Changes at USNA

Discussion in 'Service Academy Parents' started by USNA69, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    There seem to be a lot of rumblings coming out of Annapolis about changes in the way things are being done by the new administration. My retired Master Chief plebe parent thinks they are great.

    All I have heard is rumors. Anyone got any good gouge that they might want to share with the forum??
     
  2. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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  3. SubSquid

    SubSquid Member

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    I'm sure he came into the command with specific sailing orders detailing the areas that had been identified as needing improvement. When my son did his CVW in March, I was astonished with the numbers of MIDN on liberty, in town, on a Thursday night during an academic semester.

    "The slight deprivations midshipmen will experience at the Annapolis institution are nothing compared to eight-month tours at sea or ever-extended duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, he said."

    Agree. These "deprevations" are nothing compared to a Port/Starboard watch standing, GQ for hours, drills and the constant strain of shipboard life on war footing deployment.

    "New slogans are coined, new rules are issued, old ones suddenly focused on," said Bruce Fleming, an English professor at the academy for 20 years. "After a few years, they're gone and the cycle starts again. It would be better if they came in and got the feel of the place for a while."

    Sorry, I'm intemporate with academics: JUST SHUT UP!!!!

    "Another change could be a major reduction in sailing instruction, which Rempt had beefed up as a way to teach leadership; it culminated in a two-week summer sailing cruise when boats manned mostly by midshipmen would travel to and from Annapolis and Newport, R.I."

    Disagree-I am a sail-sailor too and understand the lessons that sailing teaches: An enduring knowledge of the power of current, wind, and weather on a ship/boat in the ocean; The need to look over the horizon and close aboard for the hazzard that may cause harm to your ship; The need to issue and take orders with confidence and resolve to manuver your craft in all circumstances.

    Bottom line: Improvement.
     
  4. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Don't recognize the name Bruce Fleming. He must be new. There has to be a list passed around the DC area by reporters of a list of profs guaranteed to say stupid things every time they are interviewed.

    I agree with you about the sailing and it is one of the few things I don't understand at all. I do know that one of the Luters has been delivered to Puget Sound for the West Coast ROTCs. Don't know if it is an old one or if he is already decimating the fleet.

    Maybe it is an organization thing. During my son's day, they went to Nova Scotia. The firstie on board did not know a lot about sailing. My son who had sailed big boats his entire life "ran" the boat and brought back a boat that had more duct tape than anything else holding it together. The squadron commander was a classmate of mine, and for the following several years, every time he saw me, he simply shook his head side to side. There was not a lot of discipline and organization learned on that boat that particular summer. I have no idea if this was in any way typical.
     
  5. RetNavyHM

    RetNavyHM USN (RET)

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    The best quote in the article is this one:

    "We are being treated like children, not soon-to-be officers," said one midshipman, who asked not to be named because he wasn't authorized to speak to a reporter. "Even enlisted sailors don't get treated like this."

    Well I hate to break it to that young midshipmen, in the past some of the midshipmen acted like children, and when one screws up, everyone pays. I missed many liberty nights when one persons space failed to pass field day inspection, so we all stayed behind on a Friday night to "help" the delinquent sailor.

    These young men and women signed up for the US Naval Academy to get an education and a career, not to go galavanting around town every night. Maybe they need to start standing port and starboard watches as well? Nothing like a good dog watch every other day to make you appreciate it when you do get liberty.
     
  6. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Squid, maybe the doc is onto something here. They will definitely find out more about what the "real" Navy is all about "haze grey and underway" than galivanting off the coast in a sailboat dressed in topsiders and khakis.

    I saw a post once that one could interpret that midn are being issued topsiders. That, I feel, if true, in itself would be enough of a reason to curtail the program.
     
  7. NorthernCalMother

    NorthernCalMother Member

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    "Don't recognize the name Bruce Fleming. He must be new. There has to be a list passed around the DC area by reporters of a list of profs guaranteed to say stupid things every time they are interviewed."

    Bruce Fleming is a longtime English instructor and author of "Annapolis Autumn." But I bet he IS on reporters' lists as a prof likely to stoke controversy. He's stirred the pot in the past, and while at least one other parent disagrees w/ me, I found his book snide, and self-aggrandizing. He seemed to find mid's shallow and robotic, which sure hasn't been my experience. As I read the book, I kept asking myself, "Why is he still THERE if he finds the place and the system so intolerable?" His remark in this article sounds as if he's marking time 'til his retirement kicks in.
     
  8. SubSquid

    SubSquid Member

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    Cap, Doc's absolutly correct. I didn't include MIDN Whiner's bellyache, hoping it was not representative of the Brigade. However, after a little more research and phone calls, the Sailing Center is not so much a "Leadership Lab" as much as it is a Preppie Yacht Club. Seems that a few Mids, who actually have prior sailing skills, manage to get the Luters to where they need to be while the rest of the "crew" is on suntan R&R, cruising off to Newport for more cruise activities.

    They should go back to the teak deck yawls I remember dodging (in a 9' sailing pram) on the Chesapeake many(read:very many) years ago. Learn how to holy stone a deck and how to use a marlinspike to splice a line, not how to make a Margaritta!

    Yeah, I think the SubSkipperSup may have it right so far but I would like to see a legitimate sailing program at Canoe U. Wooden Ships and Iron Men and YADA YADA YADA.
     
  9. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    God, I am getting old (and senile). Can't believe I didn't recognize his name. I have "Annapolis Autumn" around here somewhere. Or probably threw it away. Tried to read it a half dozen times. I agree with you completely.
     
