Changes at USNA

[USNA69]

Donations

Most of the large personal donors are there because they understand the Academy. They have seen the pendulim swing many times before and know that it will swing again. They know the military system and respect the right of the Supt to lead as he sees fit. Lockheed Martin could care less. Most corporate sponsorers see it as a duty.

For the others, for every shallow parent who knee jerkingly withdraws his or her pledge, there is a crusty old alumni who loves the change and doubles his.

I seriously doubt if potentiial changes in contribution levels either contributed to the decision making process or will effect the outcome.

 

[Zaphod]

For the others, for every shallow parent who knee jerkingly withdraws his or her pledge, there is a crusty old alumni who loves the change and doubles his.

Preach it, Brother.

Besides, if their support is so shallow, who wants it anyway?

 

[xchefmike]

Good points, I see what Z, and 69 mean. I have had some experience in raising funds for scholarships drives in the local community, and although there is always the folks who are level headed about changes in the administration and policies, however, that said, Don't fool yourself and be surprised about some people with VERY DEEP pockets having issues and I have personally seen some of the largest donors (Corporate Fortune 100 and private) have hissy fits over some perceived slights.
I personally agree with most of the Supes changes and see the logic in the ones I dont agree with. I just raised the issue as a point to ponder and time will tell of the net effect.
I still see many layers and many subtleties of this quote I stated earlier.
" It is by no means enough that an officer of the Navy be a capable mariner. He must be that of course, but a great deal more. He must be a gentleman of refined manners, liberal education, punctilious courtesy, and the nicest sense of personal honor. "
-John Paul Jones

He must have been one great individual.

 

[USNA69]

You know, one of the few things I was getting lit up about during this whole thing was that there would no longer be any official support for mids going to away games. Then i started thinking. I go to away games. Mids on MOs go to away games. Mids on MOs go to away games and then attend the game in civies. Mids on MOs go to away games and abuse their priviledges. Maybe they do need to be reined in. Have no idea how bad the problem, but it does exist.

And I do hope they figure out some way for the mids to get out of mandatory study and go to Alumni Hall on Wed night and cheer on the BBall team. They need it.

 

[USNA69]

He must be a gentleman of refined manners, liberal education, punctilious courtesy, and the nicest sense of personal honor. "
-John Paul Jones

This is the third time I have seen this quote. I don't have my dictionary in front of me, but 'liberal' has more than one meaning. Back in JPJ's day, since they didn't have Democrats and college consisted of simply studying the classics, he was most likely refering to "a lot of". Now we have to simply decide the "lot of" relationship between tooting a tuba and learning leadership on a YP.

 

[Zaphod]

he was most likely refering to "a lot of".

Almost certainly. Either that, or "widespread". It certainly wasn't what passes for "liberal" or "liberal arts" today, which consists (in part) of hating everything having to do with the military.

Generalization? Yeah, probably. I'm sure that there's at least one liberal out there who doesn't think that the U.S. Army is comprised entirely of torturers and that the U.S. Navy isn't comprised entirely of sexual harassers. Damned if they're in any position of power, though.

What a shocking thought: Get your ass into the Hall and STUDY during STUDY PERIOD. Gee! What a concept! Wish I'd done it when I was there. I'd be driving submarines right now instead of regretting NOT having studied!

I love your "tooting a tuba" line, too.

 

[xchefmike]

I too mean Liberal in the sense of much or a great amount. What I am trying to say that it is the breadth of the education, not just wires, steam and
P-rades. A background that has the width, as well as the depth. These future leaders will see many foreign lands. Many current admirals have contemporaries in foreign lands that they met many years ago as midshipman due to their participation in a EC club or organization that was sent overseas as the "face" of the academy. These relationships build multi-national cooperation and goodwill as well. I will have to find the article but I remember something to the effect that a current certain admiral was recently working with another Navies admiral as part of a multi-national exercise as part of CNO's 1000 ship Navy and the part that is relevant is that the two had met decades ago when our Adm. had traveled there as part of a club from USNA. I just thought it was a point to ponder in the current environment.

Also train them all to shoot well and keep it a ongoing annual or even a Triennial requirement. It does not take long to forget how to clear a jammed round or even to remember how to correctly use the safety.

 

[jamzmom]

I'm trying to get my brain around this issue. What exactly are they cutting? I've heard too many educated guesses (not from you guys) & would like to see some facts. Someone told me they are cutting the sailing? That can't be so. Let 'em cut out the Salsa dancing I say! That only gets kids into trouble. Seriously, whats the real scoop?

 

[USNA69]

Jeez, why do you need facts in order to jump in and offer an opinion? No one else has any.

In the past few years, youngster summer training has consisted of a couple of weeks on YPs, a couple of weeks sailing one of the 44s up to the NE, and a couple of weeks "observing" on a Navy ship and maybe another event, not sure. I think from now on the summer sailing will go away and the mids will concentrate only on the "haze gray and underwway". I have not heard anything, rumor or otherwise that the 44s will not still be used for plebe summer training, offshore varsity racing, or the sailing squadron. The sailing squadron used to be nothing more than varsity offshore racing crews during the off season. It would qualify as sports participation for intramural or varsity sports. Not positive it is staying but haven't seen anything otherwise.

Since EC participation is primarily during afternoon mandatory sports, some have been eliminated. Habitat is the only one I have definitely seen rumors. I guess also that the total numbers of ECs that an individual can participate in simultaneously is also being reduced.

They have eliminated movement orders and funding for mids to go to away football games. Funding was provided for by NAAA ticket sales and contributions.

They have eliminated some spirit events, Army specifically.

