Civil Air Patrol Recommendation Affect on Odds of Appointment

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Oranjoose, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Oranjoose

    Oranjoose New Member

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    This is a question that I'm sure only a small group of people will be able to answer. I received a Civil Air Patrol Recommendation from National Headquarters on the 7th. I was one of the 12 cadets selected for this recommendation. I know it was very competitive to receive the recommendation, but I don't know how much it helps. I'm wondering if anyone knows how much this can affect a person's chances for receiving an appointment. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    1. How much does making eagle scout help in receiving an appointment?
    2. How much does Billy Mitchell help in receiving an appointment?
    3. How much does being class president help in receiving an appointment?
    4. How much does being captain of the football team help in receiving an appointment?
    5. How much does anything help in receiving an appointment?

    I'm not being facetious. I'm trying to emphasize that the academies look at the WHOLE PERSON. Lets assume you received this recommendation and you have a 3.3gpa and 25-26ACT scores, and average EC participation, etc... I'd say that it probably won't help at all. On the other hand, if you have really high scores, high gpa, lot of EC and leadership, and are in a neck and neck run for an appointment with someone else who is similar..... Then the recommendation could be enough to tip the scale.

    It doesn't matter what the scenario; no one who asks any type of "What are my Chances" question is going to get an answer they like. Why? Simple.... "WE DON'T KNOW WHO YOUR COMPETITION IS". Even with the recommendation, they could be BETTER THAN YOU!!! No one here knows.

    Seems that some people think there is a magic pill out there. "IF" you have this accolade, leadership position, specific class, etc... that there's a guaranteed way to the academy. Unfortunately, there is NOTHING that guarantees an appointment. Because everyone is competing in different groups and categories for nominations and appointments, there is no way to guarantee anything. There will be some appointees that have a lower gpa or test scores than a candidate who doesn't receive an appointment. You compete at the district, state, and/or national level. Some also compete in other military categories like presidentials, ROTC, etc... We don't know who your competition is; therefor any accolade you have could make a big difference; or, it doesn't make any difference. Sorry, but that's the way it is. best of luck. mike....
     
  3. Packer

    Packer Member

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    The above is from the CAP website, which I would guess you are familiar with. From this, I would say it helps quite a bit. You are 1 of 12 to receive this honor. It was more competive to recive this than an Eagle Scout, Team Captain, Billy Mitchell, etc. You have to have a good supporting resume to receive this award, that resume along with the award is a big deal. No guarantee, obviously. Good Luck.
    From your previous post your 610 Math SAT score is a detriment but the statistics indicate that people get in with that score.

    CC, Your message is good but with all the yelling it is sometimes hard to understand you.
     
  4. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    PACKER. WHEN A PERSON WRITES IN ALL CAPS, THAT IS CONSIDERED YELLING.

    When a person writes certain "WORDS" in caps, and/or quotes, that is considered "EMPHASIS". There is a big difference. Especially in a forum where too many times people read what they want something to mean instead of what the writer intended. I do "EMPHASIZE" words. I am also somewhat long winded in many of my posts. But I also have a lower number of people coming back and re-asking me the same question over again because they didn't understand what I "MEANT".

    So, you can consider it yelling. It isn't. And if you take it personal, rude, etc... then that is your misinterpretation. It's not rude, personal, etc... In other words: CAPS is NOT yelling. ALL CAPS IS YELLING!!!

    Back on target: The quote you provide is true and informative. But it is in reference to being offered a spot at the Prep-School. The original poster didn't ask about going to the prep school. They asked if the nomination would increase their chances of receiving an "APPOINTMENT". (Notice emphasis, not yelling). The prep-school is a place for those who are usually shy in an academic area from receiving an appointment. In other words, if the individual has a 3.9gpa; AP/IB classes; etc... chances are slim to none with receiving an offer to the Prep-School. Even with the CAP recommendation. And if the poster had asked about the prep-school, then I would have asked more about his grades and mentioned the prep-school. But they specifically mentioned receiving an appointment. In that regard, it's impossible to say if the recommendation will be the "STRAW" that is needed to give him the appointment. We don't know the rest of his resume, and we definitely don't know his competition. mike....
     
  5. Packer

    Packer Member

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    CC, Thanks for the lesson that I knew was coming.

    Just a note, the OP didn't ask what his chances of getting into the academy were. He asked a specific question about a PARTICULAR award.
     
  6. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Oh and one more thing, I never take anything personal from someone I don't know. Hopefully, you don't either. No ill feelings on this end.
     
  7. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Packer; definitely no ill feelings. I agree. In an anonymous world like a forum, nothing should be taken seriously.

    But for what it's worth, my reply to the OP was specifically to the original question of:
    Notice I didn't capitalize it, but I did Bold it. He specifically asked if this recommendation would affect his chances. Mike...
     
  8. Oranjoose

    Oranjoose New Member

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    Let me clarify some things for you guys. From what I understand the section you quoted from the cap website isn't what I received. I was given a recommendation with no clear decision on where I will end up.

    Now, what I also understand is that certain activities or things a person does is given a certain amount of points depending on their importance to the Air Force Academy. I get what you are saying christcorp about the whole person evaluation method. I was just wondering if you knew how it compared to some of the other common credentials. That's one of the reasons why I mentioned how small amount of people that could answer my question. I'm sorry if I wasn't too clear.

    Packer, you clearly do your homework :smile: . I appreciate the encouragement.
     