  10. xchefmike

    xchefmike Member

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    Imho

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    " It is by no means enough that an officer of the Navy be a capable mariner. He must be that of course, but a great deal more. He must be a gentleman of refined manners, liberal education, punctilious courtesy, and the nicest sense of personal honor. "
    -John Paul Jones

    My thoughts are that the liberal education that the father of the Navy meant was for a well rounded individual. The focus is about producing a good officer, one that can grasp the larger picture as well as the insides of a nuclear reactor. As far as the personal honor goes, it comes from within and from whence they come. I see many post here and other places of kids already trying to work the system as in "if it was only a ________ offense should I tell them about it?" or how much information do I need to tell them about my __________ medical condition? Parents need to show the way in the begining, and Honor will follow. It may be learned at the USxA but it is probably already "burned into the program" of many a kid before they get there. As in everything every time we had a COC we got new rules and new liberties. I was on Ike when we set one of those endurance record cruises back in the 80's. (broken by now) So a little liberty more or less is no big deal. You live with it. The pendulum swings both ways, and there will be one thing for certain. There will be more to come. Semper Gumby to all and to all a good day.:thumb:
     
  11. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly with my distinguished Shipmates above, be they Almuni or otherwise. With the possible exception of the sailing program (see below), what the new Sup is doing is basically returning the place to what it was when I was there.

    I actually wish they'd make the place harder and perhaps even extend the commitment. I know I would have benefited from it in my day. Bottom line is that the Sup is right: we need to be training people to be leaders in the Naval Service during time of war, not limp-wristed pseudo-warrior intellectuals who only seem to play Navy on the weekdays.

    As for the English prof, who gives a damn what he thinks? He should be dragged before the Sup in chains and be ordered to shut up or get out. "Academic freedom" my ***; if he wants to speak crap, let him go to Berzerkley and do it. :mad:

    Sailing can, in fact, be a great leadership lab. However, as already stated, if it degenerates into a mere yacht club, then it's no good at all.
     
  12. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Okay, here is the litmus test. Let's assume the problem is that the administration feels that Midshipmen activities have become too diverse and are detracting from the mission of the Academy. Some have to be cut back. With that in mind, evaluate each dropped EC based on the following:

     
  13. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    Interestingly enough, I'm one of those nutballs who believes that every Midshipman should be SCUBA qualified prior to graduating. No, the fact that I was Scuba Club 1st LT during my 1/C year has nothing to do with it.

    Hell, I'd even be willing to throw in an Airborne requirement....
     
  14. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    From the Annapolis fish wrapper. Actually two pretty good articles.

    ___________________________________________________________________________
     
  15. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Continued:

     
  16. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Supts Letter to Parents

    Supts letter to parents:

     
  17. USNAParent

    USNAParent New Member

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    Well Zaph, it appears that scuba club may get little if any support. All of the ECs are being reevaluated and tiered and those down the line will get little support, either financially or for meeting times in the future. Also the "GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY" will be a thing of the past if the current administration has anything to do with it. Last night at the 2009 commitment dinner, it was requested to eliminate the slogan from the end of the singing of the Blue & Gold in respect for our fellow servicemen. I suspect that I will hear a very loud "GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY" at the first home football game. :smile: I can almost hear them laughing at WP now.
     
  18. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    I have read this thread, plus the two currently ongoing over at CC, with great interest. Mostly, I have been trying to glean some kind of OFFICIAL list of REAL changes before I comment further.

    I can tell you right now that I agree with most of the changes I have seen listed, and disagreed (with varying levels of intensity) with the rest. No one is perfect. The whole "BEAT ARMY" thing, however, is simply rediculous. As already mentioned by 69 at CC, I also guarantee you that the "BEAT ARMY!" that will emanate from the stands the next time the alumni are gathered to sing Blue and Gold will make the earth under Fowler's feet rumble. I hope I'm there to participate.

    As for the rest, if anyone could please provide me with some kind of official list of changes, I'd appreciate it. I tried Google, but all I found was the threads here and at CC, and a few repetitive news articles. Since I trust the mainstream media to accurately report the truth (especially concerning things military) about as much as I trust Osama Bin Laden to open a Jewish Center in New York, I'm not too inclined to go with that as my sole source.

    Thanks.
     
  19. xchefmike

    xchefmike Member

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    ??? how will the large corporate donors react???

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    So much of the budget of USNA is from outside sources(large corporate donors, NAAA, Alumni, and charitable endowments) More than many people actually know about. Wesley Brown field house would not have been built without outside funding, as well as the sailing programs 44's and many too numerous to name. Will these wonderfull and generous companies and individuals open their checkbooks if they feel as though they are being left out or if their EC was taken away. (most have ties to USNA through a personal history or a family member) ???
    EXAMPLE:#1 Will the CEO of _____________ Corp. Class of ______ continue to generously give XXX thousands of $$$ if they took away his beloved_______ EC. The EC that gave him a chance to decompress during that difficult XX year.
    EXAMPLE:#2 Will Mrs. _________ (WHO BY THE WAY IS WORTH 9 FIGURES)mother of _____ class of ____ who's daughter played_______ and was a member of _______ continue to give?????

    I wonder???????
     
  20. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    Frankly, I wish it hadn't been. They should have just renovated Halsey or just knocked it down and built a new one. USNA does not need TWO field houses.

    The land that Wesley Brown is being built on could have been put to better use building shipboard simulators or something more practical, as well as less imposing.
     

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