They have eliminated a Halloween Concert in the Chapel which started a couple of years ago.

And mandatory meals from Sunday evening through Friday nite.

Additionally, three hours of mandatory study hour 5 nites per week for upper two classes and 6 nites for bottom two classes.

These are 90% from rumors and there are probably more

Anyone, please feel free to jump in and correct or add.

 

[subskipper]

I'm trying to get my brain around this issue. What exactly are they cutting? I've heard too many educated guesses (not from you guys) & would like to see some facts. Someone told me they are cutting the sailing? That can't be so. Let 'em cut out the Salsa dancing I say! That only gets kids into trouble. Seriously, whats the real scoop?

I recall that the sailing program was resurrected some years ago. It had apparently atrophied. Management's new position was that naval officers should know how to sail. Sailing should be a core skill. Not so much for the development of the skill itself, but rather because there are a lot of other things you learn when you learn to sail. And those things are applicable to the profession.

 

[jamzmom]

And those things are applicable to the profession.

Welcome Subskipper. Glad to have another Navy guy in the house. I quoted you on the above as I think its important as well. But then again, I hear alot of sea stories about the whys of Navy guys needing to learn how to "drive the big boat". MSC guys must be a little competitive & are teaching the Cadets at sea much of the same.

 

[SubSquid]

Wow!

Now I have to watch what I say! I still have green carpet fibers embedded in my body from spending so much time on said carpet in front of the Skippers, of several BubbleBoats, for my zealous stretching of the "On Liberty" guidelines for proper Enlisted Behavior.

Skip, since you have included the most famous photo of the "Father of Naval Nuclear Power" as your avitar, I'm assuming that you may have had one of his famous "Ensign Interviews" at the begining of your career. Probably one of the more stressful moments in your life.

Welcome Aboard, eh, sir! You are joining some very fine folks: JAMZ is the very best at seeing things clearly, RetNavyHM really does have all of the answers; USNA69 has filled these threads with brilliant commentary and wise countenance; Zaphod is as wise but loves to throw gas on lit fires. Zap and 69 have both admitted to having been Submariner Wannabees. Can't be all bad for an Airdale and a Skimmer!

Now back to the thread:

In an earlier posting regarding the Sailing Center I wrote:

...I am a sail-sailor too and understand the lessons that sailing teaches: An enduring knowledge of the power of current, wind, and weather on a ship/boat in the ocean; The need to look over the horizon and close aboard for the hazzard that may cause harm to your ship; The need to issue and take orders with confidence and resolve to manuver your craft in all circumstances.

I think that we all agree that mastery of a sailing craft can be one of the most beneficial lessons learned as a sailor and officer. From my knowlege of the situation, it seems that the "Leadership Lab" was co-opted and became the Canoe U Yacht Club. I believe that a successful program is necessary to teach the fundamentals of sailing and leadership to the Brigade. It may be possible, with sufficient Alum input, to produce a curriculum that would accomplish these valuable goals. What do you think it would take, eh, sir?

 

[USNA69]

Again, all rumors. Impossible to get any facts. The only thing that I have heard that is definitely scrubbed is the Youngster summer sailing cruise. I don't think it was deleted for being bad training per se, but due to the fact that it ate into the valuable underway haze gray time. Their two weeks on Naval vessels had become basically an observation "tour".

 

[subskipper]

I'm not an alum, but I'm close to someone who is at Annapolis now. And of course I worked with many graduates during the course of my career. I know someone who recently did a Youngster cruise in the sailboats and still had time for significant underway time, and was assigned duties in a division.

I'm not a great saiboat sailor myself, but it certainly appears to me that sailing one of those 44's is bound to teach a lot.

Oh, and my interview with Rickover lasted about one minute. He swore at me, threw me out, and accepted me. There are much better stories around.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

can anyone explain the sailing situation in plain English?
What is/was "Youngster summer sailing cruise" and what is "gray time" ??

what is replacing the youngster cruise?

Not being Navy - I am confused

 

[subskipper]

can anyone explain the sailing situation in plain English?
What is/was "Youngster summer sailing cruise" and what is "gray time" ??

what is replacing the youngster cruise?

Not being Navy - I am confused

I'll do the best I can. Youngster cruise takes place in the period after the plebe year. Traditionally the mid is sent out to an operating navy ship where they live the life of an enlisted person. That means wearing dungarees and doing technical and manual labor. They live the life of a Petty Officer. The experience is supposed to give perspective on shipboard life and specifically the life of the enlisted personnel they will some day supervise. It looks like the resurrection of the sailing program may have shortened some of these cruises. The sailing program was beefed up such that many mids had (have?) the opportunity to sail one of the Academy's big 44 foot sailboats up to Rhode Island, or south to Charleston, or perhaps just around the Delmarva Peninsula. I think that the recent objections to the sailing program center around the time that they may steal from the traditional Youngster cruise experience.

"Gray time" would be time spend underway. The exterior paint color of US Navy surface ships is "Haze Gray." Thus the expression "Haze gray and underway." My favorite US Navy paint color is the color we paint most of the interior of submarines - "Clipper Blue." It's actually a light green.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

OK so it seems that while the Youngster summer sailing cruise is a great leadership experience it is a "cruise" and the powers that be would like to replace it with more "relevant" training.
The pendulum swings. got it.

I thought that color was called "Battleship Gray" - same color (and probably the same paint) the porch of the beachhouse we summered in was painted - "back in the day".

 

[jamzmom]

Wonder if any changes or cuts will be made to NROTC kids summer cruises. USNA could be spawning some ideas in the other programs. Sure hope not. Guess I'm just thinking out loud here. Will have to keep some ears and eyes to see what happens.