to me and asked if I would keep my crew on the flight deck for the mission. Now I presume they had wanted to do some more operational planning. Overall, their attitude was cockier and more petulant than I find in today's special forces.
 
Here is the answer from Air Force Special Operations Command Public Affairs: women cannot serve on Special Tactics Teams (Combat Controllers, Special Operations Weather Technicians, or pararescue) and we cannot be Tactical Air Control Party (TACP) (called Forward Air Controllers in my ancient days). Women can, however, occupy any AF special operations flight position.

Don't forget that there are plenty of interesting operational career fields that are not Special Operations. And do you know the real definition of a combat position? "You get to shoot back."
 
And, as they found out, the support billets (the ones first opened to women) are the ones often most vulnerable. Especially the tankers. Break the supply line and . . .
 
And, as they found out, the support billets (the ones first opened to women) are the ones often most vulnerable. Especially the tankers. Break the supply line and . . .

Have we lost any AF tankers to hostile fire?
 
Three KC-135 two in 68 and one in 69. Non combat but probably mechanical failure brought them down over over Laos. Loved those big blips on the screen and getting the strike force to the target and home with a full tank. F-4 with full load needed refuel after takeoff and reaching cruising altitude and KC-135 was orbiting and waiting. Knew some FAC'S at NKP they were some great guys.
 
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Arc Lights were also fun to watch as they formed up. Think KC's were "Anchor Flights" and were way outside hostile zone far from Vinh Airfield which was about sixty miles away accross the Karsk and Laos.
 
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Have we lost any AF tankers to hostile fire?
Scoutpilot:
I think USNA1985 was probably referring to tanker trucks for refueling ground vehicles, that frequently move in convoys with other supply and maintenance vehicles. Jessica Lynch, a supply clerk, and Shoshana Johnson, a cook, were both captured during Operation Iraqi Freedom when their units' convoys were attacked.
 
Speaking of women and aerial refueling......

All-female crew takes flight as refueling mission goes 'unmanned'

BY MELISSA MURPHY / THE REPORTER
Posted: 08/20/2011
http://www.thereporter.com/ci_18723017?source=most_viewed

An "unmanned" Air Force KC-10 extender jet flew over Southwest Asia earlier this month on a refueling mission.
In a mostly male field, it's often that crews are staffed with men and rarely have women in control.

However, that all changed when two women from Travis Air Force Base and two women from the Joint Base
McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst in New Jersey joined together at the 908th Expeditionary Air Refueling Squadron
in Southwest Asia to make the refueling mission truly "unmanned."

"It was awesome," said 1st Lt. Jen Carter, who is from Fairfield. "It was great how well we worked together and
to see how crew members from different bases run the mission. It was exciting for me because we rarely fly
with even one other female on the crew."

20110820__news_50~P2.jpg

The deployment environment usually is a mostly male world. For a day though, a deployed
KC-10 Extender crew made it an all-female day, as all four crew positions were held by women, truly
making their mission "unmanned." Seen are Capt. Lindsey Bauer, 908th EARS, KC-10 aircraft commander,
1st Lt. Jen Carter, 908th EARS, KC-10 pilot, and Staff Sgt. Sarah Lockley, who is the only female KC-10
flight engineer. (Staff Sgt. Patrick Mitchell / U.S. Air Force photo/Staff Sgt. Patrick Mitchell)
 
The sad "surprise" about all this?

My wife flew a KC-135A with an all female crew during both Desert Shield and Desert Storm on more than one mission.

While not "completely common" it's not rare either. Women have been a hugely critical part of the air refueling community for a LOOOONG time...as long as I've been in the AF.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Scoutpilot:
I think USNA1985 was probably referring to tanker trucks for refueling ground vehicles, that frequently move in convoys with other supply and maintenance vehicles. Jessica Lynch, a supply clerk, and Shoshana Johnson, a cook, were both captured during Operation Iraqi Freedom when their units' convoys were attacked.

Yeah, I figured. Seemed odd to be talking about AF tankers that way, though that's where the discussion was at that point.

I'm pretty well aware of how convoys work and what moves where, thanks.
 
The sad "surprise" about all this?

My wife flew a KC-135A with an all female crew during both Desert Shield and Desert Storm on more than one mission.

While not "completely common" it's not rare either. Women have been a hugely critical part of the air refueling community for a LOOOONG time...as long as I've been in the AF.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

Perhaps they were referring to the uniqueness of it happening on a KC-10, as there is only one female KC-10 flight engineer in the entire USAF (according to the article).

Lockley is the only female KC-10 flight engineer in the Air Force, according to military officials, which makes it almost impossible for flight crews to be made up of all women on a mission.
 
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