CFA

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by acho97, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. acho97

    acho97 Member

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    One if my friends who got in the the USAFA as part of the class of 2019 told me that they kind of ignored the CFA scores last year. His brother was also appointed but apparently got 20 under the average and still got in. I just wanted to clarify that this information is true and was womdering if that was just for last year? I'm not trying to be lazy. Trust me. I just thought it would be useful information to know.
     
  2. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    If you don't pass the CFA you cannot receive an appointment.
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Not true frenzy, unless it has changed. It is not like the DoDMERB DQ and no waiver.

    The way it works is the CFA will be part of the Whole Candidate Score (WCS). It is a % of a %. Now if you BUST one section of the CFA, than in their eyes you busted the entire exam and will get no points.
    ~ You would not be deemed 3 Q

    If your other portions are knocked out of the ball park, and your WCS is the highest on the slate or you get principal, or an LOA with a nom., than you will get appointed.

    Now for reality. USAFA really looks at the CFA because they know that the alt. level is an issue during BCT. It does not change the % for the WCS. If you can only do 3 pull ups on your CFA, chances are you will bust the exam, even if you run a 6 min. mile. Same as if you can do 18 pull ups, but you can only throw the BBall 25 feet.
    ~ However, they may deem you competitive and reopen your CFA. This is a fair warning sign they want you to do better.

    I am too tired to look it up, Flieger and Christcorp can probably tell you the % that it accounts for regarding the CFA. I want to say overall it might be single digits for the WCS.

    Now let me stress 1 thing. You want to max it, because this is something you have control over regarding points.
    Not maxxing, to me, means you left points on the table. It can mean the difference from winning the MOC appointment/charge and being sent to the National Pool. It can be that close that a % of a % is the make of break.

    They will never tell you the mins., but you can easily find the maxes.

    acho,

    20 under what? BBALL? Situps? Pushups? Were they looking at the max scores?
    ~ IE 100 is BBALL. 80 is strong and not a bust.

    I don't believe they ever publicly announce the avg. I could be wrong. I believe the only thing they ever announce is the max.
    ~ Flieger and Christcorp, as ALOs can tell you for sure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  4. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    If you fail the CFA you will be disqualified. If you are disqualified you cannot receive an appointment. I don't understand what you are trying to say in the 2nd sentence. Are you saying that you can get a waiver for a failed CFA?

    It says on the Air Force Academy website under CFA that "Below-average performance may be disqualifying." It also says that the test is pass-fail. The averages and maxes are on the Air Force Academy website too.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Read your own post.
    The key words are MAY BE

    Not WILL BE.

    Just like they say a 24E or 490 V on the ACT/SAT MAY BE deemed non-competitive.

    There are some, probably not a lot that will move forward. There is no waiver. Either you passed or you failed.

    I am totally with you that they need to pass it to be considered 3Q. Academic, physical and medical.
    However, I am just saying this is their way to send a warning shot to candidates not to think that this should be blown off.

    20 under the avg does not equate into a FAIL.
    ~ I think that was your assumption.
    ~ Again, they do not post the fail. Let's say 75 BBall is avg for the class of 2019, but 50 is fail, than for the OP, their friends, did not fail, because they are at 55.

    I maybe 1000% off on this, but let's assume Sen. XYZ gives a principal to candidate Jones. If that candidate is medically qualified, than USAFA must appoint them. They could be deemed academically not qualified by USAFA terms on their website, but that is how the charging system world works.
    ~~ LOAs start rolling out in the summer, some get them before they submit their CFA.
    ~~~ I believe what they are told, if memory serves me correctly is that it is contingent upon submitting all parts of the application and a nomination.
    ~ Mike and Flieger will clarify that for us. Hence, their (USAFA) comment it MAY BE... not WILL or MUST BE.

    I think it really comes down to responding to the OPs post.
    ~ We don't know the particulars. Did they have an LOA? Were they a principal? How many times did they reopen the CFA?

    Back on topic

    Acho,
    What you have been told for last year was last year. You do not know the pool this year.

    Years ago USAFA only posted the max. They wanted candidates to not know the fail or avg. Go for the max. If you feel right now you are in the avg range for portions of the exam, than read through every CFA thread here, be it USAFA, USNA or USMA.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
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  6. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I think you are the one that needs to read my posts. I NEVER said "If you perform below average in a section you will be disqualified and you won't ve able to receive an appointment". That isn't even close to what I said. I said if you don't pass the CFA you won't be able to receive an appointment and you told me this was false. So I am really confused at what you are trying to say. First you say you can fail the CFA and still receive an appointment. Then you say you can't. Which is it?
    According to me in post 1:
    If you don't pass the CFA you cannot receive an appointment.

    According to you in post 2:

    If you don't pass the CFA you still receive an appointment.

    According to you in your last post:
    If you don't pass the CFA you cannot receive an appointment.


