CIET - Short report from 1st Regiment

lol when I read his letter to his Dad, 06 reserves and my oldest son 03 AD they both were annoyed by his lack of discomfort. They both remarked that the letter sounded just like the ones he wrote home from summer camp when he was 10.
 
I heard this week they learn the words to Kumbaya and how to make the perfect Smores.......Wait....they got to go to a Concert, I thought they only did that during SERE-C School after they learned to make Lanyards.

Sounds like they're having a good time.
 
Jcleppe said:
I heard this week they learn the words to Kumbaya and how to make the perfect Smores.......Wait....they got to go to a Concert, I thought they only did that during SERE-C School after they learned to make Lanyards.

Sounds like they're having a good time.
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Just talked to my son's girlfriend who actually received a phone call from my son at CLC yesterday. So it turns out the CLC cadets were able to go to the concert as well **AND EVEN DRINK BEER** as part of the Army's birthday celebration. The concert was on Day 10 of CLC. I have no details but my son told his girlfriend that CLC so far "was easy". They did get to shoot several different types of fully automatic weapons and that has been the highlight of CLC so far for my son.
 
Has anyone heard if there is any type of graduation ceremony? Parade? Any reason for parents to travel to Fort Knox for the end of CIET?
 
k2rider said:
Just talked to my son's girlfriend who actually received a phone call from my son at CLC yesterday. So it turns out the CLC cadets were able to go to the concert as well **AND EVEN DRINK BEER** as part of the Army's birthday celebration. The concert was on Day 10 of CLC. I have no details but my son told his girlfriend that CLC so far "was easy". They did get to shoot several different types of fully automatic weapons and that has been the highlight of CLC so far for my son.
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I didn't believe this at first because of how strict USACC has always been in regards to alcohol, but I just spoke with a friend of mine who is cadre at Knox and they said the cadets will also stop training on the 4th and can have beer there too. What a joke of a course and complete waste of time and taxpayer money, sh!t like this shows just how jacked up our priorities are.
 
I am surprised about the beer also - sure hope they had to be 21 and had to pay for it. My son said he did not go because they had to pay for the concert and also buy their own dinner....he's a bit of a tight wad.
 
DS survived the Gas Chamber. Last contact with him he was packing a Ruck to go into the field, however, they did not tell them for how many days/nights. He did not think that this was the 8 day experience. They had completed First Aid training and some Map training, which he has already had, so hopefully he learned something new or at least it was a good refresher.
PT, although not every day, was reported to be "a bit of a challenge", so at least it is a good work out!
This mom got spoiled with the nightly texts, and now have not had contact since Monday night - I know, I know...and no I am not a helicopter parent, mostly just curious about what they are doing!
 
Just heard from my DD in CIET 1st Regiment. They were in Tent City last night and a major storm started taking down tents. Started doubling and tripling up tents (40 in a tent now) and 8 tents came down and people were getting hurt by falling poles. The evacuated the tent city and came back to the barracks in the middle of the night. Will take them back to the field each day for the next three days but stay nights in the barracks until their three day field exercise. Expecting additional thunderstorms and hot 90's temperatures. She said three more were taken to the hospital due to the heat. Previously, they cancelled night navigation due to the weather. Just like last year....Weather continues to be a factor at Ft. Knox as more lost training classes and weather related injuries than ever occurred at Fort Lewis aka JBLM. With JBLM drawing down 11K, should never have been moved.
 
Cadet command has successfully run LTC (formerly known as "Basic Camp") at Ft. Knox since the 1980's. The weather-related issues they've experienced recently have nothing to do with their ability, or perceived inability, to put on a training event for cadets, and I'm fairly tired of hearing it, especially from people with little to no practical experience beyond the what they've heard from their kids. This isn't directed solely at you, Michael G, but at everyone who routinely jumps on the bandwagon regarding JBLM vs Knox.
 
Quite frankly, I think it's great that these kids are having to deal with some adversity and trying conditions. That's what the real world, especially the world of combat, is all about. Learning to adapt and overcome, then having to make decisions when plans A & B don't go as planned. It's unfortunate that the heat is effecting some cadets but getting through those conditions is an accomplishment for the others. My son dealt with these same conditions in Guyana last year at CULP. There was no "going back to camp" and nothing was ever cancelled or modified due to the stifling heat.
 
k2rider said:
Quite frankly, I think it's great that these kids are having to deal with some adversity and trying conditions. That's what the real world, especially the world of combat, is all about. Learning to adapt and overcome, then having to make decisions when plans A & B don't go as planned. It's unfortunate that the heat is effecting some cadets but getting through those conditions is an accomplishment for the others. My son dealt with these same conditions in Guyana last year at CULP. There was no "going back to camp" and nothing was ever cancelled or modified due to the stifling heat.
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I tend to agree, I do believe CC has become over cautious regarding exposing cadets to the environment.
DS attended Knox 2 summers in a row and was at Fort Benning before he went last year and never had any problems.

I also believe that if cadets cannot handle the heat/bugs/rain and PT that maybe they aren't in the right profession.
Let's face it, they are not training officers the same way they used too, for better or worse.

My opinion which is probably only worth 1 cent instead of 2.
 
