CFA - I Gotta Ask... Really?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by F15DOC, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. F15DOC

    F15DOC Member

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    OK, so going over the CFA with my son, we are amazed, are these run times for real?
    Is everyone that is going to the academy a skinny runner?!
    My son is a super smart math physics whiz, 3 sport athlete (avg skill level) and 2 club president. Big guy who has made it to the varsity football squad this his senior year.
    He is a lineman, he is not a big fat flabby kid, but he is a big kid.
    No way in He## is this kid going to get through a mile anywhere close to 7 minutes, let alone 6.
    He may get a 7:30 and he will be working hard for it AFTER football season. The skinny runner body habitus results in poor blocking and your QBACK getting smashed by the defense, so that can't happen until after the season is over.
    So my question is (I know that nobody knows the mins), but will a 7:30 mile pass for him?
    Are there qualified candidates out there lurking that are willing to share their not so great CFA and yet they still passed and gained an appointment?
    He will be able to knock out 50-60 pushups and situps after some training.... but the run scores I keep seeing make me shake my head... candidates are posting "I ran a 5:50, is that good enough?"... really?
    Seems crazy that the AVERAGE run was listed as 6:13.... no way.... no way...
    Any thoughts to this heading shaking dad?
     
  2. liger98

    liger98 Member

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    The average I believe is actually around 6:30. The Service Academies don't release minimum scores to the public btw. And no, not every I saw at the academy was super skinny. During NASS, all the guys in my squad (except for me) were huge football players. They ran about a 7:00 mile except for one who ran a 6:20 mile. Now I've had friends who've ran 5 minute miles normally (they're on track) but during the CFA, they ran an 8 minute mile. I know for sure that a 7:30 mile is failing during the PRT in the academic year when they have to run 1.5 miles in 10:30 (thats a 7 minute mile pace). Try to get around 7 minutes. It's all cardio (I've had pretty chubby unathletic friends who could do it) and it's mostly a mental challenge. I use Insanity workout and that instantly brought my mile time sub-7 minutes but if you decide to use Insanity, you'll have to supplement it with calisthenics to do the pushups and the sit-ups.
     
  3. F15DOC

    F15DOC Member

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    Thanks liger98 that is good info, haven't seen the Insanity workout, he will just have to work hard and maybe pick up his running during the season....
    By the way, the person you mentioned that ran an 8 minute CFA, did they get into the academy?
     
  4. liger98

    liger98 Member

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    He's applying this year but I'm pretty sure he's going to have to take the CFA again. He didn't tell me if the Academy labeled him as "At Risk" or "No Risk" (why would he, it's pretty personal) but I think they told us that failing one event results in a total fail. Not entirely sure about that however. The max is 5:20, 8 minutes is a bit too long in my opinion, especially since I was told to improve my mile time (about 6:20) by the Academy when I emailed them asking them how to improve. Maybe one of the BGO or one of the veteran posters have more information about this topic.
     
  5. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    If you look through some old posts you will see some folks in the 7:30 realm and even some towards 8 that passed. None of them
    publish Minimums. Just a note to think about. Running the mile for a CFA is one thing but really do some google searches for each SA he is applying to and research the actual PT test they take each semester. At USNA we run 1.5 miles, 2 mins of push ups and 2 mins of sit ups. The minimum passing time for males is 10:30. That is a 7 minute pace. I have seen 250 lb guys at USNA pass this test. Passing the CFA is one thing, but also look at the long term for education and what the future could hold.
     
  6. F15DOC

    F15DOC Member

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    Great info NavyHoops!
    He will, of course, work hard and perform as well as he can on the CFA... his scores will not be minimal effort, just seems crazy fast for those average run times...
    I am pretty sure he is going to slim way down after Football and will become more of a runner over time, I can pass the USAF Fit Test but I am an old guy and my run time requirements are way slower now :)
     
  7. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I passed with an 8:11 and I'm male. That is the slowest time I have ever seen pass.
     
  8. F15DOC

    F15DOC Member

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    Frenzy, thanks for the info, is there something else about your application that was particularly compelling or extraordinary that led to the academy accepting you with a run time below most?
     
  9. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I have not been accepted(yet), I simply passed the CFA. The rest of my CFA was pretty good though. I did 14 pull ups and ran an 8.2 shuttle run. I messed up and drank a bunch of water right before I ran the mile(I usually run it in about 6:20) and I felt like I was going to throw up the entire time I was running, so I'm retaking it next week to get a better score.

    But honestly, I don't think doing poorly on the CFA impacts your chances very much as long as you pass. It's only 10% of your application. On the same token, I don't think doing extremely well on the CFA will impact your chances very much either. WCS is out of 8000(I think). If you get a max CFA you get 800 points. Even if you get the bare minimum on every section you will probably get around a 400. So it really isn't something that will make or break your application(unless you fail it, if you fail it your chances of getting in go to 0).
     
  10. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    CFA is important but as long as you pass that's they key. It's 1 of the Qs to being 3Q. He plays lots of sports which shows he is athletic. I think for someone who doesn't play any sports, the CFA anecdotally plays a larger role.
     
  11. F15DOC

    F15DOC Member

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    All good info, thanks guys, and good luck on your retest frenzy, post on here with your new scores just so we know!
     
