Changes to AROTC?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by abrownlths, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. abrownlths

    abrownlths Member

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    Hello,

    So I've been hearing a lot recently from some of my fellow cadets that's just arrived back from LDAC that alots changing. First, we will be taking a lot more tests and one said the GRE, also we will discontinue doing combat drills.What else will we be learning in MS Is and II's class?? Second, that FTXs and Lead Lab will be discontinued due to the fact that the Army ROTC program will be focused less on this due to peace time. Third, some new programs for MS IIs and MS IIIs will be made, some program called CIET and LDAC will be replaced. Fourth, that CULP will be streamlined and some what mandatory for contracted cadets. So has anybody else heard the same or anything else of this nature. For clarification I'm a contracted STEM major that's going to be a MS II. One of my biggest thoughts is how the Army is going to implement all of these programs with budget cuts and massive troop declines in the not so foreseeable future.
     
  2. nofodad

    nofodad Member

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    ch-ch-ch-changes...

    Join the club...DS is a rising MSIII and will have the benefit of guinea pighood. Sure to be some rocky times as the program is reinvented, and rather abruptly. A terrific opportunity to test your skills of adaptation.
     
  3. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Sounds like you've covered most that has either been written or passed through the rumor mill. Being a rising MS2 you will have a front row seat to the changes over the next few years. Be thankful that you are not a MS3 that will be the test subjects for all these new programs, at least you'll have a year for them to hopefully work out some of the gremlins. Next year's MS4's may be walking around for a while with a "What are we supposed to be doing now" look on their faces.

    I foresee a lot of briefings and meetings the start of the school year. Orientation should be interesting this fall.
     
  4. Thompson

    Thompson Member

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    I suppose the entire school year will be interesting to see how it unfolds since I'm sure training programs have been recycled over the years.

    +1 to nofodad, regarding ability to adapt.

    My MSIV from last school year told me that there's going to be some sort of mandatory summer training (something like LTC/CIET) - these rumors still true?

    ... I'm hoping not. I can lose a month to CULP, but anything more I'm not sure how employers feel for internship durations ...
     
  5. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    +1 on the internship problem. Moving forward a lot of these cadets will be going the reserve/guard route making an internship all the more improtant. My hope is cadet command understands this and plans accordingly.
     
  6. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    This is something Jcleppe and I mentioned up on another thread.

    With what appears to be the direction CC is going, future cadets may have to commit their summer time to training or internships/CULP every year. This might not be viable for some or what some people want so that could reduce the number of ROTC cadets to begin with.

    ROTC appears to be heading to a year around program, although the actual training will take place in the summer instead of during the school year.
     
  7. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    I completly agree with this:
    ROTC appears to be heading to a year around program, although the actual training will take place in the summer instead of during the school year.

    But the cost will be big.... AROTC will have the cost of transportation, food, lodging and will need to pay them. This is going to be a very interesting next couple of years for sure.
     
  8. k2rider

    k2rider Member

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    Peace time? I keep hearing that term thrown around but I'd say these times are anything but peace time. We're back in Iraq, can't find our way out of Afghanistan, North Korea is making threats to bomb us with a nuclear bomb, Iran is running smack and the Ukraine situation gets dicier all the time.
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    They could take a que from the AF and just stop paying the cadets for summer training. CC has already cutback the payment amount for CULP.

    I seems like they are trying to follow more the West Point model of Academic and Leadership during the school year and training during the summer. The issue with that is a lot of ROTC cadets will be going Reserve and none get the full ride that WP cadets receive. This could be a financial burden for some cadets, not having the option to work over summer.

    I guess time will tell as they shake all this out.
     
  10. abrownlths

    abrownlths Member

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  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I don't think this article was meant as rumor, you won't see many follow up articles since these decisions have already been made, now they are just going through the process of implementing the new system, cadets were briefed at LDAC on these same points.
     
  12. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    Off topic, but you know, it's funny that Cadet Command didn't publish anything when they decided not to close some of the programs on that list. Imagine the difficulties in recruiting when people are still under the impression that those programs are on the chopping block.
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    A lot of scrambling on the part of the programs that didn't shut down I would imagine.
     
  14. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    Absolutely. DS's is one of those schools. It's been an odd year.
     
  15. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    This is from last week, Under Secretary of the Army, Brad Carson visits Fort Knox. He did not get to see the gold.

    At Cadet Command, Brig. Gen. Peggy Combs indicated a similar issue, with very few changes having been made in the Cadet Command business model, since 1916. She said cadet command staff is also looking at ways to leverage technology, and build more flexibility into the way it conducts business.