Jcc123 said:
Cadet command has successfully run LTC (formerly known as "Basic Camp") at Ft. Knox since the 1980's. The weather-related issues they've experienced recently have nothing to do with their ability, or perceived inability, to put on a training event for cadets, and I'm fairly tired of hearing it, especially from people with little to no practical experience beyond the what they've heard from their kids. This isn't directed solely at you, Michael G, but at everyone who routinely jumps on the bandwagon regarding JBLM vs Knox.
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This isn't solely directed to Jcc123, but I've done my 33 years not counting 4 in High School as a kid...so I've I'm not a novice on the subject and perhaps have more experience than those still serving. This was politics that moved the location. Norm Dicks from Washington retired in Jan 2013 and he had carried a lot a weight on military issues (Ranking member on both the Committee on Appropriations and the Subcommittee on Defense) and was now gone. Kentucky politicians took LDAC away from WA State...making the case that they had better facilities than the older ones at JBLM after losing an armor unit to Ft Benning. Proposed drawn downs have JBLM losing an additional 11K and Ft. Knox 10K....so they both now have extra capacity and modern facilities. Irregardless, the weather (heat index & extreme weather) has and will always be a major factor of lost training at Ft Knox. Facts already point that out.
 
My son was also in the Tent City last night. He was convinced he was in a tornado. I have no problem with them being moved to the barracks and not out exposed to severe thunderstorms while in a tent. I am very hopeful that the training taking place during the day will still be the same (barring any more severe thunderstorms).
 
If a cadet quits because the heat is unpleasant, than that is the fault of the cadet. If they get a heat injury, that means that either they chose not to take care of themselves or their cadre failed to give them the proper tools/instruction to do so. In the latter, cadet command is obviously at fault, while the former says to me that a cadet can't follow instructions, which I think is a much bigger deal than not being equipped to deal with heat. But we don't really know which is the case. I suppose the third option is that some people are physiologically unable to handle heat, which I don't think is true. Or the way the training is set up doesn't give cadets time to acclimate. The point is, we don't really know where to lay the blame.
 
OSUT has been at Ft. Benning for years, no lack of heat and humidity and the training continues as well as AirBorne, Ranger School, Armor, and others. SERE-C at Ft Rucker in the summer is no picnic yet they seem to make it through.

Many cadets go to CST at Ft. Knox thinking they'll waltz through, what surprising is the number that choose not to eat their MRE's for whatever reason (Not tasting good is one of my personal favorites) Drinking water is not enough, eating.....and eating everything they give you is just as important. Last years heat casualty that started all the hoopla was due to the cadet not eating (Trying to lose weight) and drinking the proper amount as well as trying to run the Land Nav Course. All of this adds up to disaster.

Ft. Knox is no different then many other Ft's....Bliss, Hood, Benning, Rucker, Polk just to name a few. Common sense goes a long way and there seems to be a lack of that during these training sessions. Ft. Lewis is not the OZ many think, the temp for this weekend will be in the 90's.

The move of LDAC to Ft. Knox has been in the works for years, ever since they moved Cadet Command from Ft. Monroe to Ft. Knox about 6 years ago, the idea has been to consolidate all the Cadet Training along with Cadet Command, Politics was a much smaller part of the equation.

There were many cadets last year that managed to complete and receive 300 plus scores on their APFT just before they ended the APFT in July. Many were not happy to see their efforts lost because some cadets could not prepare and maintain themselves in the heat.

The sad part in all this is that cadets have no consequences from dropping out because of the heat, they will all graduate with no effect on their OML. They won't have this luxury when they report for BOLC or some follow on school, if they're unable to complete the training they will be recycled, do this too many times and it will effect their career. Cadets should not be getting used to having a do over at CLC, it will only hurt them later on.
 
Improvise, adapt and overcome.... This phrase was drilled into us at MCRD from the moment we stepped onto the little yellow footprints. I do believe moving cadets and cadre from the tents to the barracks was likely a good move. I can see the headlines now... "Several cadets injured ( or worse) in freak windstorm/tornado". Talk about hell to pay.... Now on the heat issue, I fail to see why cadets are getting dehydrated, in many of the pictures posted on smugmug the cadets are wearing camelbacks and should have plenty of water. As for the MRE , (we called them Meals Rejected by Ethiopians) I don't recall them being that bad and certainly they have gotten better over the last 30+ years. I applaud the safety first attitude but the coddling has got to stop.
 
First, thanks for the short updates on the training! it is interesting reading and give great insight about what DS will be encountering later this week.

"Improvise, adapt and overcome...."
this past weekend's Father's Day events took me and the family past Washington's Crossing NJ/PA. My kids will surely attest that I review the events of Christmas 1775 each time. Heat was not the issue then. Washington's Army crossed the Delaware (a fast current at this point) during a winter storm, in a heavy ice flow, at night...all night... horses, cannon, people, all in over-sized row boats. Wet, cold, and tired after the crossing, the army, all volunteers who could have surely found reasons to go home, then marched 9 miles south to Trenton in snow. One or two died from exposure on the march. They arrived about dawn.
Then after all that, rather than regroup/sleep in, Washington's Army went on the offensive and stormed Trenton. Gutsy? nuts? one can not know. But that was one tough bunch.
 
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