  12. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    Exactly right NavyHoops IRT the CFA impact. Also note a 10:30 PRT is a D----.
    The CFA was built knowing that each event is staggered, so that an individual might not reach their actual potential on successive events.
     
  13. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    I would venture to guess that the CFA may be playing a more important role in Admissions today vs. even a few years ago for two reasons. First, there are fewer spots in today's classes (due to decreased attrition) so competition is more keen and every little thing matters more. Second, the #2 reason people leave USNA (after "not really wanting to be there") is failing the 1.5 mile run in the PFT. While the CFA isn't determinative in how someone will do in the PFT as a mid, it could raise red flags.

    The above said, someone who otherwise does very well on the CFA, has a strong sports background, and also may be on the larger side (build, not fat), will likely be cut some slack. Also, don't forget that, if you're not satisfied with your scores, you can retake the CFA until Jan. 31.
     
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  14. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American

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    Again, it falls to admissions. If they want you, an 8 minute mile is good enough. If they don't, a 5 minute mile might not be good enough.

    While we'ew talking CFA, does anyone else out there believe some kids fudge on the CFA?

    I have personally witnessed boys at the academy that could not do more than 1 pull up. I've seen girls that couldn't do a 10 second arm hang. I've seen kids that were obviously WAY out of shape on I Day. Low pushups, some just soft and overweight. I've wondered how they succeeded in the ultra competitive application process.

    I know they will be challenged to pass the PRT or PFT later, and they might work very hard to do so. I just wonder if the academy overlooked their CFA scores, or if maybe their desire to be,accepted led them to seek out "uncle Bob" to administer the test, or had a sympathetic mentor that bumped up the scores?

    Don't flame me, I love all the kids...

    Just wondering.
     
  15. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    The CFA forms must be completed by gym/PE teachers, commissioned officers or BGOs. Thus, if "fudging" is going on, these are the folks who are doing it. Am I naive enough to believe it doesn't happen? No. But I believe it's rare.

    What can explain what you saw at USNA is the following: kids are in great shape during the summer/ac year when they are heavily involved in school or outside sports. Come April, these stop. There are senior projects, beach week, vacation, etc. Many kids don't work out (or don't work out as much) during this time, so that the kid who was in terrific shape in March is out of shape come July 1. That's why many BGOs "beat on" their appointed candidates to keep up their workouts in the weeks before I-Day.
     
  16. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Agree, that the CFA can make or break some candidates and others it might not weigh as much. Having a proctor who is a very easy grader can definitely help a candidate. Do I think some have out right lied... maybe. I hope not, but I am sure there are 1 or 2 every year who somehow do. I think this is why a CFA can weigh more for a candidate who doesn't do any sports. Also I think alot of kids in high school sports think that is enough to keep them in shape, its not. Even a kid who runs sub 5 minute miles in cross country needs to work on core and upper body strength. Many swimmers tend to break once they get on land. They need to do more and some kids don't understand this until they get to USNA. A 10:30 PRT run time is a pretty decent pace, especially if you are not a runner. Also once Plebe Summer is up, no one is there making them work out. It takes some Mids awhile to learn that they have to make an effort to work out daily and keep on top of things.
     
  17. Joedoe

    Joedoe Member

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    The PRT run is a 1.5 mile run, btw.
    Is your son planning on playing football in college? Or is he being recruited to play at USNA? Not sure if this would impact his CFA run time, but some football players do get waivers for weight and the running portion of the PRT. I known some bike instead.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I don't believe they fudge. I believe that many administrators are lenient to form for the CFA. IOWS they count anything and everything for a sit up or push up.

    Look on the ROTC forums come September. Many scholarship recipients bust that 1st PFA because they now have to do the true military form. The PE/ROTC instructor counted a sit up, but they won't at USNA, any SA or ROTC unit.

    What gets me here is the run. I feel like many are not reading the big thing...it will be 1 1/2 mile. 8 minute male equals a fail because theoretically it will be over 12 minutes. Running 1 mile at 7:30 is different than running another 1/2 mile at the same pace. You can get slower with distance.
    ~ My DS is not a runner. He has the frame. thin and lanky. Just hates running. He maxxed everything, but running. However he made sure he could run no less than a 7:15 mile. Why? Fear of that 1 1/2 mile run. He ran in the rain, he ran when it was 96 degrees at 5 p.m., ran in the winter when it was 30 degrees, ran at 6 a.m.

    As a military dependent child, he knew that this would be in his life for the next 4 years, regardless of weather, lack of sleep, or any excuse he could make. That is just the way it was going to be.
     
  19. gonavy14

    gonavy14 Member

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    Honestly, a 7 min mile isn't that fast. I'd say the average PRT time for the 1.5 is probably 9:20 (for guys). Just remember your son is going to the Academy to be in the military primarily, and football should be secondary. Looks at the some pictures comparing Navy players to say, Notre Dame players. There's a very noticeable size difference.

    In response to "Is everyone that is going to the academy a skinny runner?!":

    No, but they are in shape (or at least should be). You should be able to do a 10:30 minimum mile and a half easily without being a skinny runner. Just keep running and your times will go down.
     
  20. F15DOC

    F15DOC Member

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    He is not that good at football... varsity his senior year but no where near Division 1 skillset....
     

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