    I'm not sure if you understand what the site is trying to say. If you run the mile in 57 minutes, it's not a "you may be disqualified" it's a "you will be disqualified". The site WAS NOT trying to say that you may be disqualified if you fail the CFA. If you fail the CFA you WILL be disqualified and you WILL NOT receive an appointment. You can get a 36 ACT, be the valedictorian, captain 10 sports teams, and be the president of 50 clubs but if you fail the CFA you won't be appointed.
     
  7. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Frenzy and Pima, you're both in agreement. You just don't know it.

    1. Frenzy: "If you don't pass the CFA, you can't receive an appointment". TRUE!

    2. Pima: "Now if you BUST one section of the CFA, than in their eyes you busted the entire exam and will get no points." TRUE!
    *********************************
    Here's the deal. The academy posts the "AVERAGE" number of accomplished feats. E.g. pushups, situps, run time, etc. But they DON'T POST the "Minimum Required" passing scores. Why? Because the academy reserves the right to make this pass/fail score flexible based on the applicant's entire package.

    I have seen on some rare occasions, where the academy has offered an applicant a "RE-DO" on their CFA. The individual had a kick A$$ application, but they didn't do well "enough - in the academy's eyes" on the CFA. So, they offered them a re-test. This is not the norm, more the exception; and it's based on individual results of the candidate, their WCS, and the academy's goals and objectives.

    Remember, the CFA is designed to determine physical fitness. "Vs athletic/team requirements which is more designed to measure teamwork, dedication, commitment, etc. as well as fitness". The academy reserves the right to make this judgment subjective in either direction they want to. EXAMPLE: Female candidate from a Rocky Mountain state living above 6000 feet. Excellent athlete who is on the track team, cross country, and soccer teams. Very high cardio and obviously no problems breathing; especially in the altitude. Kick but GPA, ACT/SAT, leadership, bla bla bla. Does great on her CFA EXCEPT for pushups. She has absolutely no "trained" upper body strength. I say "Trained", because it doesn't mean she doesn't HAVE upper body strength, she just doesn't know how to use it properly to do things like pushups. Well, the academy can decide based on everything about her that I mentioned previously, that however many she DID DO,...... "Well, that's good enough". On the other hand, they could say, "Well, the average for a woman is 43, she can only do 25, if we can get her to do just a couple more, we'll take her"; so they offer her a retest.

    The point is, the academy is going to look at the ENTIRE CANDIDATE and their package. Everything about them, from their school, their family, where they live, their academics, leadership, etc. While it is true, that if you FAIL the CFA, you WON'T receive an appointment, the academy reserves the right, based on everything about you, to determine if you fail or not. And please don't ask: "Does that mean that the pass/fail standard can be different for different candidates". Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. And NO, I will not debate, argue, or even discuss this. Why don't you think the academy posts MINIMUM REQUIRED SCORES? Just "AVERAGE or MAXIMUM SCORES". Because, they will determine based on your entire package, if you did "GOOD ENOUGH" to pass. Think of it this way. Why do WOMEN and MEN have different average and maximum scores??? Because, physiologically, they are different. As such, by nature, they have different capabilities. But as an individual, they are able to compensate and make up for some deficiencies by excelling in some areas. Now, take this same LOGICAL thought, and expand it to more of the "INDIVIDUAL", irrelevant of their gender. Looking at the whole person.

    They can't simply say: "30 pushups is the minimum. Do only 29 and you are out of possible consideration. Even though you are on 3 varsity sports teams, captain of 2 of them, have a 4.0gpa, ranked #1 in your class and school, have a 33 ACT, are the class president, member of 2 other clubs, selected and attended girl's state, have 300+ hours of volunteer time, etc. But, you could only do 29 pushups, so..... YOU'RE OUT.

    Does that sound logical? No. That's why the academy reserves the right to make the "Minimum Standard" on the CFA flexible, and it's not posted. But Pima is also correct, that if the average pushups for a girl is 43, and the MINIMUM that they have decided on for this individual is 25, and this individual candidate can't even do 10, then there's an almost 100% chance that she WILL NOT PASS the CFA. And as Frenzy correctly stated, if you don't pass the CFA, then you can't receive an appointment. So that's kind of how it works. You MUST PASS the CFA. However, YOUR passing score, may be DIFFERENT than someone ELSE's passing score. (Based on EVERYTHING about you and your application).
     
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  8. Spud

    Spud BGO

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    "One if my friends who got in the the USAFA as part of the class of 2019 told me that they kind of ignored the CFA scores last year."

    What a solid gold source of information. In the Navy these guys are called Sea Lawyers and you need to stop listening to them.
     
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  9. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    It's kinda like
    "I know a guy who didn't pay his taxes or file even with the IRS and they ignored him."

    Or, perhaps more applicable: "I have a friend whose brother didn't pass Algebra II or English, and never played any sport, and had no leadership, and he got in!"

