Class of 2011 - Where They Came From ... Where They Are Headed

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by Whistle Pig, May 29, 2011.

  1. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    There is no denying that USNA is incredibly selective and competitive, especially in the admissions process. Conversely, it has probably the highest 4 year graduation rate of any college, university, institute, or service academy in the country. While some chaife at the observation, I stand by it. Anyone and everyone appointed who desires to graduate from USNA, can and will do so pending 3 things:

    I. They WANT to be there and graduate, i.e. motivation.

    II. They remain healthy and medically fit.

    III. They choose to behave, mostly meaning they will avoid alcohol and drugs.

    Note: There were even 8 in this class who graduated but were unable to receive a commission.

    Note #2: One frequent implication of these candidate/appointment/enrollment #s is that this class (or last's) are the most traditionally qualified and academically strongest. That would NOT be the case. Interestingly, as the applicant numbers have risen the past several admissions cycles (3 or 4 now, I believe), the "selectivity", at least academically, has declined. While only the admissions statisticians know for sure, this is undoubtedly due to the recent diversity push which has driven up candidate numbers while driving down traditional measures of candidacy strength.

    The primary point here is not to make erroneous assumptions based upon several traditional stats. And that the recent admissions process is not comparable to those of 4,5, or more years past. The staffing, marketing, materials, and resources are completely different.

    Now, for a brief, superficial summation of the recently graduated USNA Class of 2011 inducted on 27 June 2007 and experienced, literally, the longest Plebe year in USNA history due to leap year, induction date, and several other factors noted at the commencement/commissioning exercises:

    1. 12,003 applicants

    2. 3,827 applicants w/ an official nomination

    3. 1,893 applicant/nominees qualified scholastically, medically, physically

    4. 1,419 offers of appointment

    5. 1,212 accepted offers

    6. 1,202 actually inducted
    6a. Not sure of the number sent to NAPS and Foundation schools.

    7. 1,006 graduates

    8. 78% were top fifth in their HS class, 94% top 2/5

    9. 30% scored above 700 math and 23% verbal (31 or above on ACT

    10. 31% scored below 600/26 verbal and 16% math

    11. 21% were female

    12. 24% minority

    13. 7 grads were from foreign nations

    14. 1 Plebe classmate died while at USNA. Her Mid cover was the first-ever female cover placed atop Herndon in spring, 2008. She was honored as an honorary member of the Class of 2011.

    15. 1 Midshipman received a Rhodes scholarship; 9 Trident Scholars; 16 began grad study in their 1st class year;

    16. The "Anchor" was in 4th Company and received $1,005 for being last in the Order of Merit.

    17. Assignments were as follows:

    A. 225 Navy Pilot
    B. 58 Navy Flight Officers
    C.179 Surface Warfare
    D. 29 Surface Nukes
    E. 15 Surface/EDO
    F. 5 Surface/IPO
    G. 3 SWO/Oceanographers
    H. 3 SWO/Info Warfare
    I. 3 SWO/Intel Warfare
    J. 133 Subs (including 12 females ... a first for firsties!)
    K. 30 SEALs
    L. 14 Explosive Ordnance Disposal
    M. 260 USMC
    N. 9 Med Corps (Medical School)
    O. 1 Dental School
    P. 3 Supply Corps
    Q. 2 Intelligence
    R. 2 Information Warfare
    S. 3 Oceanography
    T. 6 Civil Engineering Corps
    U. 1 U.S. Army
    V. 1 U.S. Coast Guard
    W. 1 U.S. Air Force


    GO NAVY! BEAT ARMY! And fair winds and following seas to USNA Class of 2011! :thumb::spacecraft::tomcat::band::jump1::usa:

    P.S. Note #3 ... From these stats, one can readily see ... IF one becomes 3Qed, much of which may be "controlable" (if not easily, simply, or quickly/readily) ... and IF one obtains a nomination from any source, the odds improve rather astronomically!
     
  2. breadcrumbs

    breadcrumbs Member

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    Great synopsis Whistle Pig, thank you. So proud of 2011!

    Adding 1 more to your summation, 2011 were never granted overnights as Plebes. That changed the next year. Yes, I am an envious mom! :wink:
     
  3. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    I stand happily edified, Ms. breadcrumbs! :smile:

    Let me add one clarification to my own summary. I note ... "... One frequent implication of these candidate/appointment/enrollment #s is that this class (or last's) are the most traditionally qualified and academically strongest. That would NOT be the case. ..."

    In this, my "this class (or last's)", I am referring to the most recently admitted class, i.e. to be inducted in July 2011. The point illumining that in fact, the Class of 2011 (and others of past vintage), despite having fewer candidates, were in fact, more "selective" at least in using that term to suggest academically/scholastically qualified. And it would be erroneous to assume that simply because there are now more official candidates, that the quality of student is also rising. In fact, using traditional academic (and USNA) measures, the opposite is occurring, at least in the general appointment population. Only the USNA admissions statisticians know what the reality is among segments of the incoming classes. Unfortunately, while USNA chooses to tout these segments, they refuse to reveal specific stats for each, leaving all only to speculate about how those profiled statistics might apply to any specific individual. While not worthless, they become less and less descriptive and thus prescriptive. :confused:
     
  4. sjbd94

    sjbd94 Member

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    So is it true that if you qualify and get a nomination you have over a 75% chance of getting in? Because only 3000 get a nomination and then about 1500 meet all requirments then like 1000 get in. This doesn't seem like it is as hard as the 10% acceptance rate on college board because they count people that don't even get nominations. Please let me know if this is right.
    thanks
     
  5. osdad

    osdad Member

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    Yes, it's a piece of cake to get in...once you've been recommended and interviewed, passed a medical exam, met all of the academic, physical and leadership requirements to earn a 3Q, secured a nomination from the hundreds who apply to the very limited sources. Do all of that and you have a great chance. Fall even a little short in any area and you're going to plan B.