  9. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Oranj: The point system isn't exactly the way you might think it is. There are 3 general categories. In those categories, everything falls into. The three categories are:
    1. Academics: 60% of your total score. It includes: Academic Composite High School or College academic performance, SAT or ACT scores. It can be somewhat subjective because of school profile, difficulty of classes, weighting of classes/grades, class ranking, etc....
    2. Leadership/EC/Athletics: 20% of your total score. It includes: Extracurricular Composite, Athletic participation, leadership position (scouts, school clubs, class officer, etc.), public/community involvement and work experiences. This too can be somewhat subjective. Were you just in scouts, or an eagle. Were you just in football or an all-state/captain/etc... Were you just in band or a section leader. Were you just in CAP or did you receive certain awards or recommendations like in your situation.
    3. Administrative in nature: 20% of your total score. It includes: Admissions Panel Faculty and staff review, candidate fitness assessment, Admissions Liaison Officer interview, and writing sample. This can also be subjective. No two teachers recommendations will be the same. No two ALO's are the same.

    So yes, your recommendation will definitely give you more points in the Leadership category compared to someone who was in CAP and didn't receive that recommendation. But what if there is another CAP applicant you are competing with who on the sports side of that same category was ALL-State, ALL-Conference, and Captain of the football team; and you were on the team and didn't have that extra. Do you think your EXTRA in CAP (Recommendation) might be a wash with their EXTRA in Football for being the captain?

    Do you see now how it's impossible to say the AMOUNT of AFFECT these awards, accolades, achievements, etc... provide.

    I will tell you with 100% certainty, that the recommendation gives YOU, and YOU ALONE, more points than you would have had if you didn't receive the award. Now; is that enough to receive an appointment? No one here knows, because we don't know all your points or the points of your competition.

    Now; Packer brought up the additional factor of the Prep-School. The academy definitely uses such recommendations in their decision in offering prep-school slots. But remember, prep-school is designed traditionally for those applicants who other than an academic area, are excellent candidates. If you happen to be a stellar candidate academically, then there is a slim chance you'd be offered a prep-school slot. But a stellar candidate academically, excelling in CAP (With your recommendation), etc... is definitely (COMPETITIVE). And that's the true word you should be thinking. The recommendation makes you MORE COMPETITIVE. How much more? Hard to say. I had an individual ask me if finishing all high school requirements a year early; holding a 3.98-3.99gpa; 31+ACT scores; and taking ALL COLLEGE classes in their senior year would make them extremely competitive. I definitely thought so. "At First". Until I realized they had NO SPORTS and very little leadership.

    Hopefully you can see how difficult of a question you are trying to ask. We know nothing else about your resume/application; we know nothing about your competition; and you want to know if getting this recommendation will affect your chances of receiving an appointment. Well YEA, it will. So will being in the band, scouts, soccer team, chess club, etc... How much it affects it,,,,, no one can tell you that. Even saying it helps a lot is misguided. Sorry for the novel, but your question isn't simple, and the answer isn't simple.
     
  10. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Very good explanation. The 610 Math SAT could possibly be an advantage in getting into the prep school. Should know in a month or so.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Oranjoose,

    JMPO, and than throw it in the circular filing cabinet.

    Be proud of your accomplishment, but do not assume it will be the make or break reason why an MOC will give you a nom, or you will get an appointment.

    You can't have tunnel vision in this process. This award is great, but bust the CFA in anyone section, and it is a 0 for points on the CFA.

    Do the math if both are 10% of the 100%, and you get 100% for EC (CAP), 0 for CFA, you still have only 50% of the points awarded.

    That other cadet who was in CAP with you, no award, but maxes CFA. Gets 50% for EC and 100% for CFA, equaling 75% of the points awarded.

    Highest score wins!

    Yes, this is very rudimentary example of the system, but you get the drift.

    Next yr., you will start to understand the finesse of every category issue, such as it is not only your cgpa, but the rigor of your course load, school profile, rank, etc. However, for now it is PAR = 60% of the WCS.


    For right now relish in the moment of the award, and build on it!
     
  12. pilot2b

    pilot2b Candidate Appointee

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    I'm a Civil Air Patrol cadet as well, so I know of the recommendation. I will emphasize that only 1 CAP cadet is going to be chosen for certain. Multiple are possible, but not guaranteed.
     
  13. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Sort of like the presidential nomination. More than 500 will receive a presidential nomination, but only 100 will receive an appointment using that nomination. Just like 4000+ individuals will get a congressional nomination, but when the dust settles, only 1057 appointments are going out this year.

    But this is not to minimize the CAP recommendation that Oranj received. As Pima said; you should be extremely proud of receiving it. And that is more points towards your TOTAL SCORE for an appointment than you had previously. Just reiterating that there is no way to say how many extra points or if it will make a significant difference. Not knowing your total package and score and more importantly your competition's total package and score, makes answering that question impossible. But definitely be proud of the recommendation. It's a tremendous accomplishment.
     
  14. Republic_Commando

    Republic_Commando Member

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    Congratulations from another CAP cadet!
     
  15. Oranjoose

    Oranjoose New Member

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    Haha I certainly hope so. My other academics are quite good though. I've had AP Calculus and College algebra at this point. In addition I have a 3.95 UW GPA and will graduate as the Salutatorian from my school. I hope I don't fit into that group that is too academically qualified for a prep spot.
     
  16. AFrpaso

    AFrpaso USAFA '17

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    Not sure if I'm allowed to post Precandidate or Candidate books here but they give the average statistics for appointees. Yes your GPA and class rank are competitive for the USAFA, but what do you mean too competitive for a prep spot? If you don't receive a direct appointment but you are too competitive for the prep spot does that mean you get nothing? Seems strange...
     
  17. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    That's pretty much it. Not saying that it's not possible, and steve (Flieger) can correct me if I'm wrong, because he has a lot more experience than I do, but I don't recall anyone with a 3.95+ type gpa getting into the prep-school. Unless they bombed the ACT/SAT. Or vice versa with a killer ACT/SAT and crap GPA.
     

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