    ^^ this is just priceless.
     
  10. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Why would this be a useful information? Typically, if a candidate doesn't do good on the CFA, he or she ask for a retest. At least for West Point, even if a candidate receives a passing CFA, the regional commander time to time allows retest to give the candidate a chance to imporve.

    So being blunt, if the information is true ("ignored the CFA scores last year"), it will be only useful to candidates who haven't taken the test yet or candidates thinking about retesting.
     
  11. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    The individual applying to Air Force can't ask for a retest. Once you submit your scores, that's it. That's why we recommend that you practice until you feel you've reached your best scores, then you take the test. Once submitted, that's it. All done.

    The academy on the other hand, can OFFER you a retest. I have seen this on ocassion. While definitely not the norm, the academy has done this. Just like the applicant can't request or apply to the prep school, but the academy can offer it. An individual applying to Air Force can't ask for a retest. But it might be offered to them. Assuming, the rest of your application is kick butt, and the academy really thinks they want you. Then they might offer you a retest.
     
  12. 1A951

    1A951 New Member

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    Took the CFA today and basically bombed most of it.. Turns out doing the whole test in sequence is a lot harder than simply practicing the individual events. Scores are as follows: 74' basketball throw, 7 pull-ups, 8.8 second shuttle run, 44 sit-ups, 48 push-ups, 7.54 mile time. As many of you have already said, nobody really knows what the "minimum" scores are.. My question is if these scores are below minimum, will the AFA let me continue on my merry way with the application until they turn me down after my whole package has been submitted? Or will they let me know I failed earlier, possibly via my portal, and that will be that.
     
  13. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    Have you had the CFA submitted yet?
     
  14. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    For others please do note: 1A951's experience is telling. Practice for the CFA by doing the individual parts in sequence.
     
  15. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Frenzymando,

    You need to stop implying or suggesting that the candidate controls when or what the CFA result will be submitted or not.

    I might be in the minority, but when I administer a CFA, it's is either for record or practice. If it is for record, I will submit it regardless even if the candidate asks me to not submit it.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    +1 Member

    Our DS had someone like you. It was:
    ~ Are you sure you want to do this, because once it is done I will submit before you get back home. There was No, don't submit my scores option.
    ~~ Also, please let's remember only specific people can administer this exam. They have a life too, job, family and other candidates, if a coach at school, than games too. Everytime they administer this exam it is an hour out of their life. Think about it...they will meet up with you maybe 15 minutes before the exam, administer it, than submit it.

    Honestly, I would say to any and every candidate. practice it in the manner it will be administered, including rest times prior to taking it with an administrator. 1A951 illustrates why you need to practice it 1st.
    ~ Practice it also in all types of weather too. Sunny and 75 degrees may result in different scores than 65 and spitting mist.

    Look, the fact is you will do a CFA if appointed, or a PFA if you go ROTC fairly shortly after arriving. Unless the weather is insane you will take it. In AFROTC they must take the PFA every semester, and typically it is administered at 6-6:30 a.m. January in NJ or Michigan is not going to be fun for the run. August in Alabama with 95% humidity is not fun either. Hence, practice, practice, practice.
    ~ We were mean parents. We made our DS run before school. Reason why was it meant he did it early in the a.m.. He could do a 7 min. mile or less at 4 after school on his 1st shot out, but it took him weeks to get to that level when he had to roll out of bed at 6 a.m. to get to that level because he was tired.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
  17. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    All I'm trying to say is if it hasn't been submitted yet his administrator might be willing to not submit it so it might be a good idea to ask the administrator about it. His administrator might do the same thing as you, he/she might not do the same thing as you.
     
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  18. USAFA83GradWife

    USAFA83GradWife Member

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    I think frenzymondo is asking a good question. I know for a fact that some administrators will only submit the CFA if the candidate is happy with the results. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, nor saying that I agree or disagree. I'm just stating a fact.
     
  19. 1A951

    1A951 New Member

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    Yes, my evaluator submitted it yesterday. Today it shows complete on my portal just like all of the other steps
     
  20. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    My DDs CFA was administered by her ALO and she was given a choice to submit the scores or wait and take it again. She chose to send them in because her due date was fast approaching and she did not want to take the chance of scoring less if she waited, and then have to submit the new scores. It can be a difficult decision, even if you do well and want to improve. She only had 2 more weeks until the deadline and did not think she could improve much more, maybe a few pushups or situps. If you postpone, you don't know whether or not you will be sick, whether the weather will cooperate :) etc. According to the documentation in the candidate kit, all scores must be submitted within 48 hours of taking the test.

    So, to echo what everyone else is saying, practice the entire test in the proper order as many times as you can before taking it for real. It is the one thing that you have entire control over and you will do as well as the effort you put into it to prepare. Aim high!
     

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