    Carson asked for more information about the Order of Merit List used for Cadet career placement. He questioned why a student as state school with a 3.5 GPA, would be rated higher than a student from an Ivy League school with a 3.0 GPA.

    Combs explained that while the GPA is currently the single most important factor for Cadet placement on the Order of Merit List, she hopes to change that next year. She said the GPA would still be important, but other cognitive tests such as the Miller Analogy test, the Collegiate Learning Assessment (CLA+), and the Graduate Record Exam, will be used in 2016, as part of a pilot program. The statistics from the pilot program will be compared with the previous standards to see how much, if any, difference the new standards have on where a Cadet ends up on the Order of Merit List.

    Combs told Carson that more emphasis is being placed on students who study science, technology, engineering and math subjects.


    http://www.army.mil/article/130326/...eadership_programs_to_Under_Secretary_Carson/
     
  16. abrownlths

    abrownlths Member

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    I think this is completely fair. My major is Aerospace Engineering, which as a side note the OML classifies as "Space Travel", and the fact that other people in my battalion are weighted higher due to their communications major I think is complete nonsense. I hope the program changes and for the better.
     
  17. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I agree, changes should be made. The current 40% GPA ranking led to a lot of cadets choosing majors they would otherwise not selected for fear of losing too much ground on the OML. Some would call this gaming the system, but when it's the system they are handed what do they expect.

    Before they changed the branching model last year there was a Dead Zone, sometimes a large one for several branches. If a cadet wanted Aviation or Infantry they needed to be either in the top 20% or the top of the bottom 50% to have any chance at getting those branches. There are a lot of Comm and Gen Ed majors in Aviation right now. If you wanted either of those branches and wanted to better your chances, you did what you felt needed to get the highest GPA you could.

    I'm not saying that all cadets did this, there are many that majored in History, Poly Sci and other LA degrees that did so because it's really what they wanted, these majors are not always a gimme when it comes to GPA either, depends on the school.

    The current program made it hard to convince cadets to stay in STEM majors. Changes in this thinking will help recruit more STEM majors now that they don't see it as a death blow to their OML. Engineering majors will need to remember that the GRE can be tough on engineers since their curriculum often does not include a lot of subjects included in the basic GRE.

    All in all I see this as a positive step forward, I'm glad they have planned to phase this program so that current cadets that have completed the program under the old system can graduate and commission. New opportunities await the younger cadets.

    Now if they can just figure out how to run a summer training program in hot weather without cancelling half of it, they'll be on the right track.

    For those that longed for LDAC at Ft. Lewis, it's in the mid 80' here again for another week.
     
  18. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    It appears the the Army has taken the same misguided approach as as Higher Education in determining who will be the most successful in their new endeavor.

    Non-standardized grading + standardized testing ^= valid measurement of adaptive thinking nor of skilled problem solvers.

    I think the most that should be taken away from the collegiate transcript is whether the cadet has a general aptitude towards certain disciplines that are useful to the army.

    Good grades (above average for the institution) in calculus and physics and chemistry may indicate that the cadet could fit well into an engineering brigade. I've met people with 4.0 engineering degrees who couldn't adapt their skills to the simple task of cooking a frozen pizza (didn't realize he had to remove it from the box and shrinkwrap). Granted this guy had multiple patents to his name before from summer internships before he graduated, so he is more likely to be able to figure out how to blow up/reconstruct a bridge than a Criminal Justice major.

    A CJ major who does above average at his/her institution probably has a better insight about dealing with institutional behavioral issues (that s/he might have to deal with in a brig) than a Comp Sci major.

    Point here is that the academic part of an education is valuable to the Army to the extent that the education is relevant to the specific task at hand. Having an OML within a set of academic disciplines related to Branches benefiting from those skills is valuable. Comparing Computer Science skills to CJ skills for an Infantry slot doesn't necessarily make sense as neither have a direct bearing on the majority of the task at hand. Perhaps in Infantry, the PT (and other more specialized physical examination) testing should have a greater bearing on OML as it is the most physical branch of the bunch.

    And what does the result of a standardized test tell you about an officer??? I'm sure filling in bubbles makes you a more dynamic problem solver...

    I'm sure someone's career is benefiting from all the useless changes to the OML. :wink:
     
  19. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    goliedad,

    Again you make great points. The GRE and other standardized testing is the one part of this overhaul that concerns me.
     
  20. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    Standardized testing is not going to fix anything - possibly just mess the system up even more. DS can crack a test no problem, has been doing it for years and has the academic transcript to match. The academic ability only goes so far, in my opinion, in making a good leader. Show me a standardized test that can measure the human factors that create a great leader and then maybe I'll buy into this change. Completely agree with goaliedad tho about the bubbles - its a great skill that every officer should have:rolleyes:
     

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