    So the reporting of an acceptance rate for a SA is different than a normal college. Imagine if Harvard made their applicants do a certain number of push-ups before including them in the statistics. That is what you're effectively doing.
     
  6. MIDNDAD

    MIDNDAD Member

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    This is one of those arguments where there never will be a winner or consensus. Common sense tells you that the probablities of addmittance decrease with a significant increase in applicants. 12,000 to over 19,000 in 4 years. Also, the the relative number of nominations is a realativley static number based on the constant numbers of MOC's. Other nomination sources may vary year to year but likly stay within a range. The quality of applicants issue is a who knows but would reflect society's changes for better or worse. Throw in a diversity quota system of some sort and you still have one of the toughest college admissions process in the nation.

    How USNA admissions relates to other elite institutions like the Harvards,or Stanfords of the world is nothing but interesting conjecture.
     
  7. MIHOSER

    MIHOSER Member

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    Having been through both the Ivy admission process and the USNA admission process, I can say they are both nerve-wracking, but very different.

    One big difference is the interview process. The Ivys use unpaid, volunteer interviewers, usually alumni, at least for the home-town interviews. The admissions value of the Ivy interview is questionable. They say it can't get you in, but it might keep you out. I was very impressed with the whole Blue and Gold interview process. Our B&G spent about 45 minutes with mom, dad and candidate, 1 hour with the candidate alone and then about a 15 minutes follow-up with all three again. Our B&G has obviously done 100s of interviews. He actually asked us to keep in touch if we needed any help. Not once did my child hear that from an Ivy interviewer.

    I agree with MIDNDAD that the relationship between USNA admissions and Ivy admissions is "nothing but interesting conjecture."
     
  8. sjbd94

    sjbd94 Member

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    I know it isn't easy but just doesn't seem as extreme as I thought. But if you secure a nomination and are physically fit is it safe to say you alhave a pretty good chance?
     
  9. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    So does USNA.:smile: BGOs are unpaid, volunteers, and often (but certainly not always) alums.

    I'm glad you had a good experience with your BGO. It can make a world of difference.
     
  10. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Depends on how you define "pretty good." In the "old days" of more than a few years ago, being triple Q'ed and having at least one nom gave you a really good shot at being offered an appointment. Now, there are very well qualified triple Q'ed candidates with multiple noms who are getting turndowns.

    A higher #of applicants means (generally) a higher # of qualified applicants and, with the same # of noms and the same # or slightly fewer spots, the odds aren't as good. However, there's nothing you can do about the odds -- you can only make yourself the best candidate possible.
     
  11. Craig

    Craig Member

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    How does one get SWO/INTEL versus just SWO and requesting INTEL later? My daughter's whole plan is to ultimately go INTEL. She showed me where one of the 1/C featured on Facebook was SWO/INTELL.
     
  12. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    2 points ...

    1. And the first is, you seem to have missed THE point, i.e. that as another noted, yea, pretty decent odds once one has past the medical, physical, and been deemed 3Qed, which is a relative number, i.e. it is graded on the curve, not an absolute WP number. And as virtually all will attest, it is toughern BLEEP to get to that point.

    2. And that's only 75% of the gig. One still has to compete for a nomination dependent mostly on geography and again, the relative strength of the candidate pool that admission season.

    3. And btw, in addition to the volunteer interviewing done by VOLUNTEER BGOs ... Many/perhaps most MOCs and U.S. Senators also use VOLUNTEER INTERVIEWERS.

    Of course the Ivy vs. SAs admission discussion is purely intellectual. But it is not uninformed. btw, the notion that SAs are just "Ivies w/ push-ups" sorely misses the mark, imo. And that is not to demean or diminish the complexity, competitiveness, and stress of trying to get into Harvard. Not at all. Simply as noted by many, me included. It is a totally different process beyond having to be able to "score" on the standardized tests, excluding exceptions.

    And I'll stick w/ my contention. Take a random sample of HYP kids ... and an equal random sample of SA kids. WAY more of the SA kids'd be accepted in the Ivy than the HYP sample'd be appointed by the SAs. This is a literal no-brainer. Why? Yep, push-ups, etc. for sure. And a whole bunch'd be excluded for medical reasons.

    And lastly, remember the orginal contention: Admission/Appointment AND Graduation/Commission. Again, virtually ALL the SA kids'd finish at Brown ... but a whole slew of that 100 sample, even IF they managed appointment'd never graduate. Let's get honest and real about this "hypothetical" discussion. The answer is quite clear, me thinks. :thumb:

    Unless ... one wants to be PC about this one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011

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